Who says one organization today is "The True Church"

[AmateurPianist]

You asked me what I thought, and I told you.

Do you believe that the Church started by Jesus would teach lies or be destroyed?

Since you ask.

I do not believe teaching untruth constitutes “the gates of hell prevailing”. In a similar vein, neither do I believe that gross misconduct constitutes “the gates of hell prevailing”.

I believe the verb prevail indicates a status at the end of the age. Just like how it is normally used today.

I do believe that if the church ceased to exist, then that would constitute the gates of hell prevailing. In that sense I would not be a restorationalist who believes the church ceased to exist for a time period and then Jesus brought it back (always in the restorationalist’s organization of course). I do not believe that the church existing in multiple organizations is the same as the church ceasing to exist.

While I am at it.

I do not believe that the church existing in multiple organization in competition with each other, proclaiming contrary doctrines, anathematizing each other (at least in Spirit) is within the boundaries of how Jesus designed the church. I personally believe that it is likely that Jesus will fix this before the end of the church age, however I can not prove this and will not attempt to impose this belief on others.

Since you ask, that is the way the Scripture reads to me.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Since you ask.

I do not believe teaching untruth constitutes “the gates of hell prevailing”. In a similar vein, neither do I believe that gross misconduct constitutes “the gates of hell prevailing”.

I believe the verb prevail indicates a status at the end of the age. Just like how it is normally used today.

I do believe that if the church ceased to exist, then that would constitute the gates of hell prevailing. In that sense I would not be a restorationalist who believes the church ceased to exist for a time period and then Jesus brought it back (always in the restorationalist’s organization of course). I do not believe that the church existing in multiple organizations is the same as the church ceasing to exist.

While I am at it.

I do not believe that the church existing in multiple organization in competition with each other, proclaiming contrary doctrines, anathematizing each other (at least in Spirit) is within the boundaries of how Jesus designed the church. I personally believe that it is likely that Jesus will fix this before the end of the church age, however I can not prove this and will not attempt to impose this belief on others.

Since you ask, that is the way the Scripture reads to me.

Jesus told the apostles that he would be with them until the end of time.

In Acts, we see that the Church is unified and hierarchical.

At what point do you think it was permissible for an individual or group to go against the teachings of this Church?

 

[AmateurPianist]

Jesus told the apostles that he would be with them until the end of time.

In Acts, we see that the Church is unified and hierarchical.

At what point do you think it was permissible for an individual or group to go against the teachings of this Church?

When the church is wrong.

 

[Monte1945]

I don’t think there is one true chruch from what the scriptures say:

" And I have sheep from another fold, and they hear my voice and come unto me".

“do not stop them, for he who is not against us is for us”…

When I say not one true church… I mean not one church which has the
truth of God within it…

Pesonally I belong to three different christian denomimations at the same time.
And I have no problem with it… many others in my family do but I don’t.

I belong to the Independant Baptist church
to the Pentecostal and to the Roman Catholic…

I three different perspectivies from each church… and it all goes to making
me a better christian…

I love the Baptist way of preaching using all those great bible references
in making their points… Every now and then I really need one of those
hell and fire brimstone sermons… One of the main basic sermon styles
of the Baptist preacher… is through his sermon to put one into the pit
of fire and then to pull him out with the shed blood of Jesus the savior.
It can do wonders for one’s spiritual build up…

I love and appreciate the emotional expressions of the Pentecostal for thier
reaction of the love of God in their lives… and those songs… there isn’t any
other singing and praising the lord as they can give … It has always been
a celebration of God’s love for me. I have always come out from those meetings
with a deeper sense of the joy of God within us…
It is a great witness to worship and devotions they show when they knee
and pray out loud at the same time… no pride or stiff necks there…

and the Catholic faith with her wonderful gifts of the Sacraments…
The direct channels to God’s Graces… and the Eucharist … The presentence
of God literally… among us… and in his redemptive role which is for ever and ever.
and we gather together as a community/family and we through seven prayers
during the mass where we pray in repentance for our sins… and lay them at the foot
of the Cross where Christ is during the Mass… then receive that same Host in order
to stay connected to the vine as the branches we are…and grow in His Grace for our own vocation He desires for us to fulfill.

And the sights and sounds and smells of the Mass through it’s robed priests,
the candles and incense… is an actual vision of the Heavens which John saw
in his visions recorded in the book of Revelation of Jesus… What a wonderful
picture that gives one’s faith.

As long as a chruch proclaims Jesus as the Christ and presents him crucified
and ressurrected for our sins… it is one of the true churches which is the
Kingdom Of God here and now actually living in and amoung us and shines to the whole world through our love for one another… It is the true church!!!

that is my opinion…

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

When the church is wrong.

More accurately, you mean when an individual disagrees with the Church, right?

If Jesus started a Church, and if he promised to be with that Church until the end of time, can that Church be wrong?

 

[AmateurPianist]

When the church is wrong.

Incomplete answer.

When the church is wrong…and…when God says to do so.

 

[AmateurPianist]

More accurately, you mean when an individual disagrees with the Church, right?

If Jesus started a Church, and if he promised to be with that Church until the end of time, can that Church be wrong?

Since you ask, yes.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Incomplete answer.

When the church is wrong…and…when God says to do so.

Did God tell Joseph Smith to start a new Church?

 

[AmateurPianist]

Did God tell Joseph Smith to start a new Church?

I can’t pretend to speak for God.

But I doubt it myself. Particularly since their beliefs are…kind of…unorthodox.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I don’t think there is one true chruch from what the scriptures say:

" And I have sheep from another fold, and they hear my voice and come unto me".

“do not stop them, for he who is not against us is for us”…

When I say not one true church… I mean not one church which has the
truth of God within it…

Pesonally I belong to three different christian denomimations at the same time.
And I have no problem with it… many others in my family do but I don’t.

I belong to the Independant Baptist church
to the Pentecostal and to the Roman Catholic…

(edit)
As long as a chruch proclaims Jesus as the Christ and presents him crucified
and ressurrected for our sins… it is one of the true churches which is the
Kingdom Of God here and now actually living in and amoung us and shines to the whole world through our love for one another… It is the true church!!!

that is my opinion…

I’m glad you said it was your opinion. With respect, though, sir, there is simply no way that you can validly be a Catholic **and **a Baptist and a Pentecostal., all at once. You might think that registering in a parish and showing up for church makes you a member, but it doesn’t. And if you have been baptized as a Catholic and receive communion in a Catholic Church, then you cannot ‘also’ be simultaneously a professed, registered, baptized Baptist and/or Pentecostal. I wish you well on your journey to God but I would be remiss in my duties as a Catholic Christian if I did not tell you that your claim to be a ‘member’ of three separate Churches is a claim that is simply not permitted by the Catholic Church.

 

[hesco]

Unless when God designed the church, He designed it with one central authority. Now the central authority might not be one church. Perhaps in the apostolic church the apostles were the central authority, the glue as it were that held the whole thing together.

This is a discussion worth having.

Maybe Peter held some type of primacy amongst the apostles, then again maybe not. If he did, from reading the new testament it seems to be a “first amongst equals primacy” (like the Orthodox have).

By the way, your comments as worded sort of imply you believe the Catholic Church to be a cult like the LDS. I don’t think that is what you really believe. While I agree that in theory the claim of “being incapable of error” would lead to a lack of accountability (if I believed myself incapable of error in my studies, I probably would forego studying for any exams), at the same time I can think of some important distinctions in this area.

I agree here.

Actually your point about the Nicene Creed being a statement of essentials sort of makes a lot of sense. Why else would the ancient church go through the effort of formulating creeds except to draw a line in the sand and state these are the beliefs that we hold to be “very, very important”.

I agree that the church is all believers. But at the same time that statement seems to be incomplete because it does not answer the question of how Jesus designed the church to be organized (if He had any design in mind at all).

Jesus left his church to be designed by Peter (the original Pope) which he did and kept it running with the Holy Spirit to guide all our beloved Holy Fathers for the last 2000 years

 

[PJM]

=benidict;6126772]hi. have you ever had the chance to study the didache. clements letter to the corinthians? clement was a desciple of peter. very interesting what he wrote to them, especially in paragraph 44. yes the bible is trustworthy. but its similar to our constitution. our founding fathers not only wrote the constitution, they wrote the federalist papers. it went into further detail as to what they meant and intended when they wrote the constitution. also with the apostles. remember the bible was not put together for some time after the apostles deaths. but we also have the writings of their desciples who shed alot of light as to what the apostles taught orally on top of the written word. its worth a study. you may be suprised at what you find and where it leads. what they taught is still taught in the Catholic Church today.God bless you and yours

***Help me out here friend,

What are these three passages telling us ***

**2 Tim. 3:16 “All scripture **is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,”

** Mt. 16: 19** I [Jesus speaking] will give you [St. Peter /singular/ representing furture Popes and My Catholic Church] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Eph. 2:19 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

Christ shed His Blood and gave himself as barter for the TRUTH of His Chrich on all matters of Faith and Morals. No other document, by a Saint or a sinner can make and support that claim.

** John.17 Verses 16 to 20 ** [Again Jesus speaking] "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. **And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. **[20]

AMEN friend:yup::clapping:

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[AmateurPianist]

***Help me out here friend,

What are these three passages telling us ***

Well they are not saying something like…

In the last days there will be multiple organizations in My name. When you see this, you must know that only one of these organizations will really be My church. This is how you will identify My church from all of these other organizations…

 

[benidict]

Well they are not saying something like…

In the last days there will be multiple organizations in My name. When you see this, you must know that only one of these organizations will really be My church. This is how you will identify My church from all of these other organizations…

again, the desciples of the apostles and the writers who came after, tell us who this one organization is. it is always termed the Catholic Church. athanasious( please someone correct my spelling on his name) stated in his creed, that to be saved we must hold to the one Catholic faith. earlier writers too, also used the term Catholic. in its earliest form in the bible it was known as The Way. same Church. the only Church that the earliest writers refered to was the Catholic Church. no one else. well almost. their were other sects at that time that were already deemed heretical, such as the gnostics, who are the forbearers of the masonic orders and such. and the nicolations. whos doctrines Jesus stated thru the apostle john, that he hated. one gospel one baptism one faith. the doctrines taught by the Catholic Church are the doctrines passed down by the apostles. both written and oral tradition, One deposite of faith. Peace to you.

 

[benidict]

***Help me out here friend,

What are these three passages telling us ***

**2 Tim. 3:16 “All scripture **is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,”

** Mt. 16: 19** I [Jesus speaking] will give you [St. Peter /singular/ representing furture Popes and My Catholic Church] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Eph. 2:19 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

Christ shed His Blood and gave himself as barter for the TRUTH of His Chrich on all matters of Faith and Morals. No other document, by a Saint or a sinner can make and support that claim.

** John.17 Verses 16 to 20 ** [Again Jesus speaking] "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. **And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. **[20]

AMEN friend:yup::clapping:

Love and prayers,

Pat

amen and amen pjm. also the the early writers after the apostle solidify the teaching of an apostolic tradition, with the office of peter at its head. again, clement is very explicit about this. as was origen. it is stated that the apostles themselves set this system up, and knew there would be contention. if someone wrestles with the papacy or the magesterium. they do not wrestle with man. they really do wrestle with God who gave the apostles this authority. God bless you and yours.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

You claim Jesus Christ says so and you claim the Word of God says so. The issue is whether God has actually revealed this to man through Jesus Christ and the Word of God or whether you are presuming to speak for God

.

What God is written is written, what God has spoken is recorded; It is man who rejects God’s revelation of the IAM. The scriptures speak for themselves, your false assumption is not dealing with the matter put before you. The tactic of sidestepping the facts from an opinion lends to your weightlessness of your argument and to raise a false denial whether or not “God revealed building his Church upon Peter”. Either you believe in Jesus Christ or deny him, but don’t call him a Liar that Jesus did not build his Church upon Peter and his apostles.

Your logic again is the same oversimplification I referred to earlier.

• Jesus founded one church and the Word of God teaches there is one church
• The united apostolic church called itself Catholic
• Therefore we are exclusively the church of Jesus Christ

Here are the facts; Jesus established his Kingdom on Earth as it is in heaven. Protestants and non catholics do well to believe in accepting Jesus as their King and Savior. The Catholic Church is the Kingdom of God on earth with the true presence of Her King, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for the last 2000 years and counting. The Church militant on earth is the same body of believers in Jesus Christ in the Church Triumphant in heaven. God has confirmed these Catholic Saints with signs and wonders that followed them. Let the fruit from the tree speak from heaven.

Maybe you didn’t read God’s Word clearly.
Romans 8:35
**What will separate us from the love of Christ? Will anguish, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or the sword? **
36
As it is written: “For your sake we are being slain all the day; we are looked upon as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37
No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us.
38
**For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, 9 nor future things, nor powers,
39
nor height, nor depth, 10 nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. **

**Matthew 19:6 **So they are no longer two, but one flesh. **Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate." **

The Church is the body of Jesus Christ these two can never be separated. Now you speak of those who leave the body of Jesus Christ, or who have been excommunicated for teaching false and anti Christ teachings labeling these as split on their own recognisances. Never negates the body of Jesus Christ as being seperated into two, or have you not heard what the scriptures teach?

There can only be One body, One faith, One Lord; **Ephesians 4:4
2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;
5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. **

The Church (body) of Jesus is living, it has no make shift door with a label on it. For Jesus is the way and the Truth, the Church of Jesus Christ is his body in the Catholic Church where his True body, blood, soul and divinity are present always, and Jesus has never left his Catholic (universal) Church orphanned,

John 14:18
I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

What other Church does Jesus becomes present in his True presence of his “body, blood, soul and divinity”? Only the Catholic Church is recorded from antiquity to being the body of Jesus Christ, not because 2000 years of Catholic believers believed this, but because Jesus said it is so;

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

John 6:53
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
**Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. **
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

 

[AmateurPianist]

Here are the facts; Jesus established his Kingdom on Earth as it is in heaven. Protestants and non catholics do well to believe in accepting Jesus as their King and Savior. The Catholic Church is the Kingdom of God on earth with the true presence of Her King, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for the last 2000 years and counting. The Church militant on earth is the same body of believers in Jesus Christ in the Church Triumphant in heaven. God has confirmed these Catholic Saints with signs and wonders that followed them. Let the fruit from the tree speak from heaven.

Maybe you didn’t read God’s Word clearly.
**Matthew 19:6 **So they are no longer two, but one flesh. **Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate." **

The Church is the body of Jesus Christ these two can never be separated. Now you speak of those who leave the body of Jesus Christ, or who have been excommunicated for teaching false and anti Christ teachings labeling these as split on their own recognisances. Never negates the body of Jesus Christ as being seperated into two, or have you not heard what the scriptures teach?

There can only be One body, One faith, One Lord; Ephesians 4:4
2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;
5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

The Church (body) of Jesus is living, it has no make shift door with a label on it. For Jesus is the way and the Truth, the Church of Jesus Christ is his body in the Catholic Church where his True body, blood, soul and divinity are present always, and Jesus has never left his Catholic (universal) Church orphanned,

John 14:18
I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

What other Church does Jesus becomes present in his True presence of his “body, blood, soul and divinity”? Only the Catholic Church is recorded from antiquity to being the body of Jesus Christ, not because 2000 years of Catholic believers believed this, but because Jesus said it is so;

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

John 6:53
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
**Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. **
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

You are very good at providing your interpretation of Scriptures and then claiming it is the Word of God. You would be an excellent fundamentalist in that regard.

But…Again…none of the Scriptures you cite say anything like…

only one of these organizations will really be My church. This is how you will identify My church from all of these other organizations…

If they were, this would be a No Brainer.

Instead you are giving me your interpretation of these Scriptures.

The problem is (again) that I could very easily do a google search and come up with somebody elses interpretation of these Scriptures that is different from yours.

Then I would have the dilemma who do I believe…you…or the sources I find in google.

If you want, maybe I can do a google search of one of the Scriptures you cite. If every source I find agrees with you, then you are right and this is absolutely a No Brainer. If I find different interpretations, then it is back to…whom do I believe…you or somebody else.

 

[AmateurPianist]

Here are the facts; Jesus established his Kingdom on Earth as it is in heaven. Protestants and non catholics do well to believe in accepting Jesus as their King and Savior. The Catholic Church is the Kingdom of God on earth with the true presence of Her King, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for the last 2000 years and counting. The Church militant on earth is the same body of believers in Jesus Christ in the Church Triumphant in heaven. God has confirmed these Catholic Saints with signs and wonders that followed them. Let the fruit from the tree speak from heaven.

Maybe you didn’t read God’s Word clearly.
**Matthew 19:6 **So they are no longer two, but one flesh. **Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate." **

The Church is the body of Jesus Christ these two can never be separated. Now you speak of those who leave the body of Jesus Christ, or who have been excommunicated for teaching false and anti Christ teachings labeling these as split on their own recognisances. Never negates the body of Jesus Christ as being seperated into two, or have you not heard what the scriptures teach?

There can only be One body, One faith, One Lord; Ephesians 4:4
2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;
5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

The Church (body) of Jesus is living, it has no make shift door with a label on it. For Jesus is the way and the Truth, the Church of Jesus Christ is his body in the Catholic Church where his True body, blood, soul and divinity are present always, and Jesus has never left his Catholic (universal) Church orphanned,

John 14:18
I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

What other Church does Jesus becomes present in his True presence of his “body, blood, soul and divinity”? Only the Catholic Church is recorded from antiquity to being the body of Jesus Christ, not because 2000 years of Catholic believers believed this, but because Jesus said it is so;

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

John 6:53
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
**Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. **
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

I know you are very good at using bold type, larger fonts and the like. You also are very good at giving me your opinion on what God says.

But…

Again…none of the Scriptures you cite say anything like…

only one of these organizations will really be My church. This is how you will identify My church from all of these other organizations…

If they were, this would be a No Brainer. I would know what God is clearly saying.

Instead you are giving me your interpretation of these Scriptures.

The problem is (again) that I could very easily do a google search and come up with somebody elses interpretation of these Scriptures that is different from yours.

Then I would have the dilemma who do I believe…you…or the sources I find in google.

If you want, maybe I can do an experiment and perform a google search on one of the Scriptures you cite. If every source I find agrees with you, then you are absolutely right and this is absolutely a No Brainer. If I find different interpretations, then it is back to…whom do I believe…you or somebody else.

 

[AmateurPianist]

again, the desciples of the apostles and the writers who came after, tell us who this one organization is. it is always termed the Catholic Church. athanasious( please someone correct my spelling on his name) stated in his creed, that to be saved we must hold to the one Catholic faith. earlier writers too, also used the term Catholic. in its earliest form in the bible it was known as The Way. same Church. the only Church that the earliest writers refered to was the Catholic Church. no one else. well almost. their were other sects at that time that were already deemed heretical, such as the gnostics, who are the forbearers of the masonic orders and such. and the nicolations. whos doctrines Jesus stated thru the apostle john, that he hated. one gospel one baptism one faith. the doctrines taught by the Catholic Church are the doctrines passed down by the apostles. both written and oral tradition, One deposite of faith. Peace to you.

Now I: respect you for holding the Early Church Fathers in high regard. Their opinion should carry a lot of weight.

However I do notice that the opinion of the Early Church Fathers is not the same as God chiming in on the matter.

And I hate to say this…but you using the logic "The earliest church called themselves the Catholic church, therefore the Catholic church is the one true church…is akin to saying the name on the door as the governing metric.

Which would be great if there were a verse in the Bible that says you will know the one true church because it keeps the same name from the beginning…or something like that.

But I know of no such verse.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

You are very good at providing your interpretation of Scriptures and then claiming it is the Word of God. You would be an excellent fundamentalist in that regard.

But…Again…none of the Scriptures you cite say anything like…

If they were, this would be a No Brainer.

Instead you are giving me your interpretation of these Scriptures.

The problem is (again) that I could very easily do a google search and come up with somebody elses interpretation of these Scriptures that is different from yours.

Then I would have the dilemma who do I believe…you…or the sources I find in google.

If you want, maybe I can do a google search of one of the Scriptures you cite. If every source I find agrees with you, then you are right and this is absolutely a No Brainer. If I find different interpretations, then it is back to…whom do I believe…you or somebody else.

You make a valid obeservation here; There are four marks that confirm is the Church that Jesus built; One it has to be “ONE” Which Catholics are One body of believers in the living and dead in Christ believe as one world wide unchanged since the resurrection. Two it has to be “Holy”, the Catholic Church is “Holy” because she is a steward of the mysteries of God ( see 1Corinthian 4:1) and She possesses the "True body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ which makes her Holy. Three Jesus Church must be “Catholic” or have universality which encompasses “All nations, tribes, tongues and peoples in every age” (Only the Catholic Church can be proven historically and by recorded facts that she existed in every age since the resurrection by the historical records and living faith from her members who practriced the Catholic faith since the resurrection of Jesus Christ) no other body of believers can make such a claim but only the Catholic Church. Four; The Church of Jesus Christ “must” be “Apostolic” and be able to prove her unbroken succession to Peter and the Apostles of Jesus Christ.

In fact every Catholic in our profession of faith proclaims before God almighty that "We believe in ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH and can prove it. Now to profess such a faith in the presence of God almighty and throughout the world in every age confirms the living and dead that their is only One Church Jesus Christ built upon Peter and his apostles, and Jesus presence resides his blessed sacrament of his (Eucharist) covenant body, blood, soul and divinity.

If any Church can prove these four marks is in the church Jesus built upon Peter.