Who Should NOT Join the Church?

[Guardian]

What is the official teaching on adults joining the Church? Do they not have to believe everything the Church binds on the faithful? Do not all have to make a profession of faith saying they believe in all the Church’s binding teachings?

My friend asked me a few weeks ago how she could turn Catholic. I said, “Do you believe the Catholic Church is the One True Church established, preserved and guided by Christ and is always correct on binding teachings?” She said, “no.” I then told her not to join until she believed that.

In my mind, one of the things that reflects the worst on the Church and Christ is the existence of Cafeteria Catholics, people who call themselves “Catholic” but reject the authority of the Church. It was clear to me that my friend would have been a cafeteria from the get-go.

However, under canon law, is there some blanket clause that says any adult can join the Church, regardless of what he/she believes?

 

[LIMolly0721]

When someone is received into the Church at the Easter Vigil, they make a statement that they believe everything the Chruch teaches and that the Church gets its authority from God. I forget the exact words, but my husband was confirmed last Easter, and he and the other candidates read a line from the priest’s book during the Vigil which left no room for rejecting the authority of the Church. You have to agree with all the Church teachings to be Catholic.

 

[Della]

While converts and confirmands declare they believe all the Church teaches and in the Church’s authority from Christ, we do not say we need to fully understand those teachings. We are saying we believe that Christ established the Church in truth, therefore, whether we know all the Church’s teachings or understand it all or not, we will follow the teachings of the Church in our faith journey.

As to Cafeteria Catholics, in my experience most of them are cradle Catholics, not converts. Most converts know enough of what the Church teaches to believe that the Church is the Church founded by Christ, and so can promise to uphold all the teachings of the Church.

I think a great many cradle Catholics (not all, certainly, and probably not the majority of Catholics) got lost somewhere in the aftermath of Vatican II when many parishes aligned themselves more with the popular politics and attitudes of their day than with the directives of Vatican II’s documents.

We are still seeing the results in our day, and will for quite some time, I’m afraid. This is because the heterodox element was ready and waiting to use Vatican II for its own ends, and managed to destroy the faith in the Church of many from the 60’s even through today.

 

[rr1213]

As to Cafeteria Catholics, in my experience most of them are cradle Catholics, not converts. Most converts know enough of what the Church teaches to believe that the Church is the Church founded by Christ, and so can promise to uphold all the teachings of the Church.

That makes sense. People who are willing to go through the pain (and joy?) of converting are likely to be those who have put alot of effort into discovering what they believe the truth to be.

 

[valient_Lucy]

What is the official teaching on adults joining the Church? Do they not have to believe everything the Church binds on the faithful? Do not all have to make a profession of faith saying they believe in all the Church’s binding teachings?

My friend asked me a few weeks ago how she could turn Catholic. I said, “Do you believe the Catholic Church is the One True Church established, preserved and guided by Christ and is always correct on binding teachings?” She said, “no.” I then told her not to join until she believed that.

In my mind, one of the things that reflects the worst on the Church and Christ is the existence of Cafeteria Catholics, people who call themselves “Catholic” but reject the authority of the Church. It was clear to me that my friend would have been a cafeteria from the get-go.

However, under canon law, is there some blanket clause that says any adult can join the Church, regardless of what he/she believes?

I think you made the right decision. The priest at my home parish also asks potential converts if they are willing to attend Mass every Sunday for the rest of their lives.

 

[valient_Lucy]

While converts and confirmands declare they believe all the Church teaches and in the Church’s authority from Christ, we do not say we need to fully understand those teachings. We are saying we believe that Christ established the Church in truth, therefore, whether we know all the Church’s teachings or understand it all or not, we will follow the teachings of the Church in our faith journey.

There’s a difference between a person who says, “I don’t fully understand why the Church teaches this, but I believe it, because I believe in Christ and I believe in Christ’s Church,” and someone who says, “I deliberately reject this teaching.”

 

[valient_Lucy]

That makes sense. People who are willing to go through the pain (and joy?) of converting are likely to be those who have put alot of effort into discovering what they believe the truth to be.

I agree, and I think this holds true for converts to other religions as well. One of my mom’s co-workers is a Muslim woman, who was raised Muslim. Her husband is a convert to Islam, and the woman says that her husband is a much more devout Muslim than she is.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

There’s a difference between a person who says, “I don’t fully understand why the Church teaches this, but I believe it, because I believe in Christ and I believe in Christ’s Church,” and someone who says, “I deliberately reject this teaching.”

And also between the person who says “I don’t agree with this but I will do it until the Church changes its mind” and the person who says “since I don’t agree with this it doesn’t apply to me”.

 

[puzzleannie]

at the Easter vigil just before Confirmation the candidates make a profession of faith, and during the Rite of Confirmation for Catholics the candidates renew their baptismal promises with the same formula, the rejection of Satan and profession of the doctrinal statements of the Creed. At Easter then all the faithful renew their baptismal promises. We also profess the Creed together at Mass. No one, entering Catholic or currently Catholic, who does not belief and hold all that the Catholic Church teaches and acknowledge her divinely inspired authority to teach it should make that profession. To do so with mental reservations is a sacrilege.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

What is the official teaching on adults joining the Church? Do they not have to believe everything the Church binds on the faithful? Do not all have to make a profession of faith saying they believe in all the Church’s binding teachings?

My friend asked me a few weeks ago how she could turn Catholic. I said, “Do you believe the Catholic Church is the One True Church established, preserved and guided by Christ and is always correct on binding teachings?” She said, “no.” I then told her not to join until she believed that.

In my mind, one of the things that reflects the worst on the Church and Christ is the existence of Cafeteria Catholics, people who call themselves “Catholic” but reject the authority of the Church. It was clear to me that my friend would have been a cafeteria from the get-go.

However, under canon law, is there some blanket clause that says any adult can join the Church, regardless of what he/she believes?

Technically if she is validly Baptized she already is a member of the Catholic Church in an imperfect way. It is now up to her to improve on that relationship with the Church and with her understanding of the teaching of Christ.

 

[Cat]

There are also several opportunities during the RCIA process where people have the opportunity to turn away from the Catholic Church.

The first few weeks of RCIA are the “Period of Inquiry.” In our RCIA, the people are told at the end of this period that they can make a decision to either go on in RCIA, or drop out now and think more about their decision.

Later in RCIA come the “Scrutinies.” These appear to be symbolic, but not really. The sponsor is supposed to get to know their person, and try to discern whether that person truly believes in the Church. The candidate is asked if they believe certain things, and if they don’t, they should possibly wait a while. The sponsors are asked to vouch for their person and they shouldn’t do this if they have doubts.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

There are also several opportunities during the RCIA process where people have the opportunity to turn away from the Catholic Church.

The first few weeks of RCIA are the “Period of Inquiry.” In our RCIA, the people are told at the end of this period that they can make a decision to either go on in RCIA, or drop out now and think more about their decision.

Later in RCIA come the “Scrutinies.” These appear to be symbolic, but not really. The sponsor is supposed to get to know their person, and try to discern whether that person truly believes in the Church. The candidate is asked if they believe certain things, and if they don’t, they should possibly wait a while. The sponsors are asked to vouch for their person and they shouldn’t do this if they have doubts.

I’d like to clarify some things regarding RCIA stages.

A person enters Inquiry and does indeed make a decision after some weeks in Inquiry if they wish to go through the Rite of Welcome for the Baptized or the Rite of Acceptance for the un-Baptized. If they, their Sponsor or the RCIA Staff do not feell that they are ready, they simply remain in the Inquiry process, it’s not a “do it or drop out” decision.

The Next stage would be the Rite of Election for Catechumens and continuing Conversion for Candidates. Before going through the Rite a decision again is made by the person, the sponsor, and the RCIA staff, to move forward or remain in the Catechumenate for another year, or remain as a Candidate for more Catechesis for some more months. Candidates can be received at anytime during the year. Catechumens can only normally be Baptized at the Easter Vigil. Again though it’s not a move forward or drop out, it’s more of a stay where you are.

 

[lak611]

Does RCIA take steps to ensure that people are really serious about joining the Church, and that they are not just joining in order to make it easier to marry a Catholic, etc? I noticed that there are some posters on these fora who converted because they married a Catholic but then left the Church shortly afterwards.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Does RCIA take steps to ensure that people are really serious about joining the Church, and that they are not just joining in order to make it easier to marry a Catholic, etc? I noticed that there are some posters on these fora who converted because they married a Catholic but then left the Church shortly afterwards.

Yes, but the truth is that we have no right to refuse a member. Someone just has to persuade another person to pour some water on him and say the words “I baptise you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost” and he is a Catholic, unless the bishop takes the long and difficult step of formally excommunicating him.
However that’s not the ideal way to do it. We want people to have some understanding of their faith to avoid frivolrous or poorly motivated baptisms.

 

[puzzleannie]

yes as previous posters have explained, the rites and timing of RCIA is designed for discernment of conversion and readiness to proceed to each further period i the process. We still have to take what people say at face value, and cannot turn anyone away from the sacraments based on what might happen in the future. I can tell you that those who never return after Easter will very likely not be practicing the faith 3-5 years from now.

 

[Ahimsa]

Is there an online source that contains the actual vows and statements one takes/makes in becoming Catholic – you know, all the ‘renounce Satan’ and such?

 

[Aramis]

Renunciation of Sin:
Do you reject Satan? I do.

And all his works? I do.

And all his empty promises? I do.

Profession of Faith:
Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty
creator of heaven and earth? I do.

Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was born of the Virgin Mary,
was crucified, died, and was buried,
rose from the dead,
and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? I do.

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting? I do.

I found the above at canticanova.com/planning/year-c/plnevc_l.htm

I have verified this against the OCP “Today’s Missal - April 1- June 7 2007”

THere is an alternate form for the first part, the renunciation of sin.

Between this and the Creed, that is the dogma that must be believed to be accepted. A great deal of the church’s teaching is doctrine: you may not teach nor preach in violation of doctrine, but you are not required to believe it.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Does RCIA take steps to ensure that people are really serious about joining the Church, and that they are not just joining in order to make it easier to marry a Catholic, etc? I noticed that there are some posters on these fora who converted because they married a Catholic but then left the Church shortly afterwards.

There are supposed to be several interviews with the person and the sponsor through out the whole process. We have had a retention rate of 80-95% after being Baptized or Received for the last 5 years, averaging 15-20 people. Just this morning I saw several people from past RCIA groups at Mass and three of them would have qualified for the “I’m going to Marry a Catholic” reason when starting out, but finished because they wanted to be there.

 

[valient_Lucy]

There are supposed to be several interviews with the person and the sponsor through out the whole process. We have had a retention rate of 80-95% after being Baptized or Received for the last 5 years, averaging 15-20 people. Just this morning I saw several people from past RCIA groups at Mass and three of them would have qualified for the “I’m going to Marry a Catholic” reason when starting out, but finished because they wanted to be there.

Yeah, it can happen. I know someone who joined the Catholic Church because she just felt that she should join a church. I guess that she thought that it seemed like a nice thing to do. That was several years ago. Now she’s a Franciscan Tertiary.

So it can happen. But I wouldn’t necessarily bet on it.

 

[Ahimsa]

Yeah, it can happen. I know someone who joined the Catholic Church because she just felt that she should join a church.

Sometimes, you just gotta walk on faith, and see what happens.