Who tempted Satan to sin?

[Robert_Sock]

Free will entails a choice. As Christians, we believe that there is an ultimate choice between good (God) and evil (Satan), but who tempted Satan to disobey God and choose evil? The ability to choose between good and evil is what gives rise to free will. Again, who tempted Satan to choose evil?

Do angels have a free will? (I assume not.)

As purported in Job, it seems that Satan’s job is to tempt humans so that we may be tested. Could this be the reason God created Satan and the “rebellious” angels?

 

[JohnDamian]

Angels have free will; according to 2 Corinthians 4:4; Satan chose to become God of this world; against God.

 

[HickmanJosh]

Free will entails a choice. As Christians, we believe that there is an ultimate choice between good (God) and evil (Satan), but who tempted Satan to disobey God and choose evil? The ability to choose between good and evil is what gives rise to free will. Again, who tempted Satan to choose evil?

Do angels have a free will? (I assume not.)

As purported in Job, it seems that Satan’s job is to tempt humans so that we may be tested. Could this be the reason God created Satan and the “rebellious” angels?

Read the second from the bottom for a little bit of insight into why a third of the angles defected

 

[st_lucy]

Free will entails a choice. As Christians, we believe that there is an ultimate choice between good (God) and evil (Satan), but who tempted Satan to disobey God and choose evil? The ability to choose between good and evil is what gives rise to free will. Again, who tempted Satan to choose evil?

Do angels have a free will? (I assume not.)

As purported in Job, it seems that Satan’s job is to tempt humans so that we may be tested. Could this be the reason God created Satan and the “rebellious” angels?

Satan chose his will over God’s thus he sinned on his own free will. All of God’s creatures have free will. He wants our full love not the love of a robot.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Read the second from the bottom for a little bit of insight into why a third of the angles defected

The above site you gave to me states that the rebellious angels had a free will to choose good or evil. This implies that good and evil existed prior to the fall of the rebellious angels. Who created this “good” and “evil?” And, who was the tempter?

 

[st_lucy]

The above site you gave to me states that the rebellious angels had a free will to choose good or evil. This implies that good and evil existed prior to the fall of the rebellious angels. Who created this “good” and “evil?” And, who was the tempter?

I might be wrong here but good = God’s will. evil = your own will / our self pride.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

The above site you gave to me states that the rebellious angels had a free will to choose good or evil. This implies that good and evil existed prior to the fall of the rebellious angels. Who created this “good” and “evil?” And, who was the tempter?

You could be tempted without an actual tempter.

God created good and evil. God is goood, being without God is evil.

Are you genuinely curious as to the answer of these questions, or are you trying to pove a point?

I don’t mean to sound rude, but it SEEMs (I could be wrong) to me that you’re trying to make a point.

 

[HickmanJosh]

The above site you gave to me states that the rebellious angels had a free will to choose good or evil. This implies that good and evil existed prior to the fall of the rebellious angels. Who created this “good” and “evil?” And, who was the tempter?

Gods will is Good, anything contrary to Gods will is evil

 

[Robert_Sock]

You could be tempted without an actual tempter.

God created good and evil. God is goood, being without God is evil.

Are you genuinely curious as to the answer of these questions, or are you trying to pove a point?

I don’t mean to sound rude, but it SEEMs (I could be wrong) to me that you’re trying to make a point.

I’ve been delving into Judaism and I’m pitting some of their philosophical arguments against those in Catholicism. It all began over the doctrine of hell and the problems of "good and “evil.” For example, I find the Catholic doctrine of hell, filled with eternal suffering and torture, to be a tough pill to swallow if there is an all loving God. The Jewish doctrine on these topics seem to paint a more benevolent picture of God.

Here is a Jewish article that explains where I’m coming from: beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html

 

[His_little1]

I get the point the OP is asking. I think when George Burns played God in “Oh God”, he put it right. “Have you ever tried to create an up without a down, a left without a right?”

I always thought that the devil and his followers “defected” because they were jealous of God’s love and affection for man. The older sibling could relate to being the light of the father’s eye until the new baby came along who couldn’t do anything but eat, scream, drool, and fill a diaper. I always cringe when someone said the devil fell. He didn’t fall, there wasn’t a banana peel in Heaven, he jumped.

I don’t think the Father (God) tempted the devil by giving him (the devil) free will and then set things in motion for him to fail. That doesn’t seem to fit the Father, Son or the Spirit I trust in. But, being omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent…whatever, I think that God knows what is happening and trusts each one of His creation with the choice He gave. It is a tremendous responsibility after all. I think when we are tempted and choose God, that is as pleasing to Him as when a child makes a choice to be helpful or obedient to his parents here on earth. I think the word temptation we use usually means to dangle something in front of someone to get them to choose something YOU want them to pick (even if it is not in their best interest. Such as tempting a person on a diet with a big piece of chocolate cake).

I would think, that our Heavenly Father, if He wanted to tempt the devil and then man, in the beginning, would have presented Jesus (in His Glory) to them as proof to what creation could be, should it choose total obedience to the Father…and therefore it would be made more perfect. (Or it could choose imperfection and death and all of the things and feelings that go along with it) Looking at it from the other side, even though that (perfection) would have been better for creation, imperfection might seem more exciting (if you could wrap your head around the possibility in a perfect state of being).

But the “story” would have been over there, now wouldn’t it? If it were a book, you would have put it down after the first and only chapter.

I still say God knows what the plan is.
That’s my story and I am sticking to it.

 

[His_little1]

I’ve been delving into Judaism and I’m pitting some of their philosophical arguments against those in Catholicism. It all began over the doctrine of hell and the problems of "good and “evil.” For example, I find the Catholic doctrine of hell, filled with eternal suffering and torture, to be a tough pill to swallow if there is an all loving God. The Jewish doctrine on these topics seem to paint a more benevolent picture of God.

God can still be all loving, yet have justice. God still loves the people in hell, but His gift of free will has permitted them to choose Him or hell. If they chose hell, that was their choice. God is ever merciful. But that mercy keeps being offered and when we turn away from that mercy, we choose a different path.

A parent who loves their children and tries to teach them to make good choices will always be heart-broken when they choose a careless lifestyle and end up dead. But they would still love them, right?

 

[fulbert4605]

There are 3 sources of temptation: The devil, the flesh, and the world.

devil: The devil did not tempt himself. That is, the future evil devil did not tempt the presently good devil towards the beginning of time in order to turn the devil evil.

flesh: The devil did not have a body, therefore temptation couldn’t have come from the flesh.

world: It is debatable what the state of the world was like in those early times.

The devil’s sin was pride. Where does pride originate?

 

[JDaniel]

Free will entails a choice. As Christians, we believe that there is an ultimate choice between good (God) and evil (Satan), but who tempted Satan to disobey God and choose evil? The ability to choose between good and evil is what gives rise to free will. Again, who tempted Satan to choose evil?

Do angels have a free will? (I assume not.)

As purported in Job, it seems that Satan’s job is to tempt humans so that we may be tested. Could this be the reason God created Satan and the “rebellious” angels?

Welcome Robert.

Why the question posed as you have posed it? And why must the question remain as you posed it?

God bless,
jd

 

[Robert_Sock]

If Satan’s downfall was pride, then pride must be a temptation in Heaven. Furthermore, we would probably expect that “good” angels are still prone to temptation and some succumb to pride, such that they get cast into hell along with Satan. Likewise, there would probably be some of the rebellious angels who repent of their pride.

I used to be proud but I repented, so why can’t the “rebellious” angels?.

Again, Judaism paints a more optimistic picture of Satan and the rebellious angels.

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Some seem to point a finger to a point in time and say, God made Satan here…who was evil before? This question is based on linear time, which God is outside of and which we can not fathom. He knows all things from beginning to the end and from the very moment of the beginning, before the beginning, yet after. Even so at the end of our time his time will not exist, yet it will exist, because time never existed for him to begin with, and it never ends, but it does.

Our small minds cannot grasp…

What is even more amazing is that he would care even the smallest amount as to what would happen to you and to me… That is truly amazing.

 

[His_little1]

Again, Judaism paints a more optimistic picture of Satan and the rebellious angels.

I haven’t studied in depth what Judaism teaches beyond of course what we have of our own faith which came from it. But if Judaism teaches such warm feelings about a loving and forgiving God, why do you suppose they opposed Jesus and His teachings so violently? Not trying to pick a fight, just pondering myself.

If you’re saying that God could forgive those in hell if they repented, I would agree based on the knowledge that we serve an awesome God who is all loving and forgiving (putting His justice aside for the moment) But I guess I’m missing the rest of your point. I started off defending the original post as a question I could understand, but the more this goes on, the more I don’t get what you are saying.

Are you disagreeing with the judgement and punishment of hell?
Are you trying to defend that Judaism has the “better” answer over Christianity/Catholicism?
Does the punishment that hell would inflict make you doubt how loving God could be or truly is?

I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand it in faith that we are both trying to see the truth.
Peace.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I haven’t studied in depth what Judaism teaches beyond of course what we have of our own faith which came from it. But if Judaism teaches such warm feelings about a loving and forgiving God, why do you suppose they opposed Jesus and His teachings so violently? Not trying to pick a fight, just pondering myself.

If you’re saying that God could forgive those in hell if they repented, I would agree based on the knowledge that we serve an awesome God who is all loving and forgiving (putting His justice aside for the moment) But I guess I’m missing the rest of your point. I started off defending the original post as a question I could understand, but the more this goes on, the more I don’t get what you are saying.

Are you disagreeing with the judgement and punishment of hell?
Are you trying to defend that Judaism has the “better” answer over Christianity/Catholicism?
Does the punishment that hell would inflict make you doubt how loving God could be or truly is?

I’m sorry. I’m not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand it in faith that we are both trying to see the truth.
Peace.

See post #9 for where I’m coming from.

 

[Thyme]

Extract from Catholicism for Dummies

Satan’s jealousy

A Catholic belief is that angels were created before humankind and that their angelic will, unlike yours, is incapable of changing once a decision has been made. Angels have one irrevocable act of will, and they know this.** So when the angel Lucifer and his colleagues conspired to go against the will of God, they sinned** and could never seek forgiveness or redemption due to their essence and nature. Humans, on the other hand, are capable of changing their minds- of repenting and seeking forgiveness. So the Catholic perspective is that Satan hates human beings, because humans have a second chance that he’ll never have. Th fact that the Second Person of the Holy Trinity became man by taking a human nature further infuriated him, because God never became and angel but did become man in the person of Jesus Christ.

I will try to explain my understanding of it:

Once upon a time, God and the angels were happy in perfect Heaven- the only things that existed were the Godhead and angels. The angles obeyed God out of love, even though God never forced them to. Lucifer was a beautiful angel and desired even more glory, in hopes of being even happier. In order to do this, he planned to make himself equal to or above God and told the other angels his idea. With the use of their free will, the angels desired more glory, yet evil did not yet exist- they just wanted more glory with their imperfect wills.

God told Lucifer and the angels that although they have free will, only God’s will grants perfection. Out of free will, Lucifer took God’s perfection for granted and a third of the angels reached for more power. God would never control anyone and perfection couldn’t remain with the angels who desired more glory, so He had to expel them away from Him and His loyal angels, thus creating hell.

In the void away from God, perfection could not exist. Lucifer quickly viewed himself as a “god” of hell and led his followers into corruption.

And they will live bitterly ever after.

 

[JDaniel]

If Satan’s downfall was pride, then pride must be a temptation in Heaven. Furthermore, we would probably expect that “good” angels are still prone to temptation and some succumb to pride, such that they get cast into hell along with Satan. Likewise, there would probably be some of the rebellious angels who repent of their pride.

I used to be proud but I repented, so why can’t the “rebellious” angels?.

Again, Judaism paints a more optimistic picture of Satan and the rebellious angels.

Robert:

Is this just a statement for the public, or an answer to my questions?

God bless,
jd

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

Extract from Catholicism for Dummies

I will try to explain my understanding of it:

Once upon a time, God and the angels were happy in perfect Heaven- the only things that existed were the Godhead and angels. The angles obeyed God out of love, even though God never forced them to. Lucifer was a beautiful angel and desired even more glory, in hopes of being even happier. In order to do this, he planned to make himself equal to or above God and told the other angels his idea. With the use of their free will, the angels desired more glory, yet evil did not yet exist- they just wanted more glory with their imperfect wills.

God told Lucifer and the angels that although they have free will, only God’s will grants perfection. Out of free will, Lucifer took God’s perfection for granted and a third of the angels reached for more power. God would never control anyone and perfection couldn’t remain with the angels who desired more glory, so He had to expel them away from Him and His loyal angels, thus creating hell.

In the void away from God, perfection could not exist. Lucifer quickly viewed himself as a “god” of hell and led his followers into corruption.

And they will live bitterly ever after.

Page 12 of “Angels of God” by Mike Aquilina has a paragraph from Gregory the Great, which is basically your account… Cheers…