Who was Saint Paul?

[dessert]

What are the most important things about Paul?

What do you think Jesus would have said to him if Paul walked as an apostle?

Any ideas?
Dessert

 

[Eileen_T]

I think his most important quality was his passion for Truth/God. This is what led him to persecute the followers of Jesus whom he considered to be a blasphemer. This is what, after his conversion, led him to offer his life as a victim soul in spreading the Good News.

When he was taken up to the seventh heaven, in his conversion, I think Jesus would have talked to him about charity/love being the greatest of all the virtues. It comes out so frequently in his epistles.

Col.3:12-15*Put ye on therefore, as the elect of God, holy, and beloved, the bowels of mercy, benignity, humility, modesty, patience: Bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if any have a complaint against another: even as the Lord hath forgiven you, so do you also. But above all these things have charity, which is the bond of perfection: And let the peace of Christ rejoice in your hearts, wherein also you are called in one body: and be ye thankful. *

 

[rwoehmke]

Paul was not one of the Twelve, but he too was chosen, called, and sent by the Risen Christ to carry the Good News to the Gentiles. Can you imagine what Catholicism would be like if Paul had not been called to be an Apostle? Chances are good we would be very like the Messianic Jews of our modern day.Certainly Paul’s letters are the first written documents we have that laid out for the early Christian how to live a life suitable for a follower of Christ.

 

[NotWorthy]

I’m not sure how good Paul would have been as one of the “twelve”. He was such a strict conformist, the only way he could convert it seemed like was the equivalent to lightning from the sky.

I think the message Jesus was bringing to us in his call to the Apostles was that these guys followed Jesus for mundane reasons.

No lightning. No blindness. Just simply out of faith.

Paul’s ministry and his passion for spreading the Gospel were necessary, just all in due time!

 

[dessert]

Were there any spiritual women in Paul’s life?

I know Timothy was like a spiritual son or younger brother, so did Timothy’s mother travel around in the ministry?

 

[dessert]

I’m not sure how good Paul would have been as one of the “twelve”. He was such a strict conformist, the only way he could convert it seemed like was the equivalent to lightning from the sky.

I think the message Jesus was bringing to us in his call to the Apostles was that these guys followed Jesus for mundane reasons.

No lightning. No blindness. Just simply out of faith.

Paul’s ministry and his passion for spreading the Gospel were necessary, just all in due time!

Yes so Paul was the real first Jewish revert, convert, on fire evangelist.

Why did he have Timothy get circumsized?

Do you think he had to have this done, do you think Jesus would have said yes.

 

[Eileen_T]

Yes so Paul was the real first Jewish revert, convert, on fire evangelist.

Why did he have Timothy get circumsized?

Do you think he had to have this done, do you think Jesus would have said yes.

Paul felt it was necessary for Timothy to be circumcized so that he could preach to the Jews, who otherwise would have avoided him.

In the circumstances, I think Jesus would have agreed to the necessity of it.

From the epistles it doesn’t sound as though there were any women travelling with Paul and Timothy.

 

[NotWorthy]

Yes so Paul was the real first Jewish revert, convert, on fire evangelist.

Why did he have Timothy get circumsized?

Do you think he had to have this done, do you think Jesus would have said yes.

There were two things that influenced Paul’s decision, in my opinion.

A) His own teaching - “When I was with the Greeks, I had to act like a Greek, etc.” (Paraphrasing).

B) Paul was already in so much hot water with the Jews, that I think he wanted to placate them.

This is just my opinion, though.

 

[Benadam]

I think the most important thing about Paul is… Paul had ‘range’.
No one I can think of has within their life and soul the extremes that Paul had. I think when Jesus expressed through John the revelator " I would rather you be hot or cold" He personified that teaching with Paul.

Because Paul had range he could call himself the chief of sinners. He could become all things to all men in order to preach the Gospel effectively.

It was by Paul’s authority that Christ’s suffering through the Church became physical. The camp of the Church Militant entered earth because of the action and authority of Paul. That’s the utmost end of one extreme. St Stephen’s prayer that those who murdered him not be held accountable initiates the other extreme when that prayer answered places Paul under Christian authority when he is sent by Jesus to a strangers house to be told what to do. Then the pendulum swings because what He is to do is to lead that Holy Militia his sin gave birth too.

He replaces St Stephen in a way and at the same time is a kind of replacement for Judas as the chief sinner apostle. If Paul is the hot or cold concept personified Judas would be the personification of lukewarm I think.

From weilding the authority of the dragon that chases after the children of the woman written of in revelation, Paul is placed under one of those children, in the condition of a child that needs a parent in order to know what to do.

Paul’s conversion manifests this extreme polarity when in the space of a blink of an eye the fire and death being breathed onto the Church through Paul is extinguished and reignited even more powerfully onto the Church as Holy Fire and Life. Conditions forcing the Church to hide in most places converts with Paul into conditions of peace and expansion. With Paul’s soul the whole land experiences a conversion.

Paul was a rider on a horse leading the charge against Christ and when Jesus knocked horse and rider to the ground what arose was a horse who’s rider gives the reigns to Jesus. That’s probably what Christ admired about Paul too. He was a rider on a horse willing to make the charge, just under the wrong leader.

 

[lak611]

What are the most important things about Paul?

What do you think Jesus would have said to him if Paul walked as an apostle?

Any ideas?
Dessert

Paul was an apostle. Although he was not one of the original twelve, he was chosen to be an apostle on the road to Damascus when the risen Christ personally spoke to him.

 

[lak611]

From the epistles it doesn’t sound as though there were any women travelling with Paul and Timothy.

He does mention Timothy’s mother and grandmother, though.

 

[Benadam]

There were two things that influenced Paul’s decision, in my opinion.

A) His own teaching - “When I was with the Greeks, I had to act like a Greek, etc.” (Paraphrasing).

B) Paul was already in so much hot water with the Jews, that I think he wanted to placate them.

This is just my opinion, though.

Hello notworthy, I think you are right , Paul’s decision like the decision of James that the gentiles obstain from the food of idols and ‘strangled animals’? helped the Jews accept the Gentiles through that temporary rerquirement and at the same time let the Gentiles experience the fruits of obedience.

 

[dessert]

I think the most important thing about Paul is… Paul had ‘range’.
No one I can think of has within their life and soul the extremes that Paul had. I think when Jesus expressed through John the revelator " I would rather you be hot or cold" He personified that teaching with Paul.

Because Paul had range he could call himself the chief of sinners. He could become all things to all men in order to preach the Gospel effectively.

It was by Paul’s authority that Christ’s suffering through the Church became physical. The camp of the Church Militant entered earth because of the action and authority of Paul. That’s the utmost end of one extreme. St Stephen’s prayer that those who murdered him not be held accountable initiates the other extreme when that prayer answered places Paul under Christian authority when he is sent by Jesus to a strangers house to be told what to do. Then the pendulum swings because what He is to do is to lead that Holy Militia his sin gave birth too.

He replaces St Stephen in a way and at the same time is a kind of replacement for Judas as the chief sinner apostle. If Paul is the hot or cold concept personified Judas would be the personification of lukewarm I think.

From weilding the authority of the dragon that chases after the children of the woman written of in revelation, Paul is placed under one of those children, in the condition of a child that needs a parent in order to know what to do.

Paul’s conversion manifests this extreme polarity when in the space of a blink of an eye the fire and death being breathed onto the Church through Paul is extinguished and reignited even more powerfully onto the Church as Holy Fire and Life. Conditions forcing the Church to hide in most places converts with Paul into conditions of peace and expansion. With Paul’s soul the whole land experiences a conversion.

Paul was a rider on a horse leading the charge against Christ and when Jesus knocked horse and rider to the ground what arose was a horse who’s rider gives the reigns to Jesus. That’s probably what Christ admired about Paul too. He was a rider on a horse willing to make the charge, just under the wrong leader.

**
This is very interesting as I had not thought of Paul as more than likely leading the stoning of St. Stephen and the forgiveness of the saint, what a good picture, like when Jesus said at the cross Father forgive them.

What better person to know the enemy camp than the one that was there. so Paul knew how the devil worked because he had been working against the Christians and that explains why he was so forcefull and knew how peoples motives can be changed easily.
I had thought of Judas not luke warm but compared to Paul yes.

I started this thread because I thought it would be nice to get the ideas of Paul because I have never understood him, but I am also now reading a book I dug out of my library titled The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Timothy and Titusby Oiver B. Greene 1964
He is proabably dead now but it is a first printing and in perfect shape because I never read it

So that is what I am basing some of my ?'s on thank you for your responses.

I like the book but didn’t want to get entrapped falsely and he writes the book like a sermon preaching all over the bible relating the scriptures.

I didn’t realize it was Jesus that spoke to Paul at his conversion why I thought it was an angel I don’t know.
Dessert
**

 

[Benadam]

**

This is very interesting as I had not thought of Paul as more than likely leading the stoning of St. Stephen and the forgiveness of the saint, what a good picture, like when Jesus said at the cross Father forgive them.

 

[dessert]

dessert;2724793:

**

Saul was the person who possessed the Jewish authority at this event to order the execution, and he did. You have a keen sense of beauty. St Stephen is so perfectly following his Lord. Notice that just as Jesus mentions the coming of the son of man on the clouds of heaven so does Stephen, St Stephen gets the same response too. St Stephen experienced almost to a tee what Christ experienced. Being the first to drink that cup it’s most fitting. St Stephen ends his earthly life in imitation of Christ so perfectly that Christ’s Passion becomes St Stephen’s " forgive them Father"

It was Jesus that Paul ‘experienced’. Poor St Paul didn’t get the benefit of the veil of flesh that offered shade to the 12. St Paul came face to face with The Risen One. St Paul got the crash course **

So Paul had the authority but he was ignorant, I am reading in my book.
But because Paul did this ignorantly, the moment he met the Lord Jesus and the light of the glorious Gospel of God’s marvelous grace illuminated his heart and spirit, he immediately turned his back on unbelief and became a follower of the Lord Jesus
“and straightawayhe preached Christ in the synagogues that He is the Son of God” Acts 9;20

His ignorance did not excuse him but shows the longsuffering of Christ.
And he went to work for Christ immediately.
Yes Paul was watching Steven die as the soldiers were watching Christ die but he doesn’t go that far in this book, but he he says Paul says he is the chief of all sinners.
Paul led an exemplary life like Nicodemus so Paul’s chief sin was being the leader of or “form” of the exam;ple of the greatest of sinners. A persecuter of Jesus.
Dessert

 

[Benadam]

Benadam;2726301:

So Paul had the authority but he was ignorant, I am reading in my book.
But because Paul did this ignorantly, the moment he met the Lord Jesus and the light of the glorious Gospel of God’s marvelous grace illuminated his heart and spirit, he immediately

turned his back on unbelief and became a follower of the Lord Jesus
“and straightawayhe preached Christ in the synagogues that He is the Son of God” Acts 9;20

His ignorance did not excuse him but shows the longsuffering of Christ.
And he went to work for Christ immediately.
Yes Paul was watching Steven die as the soldiers were watching Christ die but he doesn’t go that far in this book, but he he says Paul says he is the chief of all sinners.
Paul led an exemplary life like Nicodemus so Paul’s chief sin was being the leader of or “form” of the exam;ple of the greatest of sinners. A persecuter of Jesus.
Dessert

you bring up a good point. It’s one I ponder because Paul doesn’t even seem to have to make a decision to believe. Paul responds to Jesus in the knowledge that who he is speaking to is God without question. Maybe he got lucky because the original 12 understood how discerning between God and angel isn’t easy. Even knowing that didn’t prevent St John from mistaking an angel for the Lord in the book of revelation. Was St Paul that ignorant? Or,was St Paul that knowledgeable that he could distinguish that what was appearing to him was not an angel? Or, maybe the Holy Spirit of Christ filled Paul with supernatural knowledge during the experience.

 

[guanophore]

What are the most important things about Paul?

What do you think Jesus would have said to him if Paul walked as an apostle?

Any ideas?
Dessert

Paul was apparently taught the Mass by Jesus after His resurrection:

1 Cor 11:23-29

23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

 

[dessert]

Paul was apparently taught the Mass by Jesus after His resurrection:

1 Cor 11:23-29

23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

Yes I think Saint Paul also says in ;
Gal 2; 20
I live , no longer I, but Christ lives in me; in sofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.
That is why instructed Timothy and Titus on how the churches should be conducted so reverently.

Dessert

 

[dessert]

Oliver Greene really ties all of Paul’s words together through the scripure and Paul is always turning our eyes to Christ.
I am on I Timothy 3 ;15 verse 1…
His comments are about the House of God ; the Mystery of Godliness
“God was manifested in the flesh”
The incarnation of the Son of God , can we understand, no it is a mystery.
It was in that human body of flesh that God appeared among men here on earth. Many saw Him and as paul says he was the last to see Him in spirit.
Judas betrayed God in the flesh and Paul was crucifying the living Spirit of God, until, he saw that “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself…” (II Cor 5; 19)

I have to put in from this book a quote that is amazing also he comments on a few things that he seems to contradict himself a little. He talks of how Paul astounded onthe honorable life bishops and deacons etc. should live and be leaders and then he says we only need Jesus to lead us and no others.

But he also says and admonishes people who don’t go to church and says we should all be like the Roman Catholics and get up early in the morning and go to church I can’t quote the page,I will have to do my own notes, because I will have to look it up. His book doesn’t have an index and he doesn’t have any footnotes puts all the scripture in as he goes along like it is one long sermon book. I like the way he inter connects and tells all about Paul’s journey like he really studied everything and everywhere Paul went.
Here is his quote;
page 133;
" I am a trinitarian. Any person who reads the Bible with an open mind and open heart cannot deny the Trinity. I believe in one God manifested in three Persons - Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. Those who read the Word for the purpose of learning what the Word teaches, rather than for the purpose of proving a religious arguement, can clearly see the Trinity. What a tremendous and majestic statement - the Incarnation declared and proclaimed in so few words’ “God was manifest in the flesh”!
He ends this chapter with;
pg.141 This is the message that every bishop, deacon, pastor, and evengelist should proclaim around the world; The Savior who died and was buried, rose again, ascended - and is coming again " according to the Scriptures."
He capitalizes Word always in this book as Jesus is the Living Word and every Word He spoke is the Living Word.
He doesn’t do the bold type but uses large print to emphasize and repeats a lot for impact just like he is preaching.
Much is his opinion on the travels of Paul, and like I said there aren’t any source or index. the strangest book I am reading and the most intriguing.
Just thought I would share it.
Dessert

 

[Yerusalyim]

Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ. He was a Jew, a Roman Citizen, a Rabbi trained in Jerusalem, and though a convert to Christianity, Paul remained faithful to the Mosaic law while at the same time battling Judaizers. It would appear that he was at some point widowed (Rabbis had to be married back in the day, yet from Paul’s writings he appears to be single when he enters the ministry for Christ…so…either widowed or lived without marital relations…a daunting prospect).