Who was the first Catholic?

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Renton405 said:
The Catholic Church was formally declared in Matthew 16…
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It did not actually come into existence until Pentecost.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20060604_pentecoste_en.html

< “The Church has been catholic and missionary from her birth. The universality of salvation is meaningfully manifested with the list of the numerous ethnic groups to which those who heard the Apostles’ first proclamation belonged (cf. Acts 2: 9-11).” >
 
Uncle_Norbert said:
I think you’re letting your reverence toward Mary cloud your judgement. There was no Christian Church to be a part of prior to Christ naming Peter “Rock”.

I take absolutely nothing away from Mary. But the question was “Who was the first Catholic?”

There was no “Catholic” or “Universal” church to be the “first” of at the time of Jesus’ conception or birth.

While he came to form the Church, it was not yet formed.:banghead:
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Well first of all a “Catholic” is a Christian. To be a Christian, one only need to have faith and be baptized with water and of The Spirit.

One could say that when Mary’s water broke, because Christ was submersed in it, it was Holy Water and that’s where she got “her” baptism by water…we already know that she was baptized by The Holy Spirit when it came upon her. So so far, that’s 2 out of 3. Now was she a “believer?” Of course she was. She believed in Jesus and in everything she was told He was “before” she even conceived Him.

So, by definition, she is a Catholic (a universal) Christian especially since she doesn’t belong to any “sect” of Christianity, but to The Christian Church from which all other sects came from.

Not only that, she is the “first” universal Christian.

My reverence is reverence “because” of those truths I listed. The truths came first and then I became reverent for her.

😃

👍
 
lepanto said:
Pope Benedict XIII lived from 1328 to 1423.

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This writer was referring to Bishop of Rome Benedict VIII who was so dependent on Germanic support and support of Imperor Henrich.

Your question for all believing Catolics seemed simple - was 1st Catolic perhaps Mary, John Baptizer, or perhaps Peter Apostle.

But for a non-Catolic the question is somewhat polemical. Mary (or John or Peter) may have been first Catolic Christian, but also first Orthodox Christian, Coptic Christian, Armenian Christian. All such churches were united Christian church up until some particular time. Therefore, Mary (or who else) was first for each. Therefore, it seems better to just ask who was first Christian.

To decide who was first Roman Catolic christian who was no longer Orthodox - Charlemagne not bad guess. To decide first Orthodox christian, not Roman Catolic - perhpas Mikhail Kerularios. To decide first Coptic Christian not Cafolic/Orthodox - perhaps Patriarch Dioskorus.

Discussion is most interesting when one realizes others see things slightly differently. Future christian unity will only come if all understand and try to see how we look at things differently. Just to say how things seem should not be taken as mean spirited, but just as confirmation but more discussion even on simple points is necessary.
 
If Pentecost is the birthday of the church, the first baptized Catholics/Christians were those who were baptized that day (presumably as Jesus had told the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). I don’t think Christian baptism existed before the Spirit was sent, which was after Jesus ascended to the Father.

If the descent of the Spirit was the beginning of the church, Mary would be the first among them to have personally encountered Jesus and believed and IMHO would be the first Catholic, although a case could be made for Peter.

I don’t think there is any mention in the bible of those who had been disciples of Jesus prior to Pentecost being baptized either before or after Pentecost. He had many disciples, other than those in the upper room. Maybe they were ‘grandfathered in’ the church??
 
Claire_from_DE said:
If Pentecost is the birthday of the church, the first baptized Catholics/Christians were those who were baptized that day (presumably as Jesus had told the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). I don’t think Christian baptism existed before the Spirit was sent, which was after Jesus ascended to the Father.

That’s true. And before there was Christian baptism,there could was no Church.

If the descent of the Spirit was the beginning of the church, Mary would be the first among them to have personally encountered Jesus and believed and IMHO would be the first Catholic, although a case could be made for Peter.

Her belief wouldn’t have made her the first Catholic,because there was no entity that could be described as a Catholic Church until Pentecost. No one can be catholic (universal) individually,outside of the Church.
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Since we aren’t told who the Spirit ‘landed on’ first at Pentecost, would the first Catholic be all of them, or whichever of them accepted Jesus first?
 
Claire_from_DE said:
Since we aren’t told who the Spirit ‘landed on’ first at Pentecost, would the first Catholic be all of them, or whichever of them accepted Jesus first?
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It would be all of them. We’re Catholic because we are in comminion with the whole.
 
anthony022071 said:
It did not actually come into existence until Pentecost.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20060604_pentecoste_en.html

< “The Church has been catholic and missionary from her birth. The universality of salvation is meaningfully manifested with the list of the numerous ethnic groups to which those who heard the Apostles’ first proclamation belonged (cf. Acts 2: 9-11).” >
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Granted, the “institutional” Church may not have come about till Pentecost, but that doesn’t mean that Mary wasn’t the first Catholic.
 
lepanto said:
Granted, the “institutional” Church may not have come about till Pentecost, but that doesn’t mean that Mary wasn’t the first Catholic.
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Exactly.

A Church doesn’t make a person a Christian, but their faith is what makes them a Christian.

All Christians were always universal Christians from the moment that Mary first believed.

(That is, until the 16th cenury)
 
Proof that Mary could NEVER be a Protestant…She believes in herself!

😃
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

Sorry, I don’t agree with you. Mary never, in my opinion, considered Jesus as God. She was a Jew and a firm believer in GodAllahYHWH.

The Holy Quran : Chapter 19: Maryam

[19:17] And relate the story of Mary as mentioned in the Book, when she withdrew from her people to an eastern place;
[19:18] And screened herself off from them. Then We (GodAllahYHWH) sent Our angel to her and he appeared to her in the form of a well proportioned man.
[19:19] She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’
[19:20] The angel said, ‘I am only a messenger of thy Lord (GodAllahYHWH), that I may give thee glad tidings of a righteous son.’
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=19&verse=10

Mary, in my opinion, considered Jesus only her son. She did not consider Jesus as Son of God or God.

Thanks
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  1. I really don’t understand how those above passages prove that St. Mary didn’t accept Jesus Christ as more than her son.
  2. My quote from the Gospel of St. Luke makes it exceedingly clear that she was referring to Christ. Look it up.
  3. Finally I would trust St. Luke’s account of what happened to be more factual, because he actually knew St. Mary. I don’t know who wrote those passages in the Koran, but I know that they did not know St. Mary.
 
lepanto said:
Good question. Maybe she didn’t need to be baptized because her immaculate conception protected her from original sin.

But then again, maybe she was baptized, but this simply was not recorded.
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I agree. Her Immaculate Conception protected her from the Original Sin and not everything that happened is recorded in the Gospels.
 
I don’t disagree that Mary may have been the first Christian, followed closely by Elizabeth.

But the idea that Mary was the first Catholic is just beyond me.

It seems on this forum, for some, that any inference that Mary wasn’t or isn’t something is taken as blasphemy.

Reading some of the above posts, I can see why our Prostestant brothers think that Catholics WORSHIP Mary.

🤷
 
I’ll chime in, I was talking about this the other days with my parents-in-law. I believe Mary was the first Christian/Catholic, like many of you do.
 
cascherman said:
I’ll chime in, I was talking about this the other days with my parents-in-law. I believe Mary was the first Christian/Catholic, like many of you do.
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Ok, fine.

Anyone…show me WHERE in scripture, church teaching, or tradition, where it says that Mary was the first Catholic.

No kidding, this thread is actually making me wonder about my own veneration of, or reverance toward Mary. Maybe I’ve been wrong all these years, and the Protestants are on to something.
 
Uncle_Norbert said:
Ok, fine.

Anyone…show me WHERE in scripture, church teaching, or tradition, where it says that Mary was the first Catholic.

No kidding, this thread is actually making me wonder about my own veneration of, or reverance toward Mary. Maybe I’ve been wrong all these years, and the Protestants are on to something.
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Ok let’s start. First lets show how St. Mary was the first to accept Jesus Christ.

“And Mary said: My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed, for the Mighty One has done great things for me–holy is his name.” (Luke 1:46-49)

This shows St. Mary’s acceptance of Christ and she describes herself as being blessed. St. Elizabeth says the same thing.

“Blessed is she who has believed that what the Lord has said to her will be accomplished!” (Luke 1:45)

This is St. Gabriel the Archangel speaking of St. Mary.

“The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (Isaiah 7:14) (Matthew 1:23)

This above passage refers to St. Mary as fulfilling prophecy.

The following passage refers to the Crowning of Mary in Heaven.

“A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.” (Revelation 12:1)

Also lets look at the Old Testament references to how great St. Mary is.

“Say to the king and to the queen mother, Come down from your thrones, for your glorious crowns will fall from your heads.” (Jeremiah 13:18)

Who is the Queen in Heaven. St. Mary of course.

“I have one small request to make of you, she said. Do not refuse me. The king replied, Make it my mother; I will not refuse you.” (1 Kings 2:20)

This is a parallel to Jesus and St. Mary.

If you have any other questions I would love to clear them up for you.
 
Uncle_Norbert said:
Ok, fine.

Anyone…show me WHERE in scripture, church teaching, or tradition, where it says that Mary was the first Catholic.

No kidding, this thread is actually making me wonder about my own veneration of, or reverance toward Mary. Maybe I’ve been wrong all these years, and the Protestants are on to something.
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I can show you…it’s right in the passage where they talk about The Holy Bible while discussing The Rapture and while dwelling on The Doctrine of The Holy Trinity.
 
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