Who was the Rock in Matthew 16:18?

[Carlan]

There might be different ways to look at Scripture and I am not at all scared to look at the possibility of Peter actually being the Rock, but I do not believe that he is

Janet, I am glad you are at least open to the Catholic Church’s teaching on this.

Even after all the arguments by one or the other scholar I am more likely to agree with the notion that Jesus Christ is the Rock and sole foundation of my faith. He is my Master, my Saviour, my King, my Shepherd, my Lord. To Him alone do I bow and He is the recipient of all my adoration, my worship, my prayer and my love.
He is giving me that which I do not deserve instead of that which I do deserve through His great Mercy and Grace. That is why I serve no other, follow no other and love no other. He bought me with a price. I am His slave

Yes, as Christians, all that is part of our worship, Which we do through his Holy Apostolic Church. Jesus the Bridegroom we the Bride, his Church. Carlan

 

[Janet1983]

Ok if you say so. I also am a revert. But when I was outside of the Church I did not consider myself Catholic even though I held onto most of the beliefs.

Just a side-note…
Well there is a difference between what someone defines himself and what the Catholic Church defines one as.
I do not consider myself to be Catholic, but ex-Catholic. The Catholic Church however would consider me a Catholic, though not in communion with her…
Through my confessed beliefs and actions I guess I have incurred a “latæ sententiæ” excommunication “by reason of the offence itself (eo ipso)”.

May God bless you.
In Him,
Janet

 

[HisWill777]

I would not presume to know the mind of God concerning the seriousness of any given sin.

Well the Church presumes to know, correct?

On topic, I believe that Peter is the Rock, and Christ founded His Church on Him. I’m having trouble following why that means others after Peter can claim infallibility, etc. Peter was an apostle of Christ, one of His Chosen. I don’t believe any men since, popes, saints, pastors, priests, scholars, etc. have approached that level of holiness. That is why we were left the Scriptures, to guide us, since all men and women ARE fallible.

I as a Christian am definitely for the idea of one Church, or the Catholic Church, I just have a hard time accepting all the rules created by men in the Church. This is exactly what Jesus railed against the Pharisees and Sadducees for.

Off topic, quick question, the Church has many saints and emphasizes Mary’s role, why aren’t the greats of the OT emphasized (Moses, Abraham, David, etc). Are any of these declared saints? Just curious.

 

[Janet1983]

Yes, as Christians, all that is part of our worship, Which we do through his Holy Apostolic Church. Jesus the Bridegroom we the Bride, his Church. Carlan

Well, I praise God for that which we have in common. Jesus Christ is our Messiah, our Lord, our Master, our Redeemer, our Comforter, our Saviour, our Advocate, our Bridegroom, our Shepherd, the Head of His Church, our Chief Priest, the Lamb of God, the great I AM, the Lord of Lords, our King, our Mediator, our Righteous Judge, our Life, the King of Kings, the Way, the Truth, the Life, our Teacher, our Spiritual Rock, the Bright and Morning Star, our GOD.
Or as Thomas said it so fittingly “My LORD and my God!”

The LORD bless you and keep you! The LORD let his face shine upon you, and be gracious to you! The LORD look upon you kindly and give you peace!

In Him,
Janet

 

[Masters_Servant]

***Well done

Peter in Greek has a gender bias [per Strong’s Concordence]

Petra is femine gender while “Petros”, which Christ used is male gender.

“petra” also means pebbles BUT “petros” means “ROCK”

Christ also refers to Simon-Peter as “Cephas”

Cephas [N] [H] a Syriac surname given by Christ to Simon ( John 1:42 ), meaning “rock.” The Greeks

---

Rock refers to the “foundation” of which Christ is the Cournerstone, while the 'foundation" that which is to be built upon is Peter…

John 10:16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Mt. 16: 15 ** He [Jesus] said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I singular] tell you, you are Peter, [singular] **and on this rock [singular] I will build my [singular] church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. **[singular] **19 I **[God singular] **will give you **singular] **the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you **[singular] **bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

**Eph. 2:19 **“So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, **[singular] **built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; **[singular] **in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

Love and prayers,

Pat

In Ephesians 2
The Cornerstone in ancient days was the first stone to be laid and it had to be perfect. Once that is laid, then the rest of the foundation can be laid, which started with the Prophets pointing to the “Corner Stone” (Jesus), then the Apostles to finish and reveal the Gospel foundation, which again is Christ. This also accords with Matthew 16 to all the Apostles and in the broader sense to all Christians in Matthew 18.

If their is any doubt to who Jesus claims is the foundation of His church, then this passage can stand firm on its own:
**
1Co 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.**

 

[Masters_Servant]

Well, I praise God for that which we have in common. Jesus Christ is our Messiah, our Lord, our Master, our Redeemer, our Comforter, our Saviour, our Advocate, our Bridegroom, our Shepherd, the Head of His Church, our Chief Priest, the Lamb of God, the great I AM, the Lord of Lords, our King, our Mediator, our Righteous Judge, our Life, the King of Kings, the Way, the Truth, the Life, our Teacher, our Spiritual Rock, the Bright and Morning Star, our GOD.
Or as Thomas said it so fittingly “My LORD and my God!”

The LORD bless you and keep you! The LORD let his face shine upon you, and be gracious to you! The LORD look upon you kindly and give you peace!

In Him,
Janet

Hello Sister,

I like the “slave” of Jesus Christ, which is the correct and better translation of “bond-servant” in your identification. Amen to the post as well. There is a book called “Praying the Names of Christ” or “Jesus”, but anyway, you might enjoy it.

God bless you and perfect you !

 

[rmcmullan]

***Who was the Rock ? ***is the wrong question. The right question is What is the Rock ?

“And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.” Peter’s knowledge, which was also that of his brethren, was of a kind apart from all that man may find out for himself; it was a divine bestowal, in comparison with which human wisdom is foolishness and the treasure of earth but dross,

Addressing Himself further to the first of the apostles, Jesus continued: “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Through*** direct revelation from God*** Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ; and upon*** revelation, as a rock of secure foundation, the Church of Christ was to be built.*** Though torrents should fall, floods roll, winds rage, and all beat together upon that structure, it would not, could not, fall, for it was founded upon a rock;[767] and even the powers of hell would be impotent to prevail against it. By revelation alone could or can the Church of Jesus Christ be builded and maintained;

Simon the son of Jonas, on the occasion of his first recorded interview with Jesus had received from the Lord’s lips the distinguishing name-title “Peter,” or in the Aramaic tongue “Cephas,” the English equivalent of which is “a rock” or “a stone” (John 1:42; see also page 140 herein). The name was confirmed upon the apostle on the occasion now under consideration (Matt. 16:18).

Jesus said to him “thou art Peter,” adding, “and upon this rock I will build my church.” In the course of the general apostasy subsequent to the ancient apostolic ministry, the Bishop of Rome laid claim to supreme authority as the alleged lineal successor to Peter; and an erroneous doctrine gained currency to the effect that Peter was the “rock” upon which the Church of Christ was founded. Detailed consideration of this inconsistent and infamous claim cannot be undertaken here; it is sufficient to say that a church founded or dependent upon Peter or any other man would be Peter’s or the other man’s church, and not the Church of Jesus Christ.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

To the OP: Peter
In 2010: Benedict XVI

 

[Lib_Christian]

How so?

They are two different classifications given to sins based upon the specific circumstances of any given sin.

So you do presume to know the mind of God concerning the seriousness of any given sin or you don’t? You presume my missing Mass last Friday was mortal sin, right?

 

[Carlan]

In the course of the general apostasy subsequent to the ancient apostolic ministry, the​

Bishop of Rome laid claim to supreme authority as the alleged lineal successor to Peter; and an erroneous doctrine gained currency to the effect that Peter was the “rock” upon which the Church of Christ was founded. Detailed consideration of this inconsistent and infamous claim cannot be undertaken here; it is sufficient to say that a church founded or dependent upon Peter or any other man would be Peter’s or the other man’s church, and not the Church of Jesus Christ.

What do you mean general apostasy?, and ancient apostolic ministry? are you saying that revelation wasn’t handed onto their successors after the last apostle John died.

That’s not right:shrug:Carlan

 

[Randy_Carson]

Under 18 still a child the last I checked. But oh brother you forget how much power these men wielded over the teens. We aren’t discussing the others. We are discussing the RCC.

Heh…okay.

What connection are you attempting to make between the priest scandal here in the United States in the second half of the 20th century and the establishment of the papacy by Jesus upon Cephas, or Peter (the rock), as recorded in Matthew 16:18?

(This ought to be interesting.)

 

[tweetymom]

Well, when it is convenient in the argument, you continually claim it is your faith that is being referred to in Mathew 16:18.
Other times you claim it to be Peter’s faith.
And at other times you claim Jesus himself.

So which of your statements am I to believe?
All three cannot be true at the same time.

Peter had faith who Jesus was as did the other apostles. So my faith in Jesus is the same as Peters faith in Him. Jesus is my rock of faith. Not Peter as the rock to build a Church. Now if you don’t get it perhaps you need help.

 

[Bill_Pick]

If you protest Catholic teaching you are not a Protestant? Do you know what a Protestant is? It’s one who Protests, and who protests Catholic teachings, etc. I think you have an awful lot to learn. You are truly embarassing yourself with some of your statements. By your logic I can claim to be a Buddahist or a Hindu without believing anything taught by Buddahism or Hinduism.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Is any one out there that can help you person

 

[Carlan]

**Because the interpretation that it is Peter’s Faith was the interpretation of most of the Christian Fathers of the Early Church! Read the previous mails.
Your own teachings,[Trent 1564] turns you to the fathers to interpret these words.
Maximos iv ,a Byzantine catholic tells us as late as 1984,“It is not proper to speak of the Pope as head of the Church,going on to say,the Church consists not only of Peter, but of the other apostles as well.” Fr, Victor Herbert, a Byzantine catholic Commentator of some note in the 1980s said,“It is not proper to speak of the Roman Pontiff as the head of the Church…the doctrine of primacy is true and not doubted” …but papal primacy flourished only after the lance of schism pierced the side of Christ’s 1054] Church…as a result many rights of the bishops have been taken by the Holy See".
Byzantine Catholic World, 1982!}
Are the Byzantine catholics protestant in any way?

The two people I have referred to are not Early Fathers, in fact they are quite modern ones, but it does show that the Roman Church is not as monolithic as some feel it should be. Is the front cracking do you think?**

Of course Jesus Christ is the head of the Church he founded, He chose Peter as the first Vicar on earth giving him the keys. The Church refers to the succeeding Popes as the Vicar of Christ on earth. Why make it so complicated.Carlan

 

[Javl]

If I have erred, you have yet to show where!

I have indicated many times, but you refuse to admit it. How do I get through to a closed mind that says “my mind is made up, don’t confuse me with facts!”?

Regarding my anti-catholic bias, I am a Catholic and follow the teaching of the fathers.

 

[TEPO]

Peters statment was his faith and that is what a Chuch is built on. Not on Peter personally. We are all Chjrist’s church, our faith in Him. If you don’t get it sorry. Cannot explain it any clearer. I am not hear to argue just stating what holds true.

If you are right, then every single Catholic, that has ever been, has been duped.

This would mean that Christianity would have spent its first 1500 years lying to its own Faithful. Who could stick with a religeon that spread throughout the world by means of lies? Even Protestantism would have stemmed from a lie.

Elimination of the Church is the agenda of satan.

Peter is Rock !

 

[TEPO]

Okay, to be fair --elimination of FAITH is the agenda of satan too…

**So Peter has to be the Rock… **

 

[TEPO]

Yes, I believe it is built on the Rock (Peter). However it says nothing about “if you don’t follow this Church (no matter what it claims because it’s leader is infallible) you will not be in Heaven. Even though in the pages and pages of Scripture I teach the Good News and that I came to save your souls, the whole Truth won’t be written in these Holy Spirit inspired documents, I only told Church leaders the true path to salvation. Don’t worry, they’ll pass this on to you, but men will argue about this for 2000+ years.”

How ridiculous would it be then for anyone to take the “torch” from a Church that spread throughout the world by means of lies.

If the Catholic Church were to “come to its senses” and become more protestant-like (which can never happen by the way), what would future generations think about Christianity in general…

It would be a joke.

Therefore, any attempts to knock Her down (the Church) comes not from the Holy Spirit, but from hell.

 

[Lib_Christian]

Heh…okay.

What connection are you attempting to make between the priest scandal here in the United States in the second half of the 20th century and the establishment of the papacy by Jesus upon Cephas, or Peter (the rock), as recorded in Matthew 16:18?

I thought I’ve addressed this. But if not, the coverup decreases faith in the hierarchy of which Peter supposedly was the 1st head honcho. I don’t believe Christ would have made some of the 2nd half 20th century hierarchy leaders of His church. Don’t really want to hear about Judas and Peter and human sin. You can believe it if you want. I can’t.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Don’t really want to hear about Judas and Peter and human sin. You can believe it if you want. I can’t.

Jesus spoke clearly about these things, but if you don’t really want to hear it, then nothing more can be said.