Who Will Probe The U.N.-Vatican Connection?

[Al_Masetti]

Interesting article … regarding concern over the connection between the United Nations and the Vatican:

aim.org/aim-report/who-will-probe-the-u.n.-vatican-connection/

 

[Rebelecka]

I must say that as I skimmed thru the article, I got the impression that the author wasn’t reporting the whole story; only the parts to prove his/her point. I felt like there was a lot of taking the Holy Fathers comments as bytes; in other words, out of context (just as some people do to the scripture).

Just my :twocents:

 

[DawnInTexas]

zenit.org/article-26581?l=english

"Find the Power to Forgive So That True Peace Can Emerge"

NEW YORK, JULY 29, 2009 (Zenit.org).- Here is the statement given Tuesday by the Holy See Delegation to the United Nations at a General Assembly debate on the report “Implementing the Responsibility to Protect.”

---

Mr. President,

Four years ago the largest gathering of Heads of State took place at the United Nations in order to bring attention to the need to create a United Nations system more capable of responding to the needs of an ever changing world. There world leaders adopted the World Summit Outcome Document, which affirmed especially the responsibility of all nations and the international community to protect people from the threat of genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity.

As outlined in the Document, the responsibility to protect is guided by three mutually reinforcing and supportive elements: first, the primary responsibility of every state to protect its population from genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity; second, the responsibility of the international community to help states build the capacity to exercise their primary responsibility, and third, the responsibility of the international community to take effective action when a state has failed to exercise properly its authority.

(Very interesting-3 Pillars—read at link!)

In addition to the role of national and international institutions, religious and community leaders have an important role in promoting the responsibility to protect. Too often in many regions of the world, ethnic, racial and religious intolerance have given rise to violence and killing of people. The exploitation of faith in the furtherance of violence is a corruption of faith and of people, and religious leaders are called to challenge such thinking. Faith should be seen as a reason to come together rather than divide for it is through faith that communities and individuals are able to find the power to forgive so that true peace can emerge.

While it took the international community many years and many lost lives to come to the agreement as expressed in the World Summit Outcome Document, it is my delegation’s hope that its implementation is done as fully as possible so that succeeding generations are spared the agony that genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity have caused the entire global community.

Thank you, Mr. President.

 

[terrysa]

Though I am no fan of the U.N., I am very wary of any self-appointed group calling themselves “Accuracy in Media.” This site puts me in mind of conspiracy theorists. I smell a rat…

 

[gardienbleu]

AIM has been around for about 40 years. Some online commentators have branded it as part of the vast right wing conspiracy along with other independent news outlets like WorldNetDaily.com and Newsmax.com. AIM is a United Nations watchdog and is not the only conservative news outlet to be critical of the Church. Conservative does not always mean Catholic-friendly.

 

[JReducation]

I’m sorry, but this article sounds like more of the same nonsense.

1. There is an entire movement out there who fails to believe in the power of Grace to transform not only individuals, but also entire organizations and nations. The Holy Father is basing his comments about the UN’s role in change on that faith, which should be part of the faith of every Catholic. “Nothing is impossible for God,” if man cooperates. Even the United Nations can change and be a force for good in this world.
2. The fact is that the world economy has gone global. We cannot deny this. Nor can we deny that the forces behind this global economy have exercised corruption and irresponsible stewardship over the resources that belong to all men, not just to the powerful and wealthy. The Holy Father’s recognition of this reality is based on a biblical teaching. “The truth shall make you free.” We have to acknowledge this truth in order to do something about it. We’re not going to turn back the clock and undo a global economy, but we can look for systems that ensure that economic development is just for all people.
3. In light of the fact that there are crimes committed against humanity every day and in every nation around the globe, it is also true that there needs to be a collaborative effort on the part of nations to put a stop to these. Those who form part of that body must have some kind of authority to enforce just treatment of all human beings. Given the fact that the UN was founded for the purpose of keeping peace among nations, brokering diplomatic agreements and helping to restore world order after two world wars, it is only logical that it fulfill its duty and its mission. Therefore, the Holy Father is doing two things. First, he is expressing support and faith in the founding principles of the UN. Why not? Those principles are noble. On the other hand, he is also calling for a renewal of the UN. You need not call the UN corrupt to call for a renewal. A renewal implies that the object to be renewed is no longer working. But rather than throw it out and begin from scratch, the Holy Father is proposing a conversion of the UN. Conversion is not an unknown theme in the Judeo-Christian experience. Man has been called to conversion since the fall of Adam.
4. Finally, there is a fear on the part of some people that we will lose our freedom and our independence. But unfortunately, some of these individuals only fear for the loss of freedom and independence of Americans. But this does not ring well with the Holy Father or with the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has great love for the United States, but she must also protect and secure the freedoms of other nations as well. That may mean that we have to make some sacrifices. It may not. The Holy Father’s goal is not to strip Americans of our freedoms, but to secure the same freedoms for all people. He puts Catholics on the moral line. He calls us to be like Paul and St. Francis of Assisi. He calls us to be willing to make sacrifices for the sake of others around the globe. In other words, he calls us to embrace the cross that we will have to carry in order to push our leaders to embrace other nations and include their welfare in our plans for human and economic development.

What the Holy Father is posting is not new. It is part of the ancient tradition of the Church dating back to the apostolic community in the Acts of the Apostles where all believers were “of one mind and placed everything they had at the foot of the apostles” to be distributed equitably among all. He calls us to create a society that Paul described where there is no Jew or Gentile, no slave or free man. In other words, he calls us to live in an eschatological society. The famous Franciscan lawyer and Chancellor, Thomas More wrote about this very same concept centuries ago based on his Franciscan spirituality.

I think that people are reading what they want to read into this encyclical, rather than reading the traditional teaching of the Church from time immemorial. I don’t see a Vatican-UN conspiracy in this encyclical. I encourage those who have not yet read the encylical to read it slowly from beginning to end before you allow others to interpret it according to their political agenda. It is not a political agenda. It is a call to renew the world As people of faith, we do believe that such renewal is possible.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[LoveJesus]

1. ** Finally, there is a fear on the part of some people that we will lose our freedom and our independence. But unfortunately, some of these individuals only fear for the loss of freedom and independence of Americans.** But this does not ring well with the Holy Father or with the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has great love for the United States, but she must also protect and secure the freedoms of other nations as well. That may mean that we have to make some sacrifices. It may not. The Holy Father’s goal is not to strip Americans of our freedoms, but to secure the same freedoms for all people. He puts Catholics on the moral line. He calls us to be like Paul and St. Francis of Assisi. He calls us to be willing to make sacrifices for the sake of others around the globe. In other words, he calls us to embrace the cross that we will have to carry in order to push our leaders to embrace other nations and include their welfare in our plans for human and economic development.

Amen! I notice that sentiment when I hear complaints about the encyclical. We have to realize that we are** a part** of the world and not just as the country on top.

 

[Tigg]

I think that people are reading what they want to read into this encyclical, rather than reading the traditional teaching of the Church from time immemorial. I don’t see a Vatican-UN conspiracy in this encyclical. I encourage those who have not yet read the encylical to read it slowly from beginning to end before you allow others to interpret it according to their political agenda. It is not a political agenda. It is a call to renew the world As people of faith, we do believe that such renewal is possible.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I have always respected your posts, JR, and have found them spiritual and enlightening. I think the majority of faithful Catholics on this forum want desperately to understand this document and, obviously, are having a very hard time doing so. It is complex and encompasses many things. But I do not agree with you that there are not deep political overtones (my opinion based upon what I have tried to read and understand,) and given the nature of the very serious political ramifications going on in this country at this time, just how is one expected to disregard their political identity (which, of course, would include part of an informed conscience based upon authentic church teaching.)

 

[JReducation]

I have always respected your posts, JR, and have found them spiritual and enlightening. I think the majority of faithful Catholics on this forum want desperately to understand this document and, obviously, are having a very hard time doing so. It is complex and encompasses many things. But I do not agree with you that there are not deep political overtones (my opinion based upon what I have tried to read and understand,) and given the nature of the very serious political ramifications going on in this country at this time, just how is one expected to disregard their political identity (which, of course, would include part of an informed conscience based upon authentic church teaching.)

No no no, I hope I didn’t mislead. I am not saying that the encyclical doesn’t have political overtones or that it does not have an effect on political society. In fact, it is intended to move political systems toward a moral end. What I’m saying is that it is not a political agenda. It is not about a political position of one system or another. I hope this is clearer.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[mpi]

I’m sorry, but this article sounds like more of the same nonsense.

1. There is an entire movement out there who fails to believe in the power of Grace to transform not only individuals, but also entire organizations and nations. The Holy Father is basing his comments about the UN’s role in change on that faith, which should be part of the faith of every Catholic. “Nothing is impossible for God,” if man cooperates. Even the United Nations can change and be a force for good in this world…

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

The logic in Item 1 implies that maybe we should release all of the rapists and murderers from prison and then pray that Grace fills their souls.

Maybe you are the one reading your political agenda into the Pope’s comments. He spends more time in the encyclical rebuking the anti-life agenda of NGOs than he does supporting global governance. I interpret his statements as possibly a call to replace, rather than reform the UN. IT certainly is not, in any case, an endorsement of the UN, or even reform of the UN.

 

[JReducation]

The logic in Item 1 implies that maybe we should release all of the rapists and murderers from prison and then pray that Grace fills their souls.

Maybe you are the one reading your political agenda into the Pope’s comments. He spends more time in the encyclical rebuking the anti-life agenda of NGOs than he does supporting global governance. I interpret his statements as possibly a call to replace, rather than reform the UN. IT certainly is not, in any case, an endorsement of the UN, or even reform of the UN.

Now you have shifted the focus of the conversation to me. This is not about me. It’s about the document. If you disagree with my understanding of the document, you are welcome to express your understanding of it. You may not, however, take me on or any other person on this forum.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[mpi]

Now you have shifted the focus of the conversation to me. This is not about me. It’s about the document. If you disagree with my understanding of the document, you are welcome to express your understanding of it. You may not, however, take me on or any other person on this forum.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Fair enough. I want to keep my post but we can pretend that I didn’t write the first sentence in the second paragraph.

 

[JReducation]

Fair enough. I want to keep my post but we can pretend that I didn’t write the first sentence in the second paragraph.

That sounds fair and more than fraternal. :hug1:

By the way, I would never believe that we should release criminals. But I do sincerely believe in the power of grace to transform situations, people and organizations, when man cooperates. The key here is getting man to cooperate.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[pnewton]

AIM has been around for about 40 years. Some online commentators have branded it as part of the vast right wing conspiracy along with other independent news outlets like WorldNetDaily.com and Newsmax.com. AIM is a United Nations watchdog and is not the only conservative news outlet to be critical of the Church. Conservative does not always mean Catholic-friendly.

Vast right wing conspiracy or vast left wing conspiracy. Different goals, same tactics.

No investigation is necessary. If they want to know what the Holy Father thinks, they could read the document instead of the parts of it that have been circulating among the new mainstream media, right wing version 2.01. It is not a political document. What I found enlightening in a poll I posted is how many people have an opinion without having read the document.

As to any connection, AIM, along with any other group is more than welcome to probe any connection they want. Maybe if they look deep enough the Holy Spirit will stir some hearts to conversion.

 

[JReducation]

Vast right wing conspiracy or vast left wing conspiracy. Different goals, same tactics.

No investigation is necessary. If they want to know what the Holy Father thinks, they could read the document instead of the parts of it that have been circulating among the new mainstream media, right wing version 2.01. It is not a political document. What I found enlightening in a poll I posted is how many people have an opinion without having read the document.

As to any connection, AIM, along with any other group is more than welcome to probe any connection they want. Maybe if they look deep enough the Holy Spirit will stir some hearts to conversion.

I don’t understand why people of faith have a difficult time believing that the UN or any other organization can change through the work of grace. The entire document is a theological statement about grace and its power. It begins with the assumption that grace can change all things if man cooperates and then proceeds to call on man to cooperate. So what’s the begi deal here?

I’m not referring to you Pnewton. I’m supporting your statement. People are discrediting this document without reading it and without proper education on its content. The truth is that the document has multiple layers of theology and should be studied with a theologian at the helm.

I’ve read it twice and I have found in it: ecclesiology, eschatology, scripture, soteriology, and moral theology. It was not written to be read like a novel.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[WillieWonka]

I don’t understand why people of faith have a difficult time believing that the UN or any other organization can change through the work of grace. The entire document is a theological statement about grace and its power. It begins with the assumption that grace can change all things if man cooperates and then proceeds to call on man to cooperate. So what’s the begi deal here?

I’m not referring to you Pnewton. I’m supporting your statement. People are discrediting this document without reading it and without proper education on its content. The truth is that the document has multiple layers of theology and should be studied with a theologian at the helm.

I’ve read it twice and I have found in it: ecclesiology, eschatology, scripture, soteriology, and moral theology. It was not written to be read like a novel.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

1. What organizations have changed through the work of grace?
2. And many people are criticizing elements of the document after careful reading. There is no reason to presume any have read it as a novel.
3. We do not need a theologian to read what the pope wrote. He’s a skilled communicator, and he addressed it to all people of goodwill.