Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

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bellasbane said:
Why don’t you click on my banner - that will explain a lot.
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I dont need to click you banner. Abortion is not a “womans” issuse. It is a human rights issue. If you vote for pro-abortion canidates you are supporting abortion.
 
Unless you vote Constitution Party, you are voting for a pro-abortion candidate.
 
“Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” (Ephesians 5:21-24).

We, as men, have an obligation to protect and serve, and that means abolishing abortion through laws. Saying we do not have the authority to tell a woman she cannot kill her unborn child is in contrast to Church Doctrine.
 
irishpatrick said:
I realized that–I placing a challenge to you since you have tried to challenge us. Name on issue (outside nuclear war) that is greater than abortion. If you cannot, then why are you arguing?
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Seriously, have you read my posts? I have never said that any one issue was “greater than abortion”. I have said that Catholics should consider candidates’ positions on all the issues. Catholics should also weigh such factors as whether a candidate will be able (or willing in some cases) to actually carry out the policy positions he or she puts forth. After doing that, a Catholic may determine that it is proper to vote for the candidate with a worse position on abortion despite (but not because of) that position. That is what I have consistently said, and I believe that is perfectly consistent with what the Church teaches.

It seems like lots of people here agree. I would point out, for example, that the current leader of the poll on this thread is the most pro-choice candidate in the poll. The second most pro-choice candidate (Ron Paul) is currently in second place. The third place person (Cain) says he is pro-life, but has not said how that would effect his policies and he has said little to suggest it is a focus for his campaign. If all Catholics believed that the only discriminator is abortion, I would expect Paul and Cain to both be near the bottom and Santorum to be winning easily as I believe he is the only candidate whose position on abortion matches the Church’s position. But it appears that nearly all the Catholics voting here have found that issues other than abortion have influenced the way they rank these candidates.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
I’ll buy that. Tories were conservatives, so to me, the liberals represent the true blue Americans. 😉
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Nice try…Tories were the ones who sucked up to government…couldn’t get enough of big government from England and just could not pay enough in taxes…you know because it was going to a good cause…cause George needed the money. As I alluded to earlier…some people( you) just process information differently. Conservatives today are ridiculed by liberals…Tea Party members are tagged with sexual insults by liberals and the left…“Tea Baggers”…haha…get it? Yeah…it is terible for someone to feel burdened by taxes and worse yet…the sqandering of that money by a government of elites who bribe the voters with their own money. Sorry…your analogy is not going to fly.
 
Demforlife said:
Unless you vote Constitution Party, you are voting for a pro-abortion candidate.
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Surely you are not suggesting there is a moral equivalence between a canidate who supports abortion only in the case of rape and incest and one who supports unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand?. We can not let the perfect be the enemy of the possible. If we throw away our votes on non-viable candiates we cede the issue to the perveyors of death. As Archbishop Chaput put it is not a choice of choosing the lesser of two evils-it is choosing to lessen evil
 
estesbob said:
Surely you are not suggesting there is a moral equivalence between a canidate who supports abortion only in the case of rape and incest and one who supports unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand?. We can not let the perfect be the enemy of the possible. If we throw away our votes on non-viable candiates we cede the issue to the perveyors of death. As Archbishop Chaput put it is not a choice of choosing the lesser of two evils-it is choosing to lessen evil
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So your position is that a Catholic can vote for a candidate who favors legal abortion is some circumstances; and also that a Catholic voter may consider the practical effect that the voter believes casting his or her vote will have on abortion and therefore vote for the more pro-choice candidate in some circumstances, so long as that candidate is not a Democrat. Do I have that right?
 
TMC said:
So your position is that a Catholic can vote for a candidate who favors legal abortion is some circumstances; and also that a Catholic voter may consider the practical effect that the voter believes casting his or her vote will have on abortion and therefore vote for the more pro-choice candidate in some circumstances, so long as that candidate is not a Democrat. Do I have that right?
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My postion is the position of the Church. When both canoidates support abortion to some extent we can support the one who is the least pro-abortion. Party has nothing to do with it.
 
bellasbane said:
Well, I disagree that abortion must be banned by the laws of men. Women do not need the laws of men to tell then not to have abortions - no women WANTS to have an abortion. It is a violation of natural law. Women have abortions out of ignorance, fear and coercion. If laws are needed, it is to protect women from these things, not to strip us of our dignity, and take away the trust God has given to us and put it into the hands of government.

God gave to women the responsibility to protect the most vulnerable of humans - FOR A REASON. We are best suited for it. He trusts us - maybe you should too. Help us to do our job and we will do what we have always done - protect our babies.

You may not like the New Feminism - but here it is.
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" …no woman wants to have an abortion…"
Sorry…but infanticide was extremely common in ancient times and especially in pre Christian Rome. There is nothing new about the “New Feminism”. Women also have abortions because it is convenient to their life style. Sounds ugly.it.is ugly but it should not be sugar coated. When you abort…it is YOU who strip away your dignity and the trust God gave to you and no one else. There are people who help with troubled women and a long line of couples wanting a child.
 
He_Man said:
But you support laws against rape and murder? You just said “if laws are needed, it is to protect women from these things…” So which is it? Do you need laws, or not?

And this part -

"not to strip us of our dignity, and take away the trust God has given to us and put it into the hands of government."

is just mellowdrama. Please. No one is trying to strip women of their dignity. They are trying to afford the unborn the dignity of being born, as God intended. Do you honestly believe that the goal of the pro-life movement at its core is first to rip away women’s dignity, and not to save babies lives? Again, don’t be so mellowdramatic.
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I’m not being melodramatic - that’s my thirteen year old daughter’s job.🙂

I might say you were being patronizing.:tsktsk:

Of course I believe the goal of the Pro-Life movement is to save babies lives - I’m part of the Pro-Live Movement! Where the tactics fail is when they undermine the dignity of women. Why do you think the culture wars exist? Where do you think motivates all the fight from the opposition? Women know they are being threatened.
 
hold it. if I look at a calendar it is still 2011. why are you asking soooooooooo early. I cannot in any way give you a answer until november of 2012. i have NO idea yet . its way too early. ask next year.
 
estesbob said:
My postion is the position of the Church. When both canoidates support abortion to some extent we can support the one who is the least pro-abortion. Party has nothing to do with it.
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How does that square with your reaction to the post about the Constitution Party? Why can you make the judgment that you need not vote for the more pro-life Constitution Party candidate, but another Catholic voter cannot make a similar determination about a GOP candidate. Sure seems like party has something to do with that position.
 
pismopal said:
" …no woman wants to have an abortion…"
Sorry…but infanticide was extremely common in ancient times and especially in pre Christian Rome. There is nothing new about the “New Feminism”. Women also have abortions because it is convenient to their life style. Sounds ugly.it.is ugly but it should not be sugar coated. When you abort…it is YOU who strip away your dignity and the trust God gave to you and no one else. There are people who help with troubled women and a long line of couples wanting a child.
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Ancient times, yeah women had real power then. I believe a husband could legally kill his wife in “pre Christian Rome”. No coercion there. :rolleyes:

Believe your twisted view of women - you obviously don’t understand us at all. If you begin with the premise that women can’t be trusted, then you are simply following the same line of thought that prevented us from getting the vote until 1920.
 
pismopal said:
Nice try…
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I stick to what I said.
Conservatives today are ridiculed by liberals.
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And liberals are never called names or ridiculed by the Right? Sure.
Tea Party members are tagged with sexual insults by liberals and the left…“Tea Baggers”…haha…get it?
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Those people used that term themselves in the beginning. They didn’t know until it was pointed out to them that it’s a sexual term. So, they weren’t tagged; they tagged themselves.
Sorry…your analogy is not going to fly.
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Just not with you.
 
estesbob said:
My postion is the position of the Church. When both canoidates support abortion to some extent we can support the one who is the least pro-abortion. Party has nothing to do with it.
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I will support the candidate who is more Pro-Life, which I believe is the position of the Church. Sometimes that’s a hard calculus to compute.

Peace 🙂
 
SwordandShield said:
“Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” (Ephesians 5:21-24).

We, as men, have an obligation to protect and serve, and that means abolishing abortion through laws. Saying we do not have the authority to tell a woman she cannot kill her unborn child is in contrast to Church Doctrine.
Click to expand...
Jesus did what his mother told him to do.
 
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