Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

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Prodigal_Son1 said:
He definitely speaks against ‘formal cooperation’. But does not ‘forbid’ voting for a candidate for other reasons.

I have not, and have not seen anyone else, argue that Obama as ‘real’ pro-life.
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As expected-its never “specific” enough for you
 
estesbob said:
Can you point to a single Bishop who said their proportionate reasons that would’ve allowed for a Catholic to vote for Barack Obama? There is no explanation, no church document, that anyone can post a that you will accept. The documents the quotes have been posted ad nauseam and all we get in return is either they are not specific enough or one can ignore them if their conscience tells him otherwise. I know I’m not going to convince you t for the lurker’s in CAF please bear in mind that those who tell you that you canlicitly to vote for pro-abortion candidate are misleading you and trying to put you in conflict with your Church
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No, don’t come back with not specific or ignored. I asked for a specific definition, that you said had been posted ad nauseum. I have repeated the request several times, even through the added spins.

The bishops were split and I found it shameful the way the Church split itself to argue which bishop was wrong and which was right. I don’t have all that information now. It’s been 4 years and I am willing to bet we’ll see it again this year.

It’s those putting politics before faith that put me in conflict with my Church. I vote as the Church instructs and I don’t judge anyone else as our Church teaches. I saw the peripheral issues being discussed; gun control, healthcare, taxes, immigration, etc. etc. There were other issues that drove many of the strong arguments last election. If it’s not for the right reason solely as presented, it’s not right.
 
estesbob said:
As expected-its never “specific” enough for you
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As expected, reading it through a biased eye…see, did that get us anywhere? Enough is enough bob. I’m voting for Ron Paul, because I truly believe he is pro-life and represents other issues important to the Church. I think I see the BIG picture and weigh ALL the issues.

Pray, use a faith formed conscience, and vote how your conscience leads you. I believe God’s will will be done.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
As expected, reading it through a biased eye…see, did that get us anywhere? Enough is enough bob. I’m voting for Ron Paul, because I truly believe he is pro-life and represents other issues important to the Church. I think I see the BIG picture and weigh ALL the issues.

Pray, use a faith formed conscience, and vote how your conscience leads you. I believe God’s will will be done.
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Not a faith formed conscience–that could be anything. Rather, a properly formed “Catholic” conscience. Do that, for real, and see who you vote for then. 🙂
 
irishpatrick said:
Not a faith formed conscience–that could be anything. Rather, a properly formed “Catholic” conscience. Do that, for real, and see who you vote for then. 🙂
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Are you saying I cannot vote for Ron Paul? That’s what I posted in the post you quoted. Or are you making more assumptions?
 
estesbob said:
for the lurker’s in CAF please bear in mind that those who tell you that you canlicitly to vote for pro-abortion candidate are misleading you and trying to put you in conflict with your Church
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I assume that “the lurkers” have minds of their own, and can decide on the basis of what has been posted or linked to or discussed what position in line with their consciences they will take.
 
irishpatrick said:
Sure, and an assumption based on hundreds, perhaps thousands of discussion during which pro-abortion people reoutinely justify away Church teachings.
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You said, ‘I think they would have said that the Pope cannot usurp their personal right of conscience.’

It is a speculative assumption at best, or do you have a crystal ball? Come on people, there is no honesty in discussions using those tactics. It surely wouldn’t change my mind and I doubt anyone else is being influenced
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
… It surely wouldn’t change my mind and I doubt anyone else is being influenced
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Code: 
How often do people actually change their minds?  It seems most threads on political topics are dialogues of the deaf with no true dialogue.
😦
 
irishpatrick said:
Not a faith formed conscience–that could be anything. Rather, a properly formed “Catholic” conscience. Do that, for real, and see who you vote for then. 🙂
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I already know whom I’d vote for on the basis of a properly formed Catholic conscience - neither Obama nor whomever the GOP trots out as their candidate. 👍
 
estesbob said:
I suspect you’re right. We have not yet had the “primacy of conscience” canard tossed out in this thread but I am sure there will not be long.
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Nah, but the proportional reasoning has already surfaced. I am still trying to figure out which reason to vote for Barack Obama was more important than the fact that he seems to enjoy allowing women to kill their infants in utero.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Ron Paul, the only candidate to show up for the right to life rally in Washington, D.C. prior to the last presidential election.
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I would go for Ron Paul for the same reason. The fact that Obama is winning this poll is extremely depressing to me.
 
Neildown said:
I would go for Ron Paul for the same reason. The fact that Obama is winning this poll is extremely depressing to me.
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Winning? He only has 35% of the poll. IN a few days he’ll be down to 27% where he belongs.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Seems Ratzinger didn’t use the word ‘forbidden’.

“A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”

The Holy Father didn’t explain proportionate reasons.
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No, he didn’t. But the US Bishops did give us a list of topics to consider. Thankfully, the majority of voters can read both what was written by the Pope (before he was pope, as quoted above) and the guidelines put out by the Bishops and that will help them to cast their vote.
 
Romney would be my choice. Basically, I will vote for anyone running against Obama.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Reluctantly, Obama. While he hasn’t been kind to my line of work in many ways, at least he’s the only thing standing in the way of the Republicans destroying social security and medicare to turn them into cash cows for the for-profit insurance crooks and the private 401K gambling outfits. He caught Osama, which is more than I could say for Bush and company. Hopefully he’ll wrap up these two disastrous wars, get the economy back on track, and thwart all the pro-rich anti-working class nonsense the GOP is aspiring to dish out on this country.

Palin is so off the table I’d rather vote for Pee Wee Herman. The rest don’t have a prayer, especially Romney who is basically Obama trying to reinvent himself as a conservative. Pawlenty is a dud. Gingrich is a hypocrite. Mike Huckabee, though I disagree with him in several areas, is basically a good and decent man most of the time. But he decided not to run. Bachman is like Palin with even less knowledge and intelligence.

The GOP field looks pretty sad. Truly a least among evils situation.
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Not to be an instigator, but if its “the lesser of multiple evils” anyone is better than Obama. He caught Bin Laden [hurrah!] but it was Bush that got our guys searching for him in the first place anyway. Otherwise, Obama has made NO progress whatsoever with the economy, unless you want to call it “reverse progress”. If he hasn’t been able to fix it with his first four years [you know, the four that came after he won the election - *after he was preaching to the multitudes and being made out to be God’s left-hand man by the media] I highly doubt he will fix it with another four. Not to mention almost, if not all, of his administrators are scumbags. Also, have you seen how education is going? True, we’ve been plummeting since before Obama, but he isn’t doing anything to help - instead he’s got children in grade-schools singing about him! [just go to youtube and type “kids singing about Obama”, there is more than 1 result you may notice] Furthermore, just to sum things up, Obama is definitely not good at making friends [England, Israel, Ireland] he’s pro-choice, and he dared to touch the Second Amendment.

We have worse things to worry about than insurance crooks.
 
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