Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

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bbarrick8383 said:
I don’t see all GOP candidates that way, obviously not Ron/Rand Paul. I haven’t been following politics long enough to know whether or not Inhofe or Coburn are, but Inhofe doesn’t seem to be. It sucks for those who live in areas where there isn’t much difference between the Democrat and the Republican other than being pro-life.

For POTUS though, we gotta work with what we got. If it doesn’t look like Ron can get the votes(I’d love for him to), I’m going for whichever Republican can. I’ll be shot before I vote for a Democrat, mainly because of abortion.

The only way I’d ever support a Democrat, nationally, is if they were the pro-life party. I’d hate to do it, but I’d put my ideology aside and do my part to protect the unborn.
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As the point has been copiously made before, Tea Party/libertarian type candidates will be allowed in Congress and the Senate, but the Country Club will not allow one of these to sit in the White House. There is too much control at stake.
 
ishii said:
I think Estesbob is devoted to the idea that Catholics should vote for the pro-life candidate. Your continued twisting of what he says speaks volumes about the moral bankrupcy of your position.

Ishii
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It is really the only argument the Catholic who supports pro-abortion candidates can advance. . When one places politics before faith. this is the kind of twisted thinking that must occur. It is, by the way, very effective tactic in that it generally pushes the discussion away from them having to defend the abject evil they support.

All I ask is that people review this thread to see that those expressing the teachings of the church have done so with voluminous and specific documentation while those who say the church allows one to vote for a pro-abortion candidate offer nothing more than opinion and one line snippets from church documents that one must accept their personal interpretation of.

My recommendation for those defending the truth is ignore the misdirection and continue to firmly state the truth.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
He’s telling them how they should vote as faithful Catholics.
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Telling them to vote Republican, that is, of course. No room for a faithful Catholic to vote Constitutional Party or other anti-abortion party, it seems.
 
Raskolnikov said:
A mere 1/110,000,000 influence is so pitifully insignificant that I cannot bring myself to see abstaining from voting in the general election is sinful any more easily than I could bring myself to believe that Ihave a moral obligation to accuse every person I walk by on the street wearing Nike shoes of enslaving African children.
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I agree.

I would note that the trouble with a vote for the Republicans is that it only encourages them. 😉
 
Raskolnikov said:
Personally, I see voting as a pretty meager way to oppose evil. A mere 1/110,000,000 influence is so pitifully insignificant that I cannot bring myself to see abstaining from voting in the general election is sinful any more easily than I could bring myself to believe that Ihave a moral obligation to accuse every person I walk by on the street wearing Nike shoes of enslaving African children. I suspect there are many people who vote and “I did what I could do” but then fail to do what they can do to combat evil in other areas of their life…

Also, while one evil may be lesser than the other, I can’t shake the feeling that accepting the lesser evil is in itself a form of appeasement, as I think the ultimate solution to the problem of abortion lay elsewhere. To use a rather esoteric an analogy, it’s like supporting Franz von Papen against Naziism. If Papen was the only hope to save the republic, then there probably wasn’t any hope at all.
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An astonishing statement. It’s like excusing oneself from contributing to charity because one’s own contribution can’t possibly end all the hunger in Haiti. Your vote might be all you have, but the “widow’s mite” was all she had, and Jesus was far from disparaging it or saying she shouldn’t have bothered.

Does anybody really think “I was opposed to abortion, but I didn’t even get up off my duff and vote against its promoters because I only had one vote (or because my favored candidate wasn’t nominated)” satisfies one’s moral obligation to oppose evil?

Failing to oppose evil when one has any means at all to do so is to be complicit with it.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Telling them to vote Republican, that is, of course. No room for a faithful Catholic to vote Constitutional Party or other anti-abortion party, it seems.
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The face of the Republican party is changing. The country club folks, the rinos…they are on the way out. The Rand Pauls and Marco Rubios are on their way in. The best shot we got is changing the face of the Republican part, not voting third party.

Voting third party is like a poor person gambling, they hope to get rich but it’s more than likely going to end up a waste of money.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
There’s also something called voting on principle.
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Absolutely. And to some, supporting Obamacare or adding to the cost of energy is a more important principle than fighting the slaughter of innocent children.

And to some, the more important principle is a petulant demonstration that “it’s my candidate or nothing, so I’ll help the abortion candidate by refusing to oppose him”.

Everybody votes on some kind of principle. But the important question is the nature of the principle you’re acting on.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
The face of the Republican party is changing. The country club folks, the rinos…they are on the way out. The Rand Pauls and Marco Rubios are on their way in. The best shot we got is changing the face of the Republican part, not voting third party.

Voting third party is like a poor person gambling, they hope to get rich but it’s more than likely going to end up a waste of money.
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Ever been in an expensive urban country club? There are AT LEAST as many liberals there as there are conservatives.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
There’s also something called voting on principle.
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Yep, and you can educate a poor person on the true nature of gambling and hope that they stop and keep their money and put it to a much better use.

That’s what estesbob is doing.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Ever been in an expensive urban country club? There are AT LEAST as many liberals there as there are conservatives.
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Not really, I’ve been to some but I wouldn’t call them expensive. LOL

I helped wire a house in Boca Grande, FL. That’s about the most expensive gated community I’ve ever been in.
 
i know I’m super late to this thread how can president obama have the majority of the votes on a CATHOLIC Board.

I understand its one dem vs many GOP but come on.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Absolutely. And to some, supporting Obamacare or adding to the cost of energy is a more important principle than fighting the slaughter of innocent children.
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There are such. Not all American voters are anti-abortion.
And to some, the more important principle is a petulant demonstration that “it’s my candidate or nothing, so I’ll help the abortion candidate by refusing to oppose him”.
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That last is wrong. Those who would vote for Chuck Baldwin’s conservative principles vis-a-vis constitutionalism need have no guilt about their not voting for the GOP. Are they petulant except to diehard GOPers?
 
bbarrick8383 said:
Yep, and you can educate a poor person on the true nature of gambling and hope that they stop and keep their money and put it to a much better use.
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I agree. But, it’s so hard to convince people that they only hurt themselves by clinging to the GOP and that they would put their votes to better use than by voting for the Republicans…
 
bbarrick8383 said:
The face of the Republican party is changing. The country club folks, the rinos…they are on the way out. The Rand Pauls and Marco Rubios are on their way in. The best shot we got is changing the face of the Republican part, not voting third party.

Voting third party is like a poor person gambling, they hope to get rich but it’s more than likely going to end up a waste of money.
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So, I should consider people who can’t support Ron Paul part of the Country Club Republican crowd. I’ve looked at the issues and the positions and track record of the candidates. Ron Paul is the one I estimate to be most in line with Catholic moral, social, and economic teaching.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
So, I should consider people who can’t support Ron Paul part of the Country Club Republican crowd. I’ve looked at the issues and the positions and track record of the candidates. Ron Paul is the one I estimate to be most in line with Catholic moral, social, and economic teaching.
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yep there are some minor issues with him but I doubt you can find one candidate that is eye to eye with church teaching.

the things that worry me with Paul is this view on legalization of weed, and the fact that he thinks abortion should be a states decision.

other thsn that he is a great candidate, and sees eye to eye with the church.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
So, I should consider people who can’t support Ron Paul part of the Country Club Republican crowd. I’ve looked at the issues and the positions and track record of the candidates. Ron Paul is the one I estimate to be most in line with Catholic moral, social, and economic teaching.
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NOT good enough for some arbiters of voting correctness on this Forum!
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
I agree. But, it’s so hard to convince people that they only hurt themselves by clinging to the GOP and that they would put their votes to better use than by voting for the Republicans…
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Your arguments aren’t very convincing as you come across as a political idealogue first and foremost. Your HATERED for anything related to the GOP colors all of your posts.
 
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