Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

[Scott_Lafrance]

yep there are some minor issues with him but I doubt you can find one candidate that is eye to eye with church teaching.

the things that worry me with Paul is this view on legalization of weed, and the fact that he thinks abortion should be a states decision.

other thsn that he is a great candidate, and sees eye to eye with the church.

Alcohol is legal. Weed is safer and has a broader range of legitimate medical uses. Ironically, hemp (part of the cannibis family) was a staple cash crop in the US for hundreds of years and hemp oil is being discovered as a miracle supplement.

 

[antonivs]

Alcohol is legal. Weed is safer and has a broader range of legitimate medical uses. Ironically, hemp (part of the cannibis family) was a staple cash crop in the US for hundreds of years and hemp oil is being discovered as a miracle supplement.

Also it can be used for other industrial uses (cloth, paper, rope) decreasing deforestation.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Your arguments aren’t very convincing as you come across as a political idealogue first and foremost. Your HATERED for anything related to the GOP colors all of your posts.

Not hatred. I find Republican voters most misguided, that’s all.

As to the Party, I think it disastrous for our nation - and that’s as far as I’ll go on the road of hatred. You might notice that if there is any political party that is HATED, it is the Democratic Party by the GOP supporters on the Forum. Their descriptions of my party go far beyond the simple aversion I have for the GOP and as far as coloring their posts, it does so in almost every case…

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Also it can be used for other industrial uses (cloth, paper, rope) decreasing deforestation.

Right, hemp is one of the most beneficial aggricultural products out there, but is forbidden from being grown because of this stupid prohibitionistic attitude we have here in the States.

 

[catholictiger]

Alcohol is legal. Weed is safer and has a broader range of legitimate medical uses. Ironically, hemp (part of the cannibis family) was a staple cash crop in the US for hundreds of years and hemp oil is being discovered as a miracle supplement.

maybe someone can back me up but I thought the church is against the legalization of drugs. I could be wrong but the circle of friends I have would appose lieglization

You oppose legalization?

I think that’s the aim, for everyone. We already have a federal decision approving it across the board.

yes I do

and on the abortion comment. I think the aim to make abortion illegal federally not just on the state level. Its possible that Abortion could be illegal in lets say ohio, and one state over it is legal. Abortion because it deals with a right to life, is an issue that should be dealt with on the national level.

it should be the ultimate goal to make it illegal in every state in every country. The best way to do that here I think its to make it illegal federally. If states make abortion legal or illegal as they please, we will never see 100% illegal abortion in this country.

btw I’m very much a Ron Paul supporter, I just have a couple of minor objections to his views.

Also did you guys watch him dominate the debate this week. It was amazing.

 

[catholictiger]

Right, hemp is one of the most beneficial aggricultural products out there, but is forbidden from being grown because of this stupid prohibitionistic attitude we have here in the States.

I would be ok with growing it as long as it is illegal to use it for recreation

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I would be ok with growing it as long as it is illegal to use it for recreation

Are you okay with people drinking alcohol recreationally? You know that Prohobition created more criminals and social problems than it fixed, right? Al Capone created a criminal empire because of prohibition. He was on of the people who fought vociferously AGAINST its repeal! Yes, Al Capone wanted to keep prohibition in place, because if alcohol was made legal and available, he would be put out of business.

 

[catholictiger]

Are you okay with people drinking alcohol recreationally?

yes

The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

CCC 2291

Alcohol isn’t a drug and I don’t think has the negative side effects drugs have.

btw have you ever seen Requiem for a dream?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

maybe someone can back me up but I thought the church is against the legalization of drugs.

You are wrong. Alcohol is a drug and the Church asks only that it be used in moderation. Same with tobacco. The Church has no official position on marijuana. There, I’d think that it would follow its guiding principle on such things - use in moderation. The Church is not a “Temperance Church.”

and on the abortion comment. I think the aim to make abortion illegal federally not just on the state level. Its possible that Abortion could be illegal in lets say ohio, and one state over it is legal. Abortion because it deals with a right to life, is an issue that should be dealt with on the national level.

Good luck pursuing that goal. Even ardent pro-lifers know that the route to abolition is a state by state one. Don’t bite off more than one can chew.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

yes

CCC 2291

Alcohol isn’t a drug and I don’t think has the negative side effects drugs have.

btw have you ever seen Requiem for a dream?

Alcohol most certainly is a drug, and that is why if you use too much of it and drive a car, you can be put in jail. Nicotine is a drug, as is caffeine. Sugar is as addictive as heroine. So, when do we start to outlaw all of these items too? And the CCC states that these things are morally grave. That is moral teaching. It also teaches that co-habitation is gravely immoral. When are we going to work on outlawing that? Missing Church on Sunday is a grave sin. Are we going to make it illegal to miss Sunday Mass?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Alcohol isn’t a drug and I don’t think has the negative side effects drugs have.

Ethyl alcohol is most certainly a drug, and its effects are more serious than marijuana.

 

[antonivs]

Ethyl alcohol is most certainly a drug, and its effects are more serious than marijuana.

Exactly right. I once had to call an ambulance to save a teenager’s life who was dying from alcohol poisoning. I would be very surprised if anything similar has happened to someone smoking pot.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Exactly right. I once had to call an ambulance to save a teenager’s life who was dying from alcohol poisoning. I would be very surprised if anything similar has happened to someone smoking pot.

generally speaking, if you smoke “too much” weed, you get a hankering for fried chicken and a nap.

 

[catholictiger]

You are wrong. Alcohol is a drug and the Church asks only that it be used in moderation. Same with tobacco. The Church has no official position on marijuana. There, I’d think that it would follow its guiding principle on such things - use in moderation. The Church is not as “Temperance Church.”

Good luck pursuing that goal. Even ardent pro-lifers know that the route to abolition is a state by state one. Don’t bite off more than one can chew.

read CCC 2291 and get back to me.

and the ulitmate goal is a federal one.

If a unborn human being is considered by law to be human. According to the declaration of independence.

edit found it amendment 5 and amendment 14

I think amendment 14 extends it to the states.
If we have a right to life it should be up to the government to make sure that those rights are protected.

 

[catholictiger]

Alcohol most certainly is a drug, and that is why if you use too much of it and drive a car, you can be put in jail. Nicotine is a drug, as is caffeine. Sugar is as addictive as heroine. So, when do we start to outlaw all of these items too? And the CCC states that these things are morally grave. That is moral teaching. It also teaches that co-habitation is gravely immoral. When are we going to work on outlawing that? Missing Church on Sunday is a grave sin. Are we going to make it illegal to miss Sunday Mass?

some of the things you bring up becuase of our law we have in this country, some of those can’t be made illegal.

the drugs at stake are far more addictive then alcohol or caffeine.

they are extremely harmful, and evil. I believe we should do what we can to make it illegal.

But let me make this clear, this one position doesn’t make me hate Ron Paul, I think he is the best candidate we have.

Also I need to go may come back to this later.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

read CCC 2291 and get back to me.

and the ulitmate goal is a federal one.

If a unborn human being is considered by law to be human. According to the declaration of independence.

edit found it amendment 5 and amendment 14

I think amendment 14 extends it to the states.
If we have a right to life it should be up to the government to make sure that those rights are protected.

If I am not mistaken, the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade stated explicitly that since they could not make the determination that an unborn human has tpersonhood status, then it is a private decision between a woman and a doctor and that if Congress extended human rights to the unborn and recognized the unborn as equal to the born, then Roe v. Wade would be moot.

 

[catholictiger]

in this article the Vatican is sited in saying this.

The priest also cited the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Health Care Ministry, whose pastoral handbook “Church, Drugs, and Drug Addiction” teaches that cannabis use is “incompatible with Christian morality” because it is an intoxicant that dims reason and potentially is damaging to the integrity of one’s body and soul.

Read more: ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/US.php?id=2012#ixzz1PXxqqR3u

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The priest also cited the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Health Care Ministry, whose pastoral handbook “Church, Drugs, and Drug Addiction” teaches that cannabis use is “incompatible with Christian morality” because it is an intoxicant that dims reason and potentially is damaging to the integrity of one’s body and soul.

That is the opinion of one Vatican agency which does not have magisterial authority. It’s like the USCCB. Worth listening to, and to ponder, but with no obligation to do what it says.

 

[catholictiger]

If I am not mistaken, the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade stated explicitly that since they could not make the determination that an unborn human has tpersonhood status, then it is a private decision between a woman and a doctor and that if Congress extended human rights to the unborn and recognized the unborn as equal to the born, then Roe v. Wade would be moot.

btw the current make up of the supreme court if an abortion issue came up. Like a person-hood amendment would overturn it in support of Row v. Wade.

if RVW is ever overturned it should be made illegal across the board, not done by a state by state level.

Also a state shouldn’t pass a law right now to make abortion illegal it will make it more difficult if it reaches the USSC to overturn RVW.

many states have trigger laws meaning when RVW is overturned abortion becomes illegal. Abortion is stuck as it is in all states, untill RVW is overturned.

once it is overturned congress should pass a law to make abortion illegal in all 50 states.

The federal government has a duty to protect all human life. Which is made clear in the Constitution and the deceleration of independence. So if this is their job their duty abortion should be illegal across the board. That cannot be done on a state by state level.

 

[bbarrick8383]

So, I should consider people who can’t support Ron Paul part of the Country Club Republican crowd. I’ve looked at the issues and the positions and track record of the candidates. Ron Paul is the one I estimate to be most in line with Catholic moral, social, and economic teaching.

I agree with you, unfortunately we don’t have a couple hundred Ron Paul’s to go around in Congress. I would most definitely support the man if he get’s the GOP nod. But that’s it, he’s going to have to get the GOP nomination and that’s why he’s part of the Republican party. He knows a third party, at this point in time is a waste of time. Unless he, Sarah Palin, Marco Rubio, Christ Christie, Rand Paul and other major national political figures get togethor and announce they are creating a third part, which Palin said it may come to that recently, then our dreams of voting for someone other than a third party are going to remain just that. Paul can’t do it by himself, you and I voting for someone who can not win is not going to do it.

Ron Paul, imo, is an intellectual of the common sense type. Palin is a common sense type, Paul can run circles around her in the intellectual department. But it’s leadership that Palin has, and with folks like them getting togethor, even if they disagree on some issues, that’s going to kick the McCains, Grahams and all those to the curb.