Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

[estesbob]

You asked Estesbob if he was finally going to prove that Ron Paul believes that “businesses should be allowed to deny service to people based on any factor including the color of their skin?”

When he does exactly that, instead of conceding the point, you try to spin it.

That quote was explicit but it was a from his son Rand. It is interesting however how quickly the Paul supporters rationalize what he said. The truth is that Ron Paul believes the federal government has no business requiring private businesses to serve anyone regardless of race, creed, gender country national origin. Again that sounds like a great exercise in personal liberty unless you’re the black family sitting in the restaurant parking lot wondering where you going to eat because you we been turned away because they don’t like the color of your skin.

 

[jam070406]

I deleted the post . Like his father however he claims to oppose discrimination but doesnt think the government should prohibit it. nice attitude for those who are white and have never been denied service-not such a nice attitude if one is Black

Do you beleive the goveerment should be able to forbid Buisnesses to deny service to people based on their race, creed, gender or country of national origin? Do you beleive ron Paul supports the right opf the govt to do this?

Your post however does show why so many of us in the pro-life movement are uncomfortable with Ron Paul’s political philosophy you claim Rand Paul personally opposes discrimination, but does not believe the government has any right to forbid it. This is the same argument we have heard from liberal Catholics for 30 years as to why it’s okay for a politician to support abortion as long as he personally opposes it.

Is it Rand’s fault that there are racist people? Why do you demonize Rand and not place the blame on the actual stupid philosophy that thinks people of color shouldn’t be allowed in restaurants?
Actually it’s more akin to people who put up with the KKK spewing their hate because they don’t want their free speach taken away too.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Do you believe it is appropriate for the government to forbid private businesses to deny service people based on their race, creed, gender country national origin? Do you deny that Ron Paul believes the government should not have this right?

Do you believe that a person has a right to his own and dispose of his/her own property in the manner of his/her choosing and the right to freely contract with people whom he/she chooses?

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

I think folks here would do well to remember the public responsibilities of businesses which afford public accommodation. It is not government intrusion into private activity, but basic responsibility of dealing with the public since such businesses enjoy government promotion of their activities.

Private associations can do what they want but should be known for how they act.

Anyone who thinks the Civil Rights Act was government intrusion ignores the fact that we had de jure racial discrimination in the US. There already was government intrusion and it was highly negative.

 

[estesbob]

Is it Rand’s fault that there are racist people? Why do you demonize Rand and not place the blame on the actual stupid philosophy that thinks people of color shouldn’t be allowed in restaurants?
Actually it’s more akin to people who put up with the KKK spewing their hate because they don’t their free speach taken away too.

So you now admit that I was correct all along-that Ron Paul does believe the government has no right to tell private businesses they cannot discriminate based on race, creed, gender country national origin. Don’t worry, I know I won’t get an apology

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

That quote was explicit but it was a from his son Rand. It is interesting however how quickly the Paul supporters rationalize what he said. The truth is that Ron Paul believes the federal government has no business requiring private businesses to serve anyone regardless of race, creed, gender country national origin. Again that sounds like a great exercise in personal liberty unless you’re the black family sitting in the restaurant parking lot wondering where you going to eat because you we been turned away because they don’t like the color of your skin.

And you don’t think that this problem can be solved without the federal government? Wow, you have terribly little faith in people to do the right thing, or apparently you have more faith in government than your neighbors.

 

[estesbob]

Do you believe that a person has a right to his own and dispose of his/her own property in the manner of his/her choosing and the right to freely contract with people whom he/she chooses?

I do not believe a business has a right to deny service to people based on their race, creed, gender or country national origin. How about you??

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

So you now admit that I was correct all along-that Ron Paul does believe the government has no right to tell private businesses they cannot discriminate based on race, creed, gender country national origin. Don’t worry, I know I won’t get an apology

If we have the right to our property, then NOT the government does not have the right to tell us what to do with it. The government exists to protect rights, not to dictate the use of property.

 

[estesbob]

It took almost 1000 posts, but we finally smoked out the Ron Paul supporters-they finally admit that Ron Paul opposes the government forbidding racial discrimination. Now they have moved into rationalizations stage.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I do not believe a business has a right to deny service to people based on their race, creed, gender or country national origin. How about you??

Yes, I do. I think it is terribly stupid, but in a free society, people have the right to be stupid. Are you in favor of the federal government making it illegal to be stupid?

 

[estesbob]

If we have the right to our property, then NOT the government does not have the right to tell us what to do with it. The government exists to protect rights, not to dictate the use of property.

So, Scott, why have I been mocked throughout this thread by you and other Ron Paul supporters for my claim that Ron Paul believes a business should be able to discriminate against people based on the color of their skin?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

It took almost 1000 posts, but we finally smoked out the Ron Paul supporters-they finally admit that Ron Paul opposes the government forbidding racial discrimination. Now they have moved into rationalizations stage.

No rationalizations. You are a big government Republican. It took 1000 posts to get that out of you.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

So, Scott, why have I been mocked throughout this thread by you and other Ron Paul supporters for my claim that Ron Paul believes a business should be able to discriminate against people based on the color of their skin?

Ron Paul, and I, believe that business owners should have the right to do whatever they want with their own property.

 

[ExLibris]

We support our legitimate allies. When have we had to do anything for Israel? From my recollection, we sell them arms, they do their own fighting.

Not to mention we sell weapons and give foreign aid to Israel’s greatest enemies.

I think there’s an argument to be made for Israel benefiting under a Paul Administration.

Pakistan, which is certainly no friend to Israel, received $18 billion in aid from us (however that source is from India, which may not be reliable for Pakistani intellgience).

articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-02-23/pakistan/28138643_1_civilian-aid-counterinsurgency-capability-fund-civilian-assistance

Look at the list of U.S. foreign aid:
vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

How many of those countries are friends to Israel? How many are outright hostile to Israel?

Paul says he wants to cut or dramatically reduce foreign aid. I think everyone can agree that we should stop giving foreign aid to enemies of Israel.

 

[jam070406]

So, Scott, why have I been mocked throughout this thread by you and other Ron Paul supporters for my claim that Ron Paul believes a business should be able to discriminate against people based on the color of their skin?

You showed that Ron Paul thinks it is wrong to discriminate against people based on the color of skin

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Not to mention we sell weapons and give foreign aid to Israel’s greatest enemies.

I think there’s an argument to be made for Israel benefiting under a Paul Administration.

Pakistan, which is certainly no friend to Israel, received $18 billion in aid from us (however that source is from India, which may not be reliable for Pakistani intellgience).

articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-02-23/pakistan/28138643_1_civilian-aid-counterinsurgency-capability-fund-civilian-assistance

Look at the list of U.S. foreign aid:
vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm

How many of those countries are friends to Israel? How many are outright hostile to Israel?

Paul says he wants to cut or dramatically reduce foreign aid. I think everyone can agree that we should stop giving foreign aid to enemies of Israel.

I think we should stop giving foreign aid to just about everyone.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

You showed that Ron Paul thinks it is wrong to discriminate against people based on the color of skin

Apparently, it should be against the law to be wrong.

 

[ExLibris]

Apparently, it should be against the law to be wrong.

That does seem to be the argument the Statists use. However, I find it hard to reconcile Catholicism with this.

If I could get to Heaven by keeping the law of man, what use do I have for God?

Invariably, they’ll throw out the abortion issue, but that doesn’t work if we -rightfully- recognize life as beginning at conception. No one could violate the right of the unborn.

 

[tomarin]

We support our legitimate allies. When have we had to do anything for Israel? From my recollection, we sell them arms, they do their own fighting.

We also provide moral support for them when almost everyone else in the world is hostile to them. We veto resolutions condemning them in the U.N. General Assembly. My impression of Mr. Paul is that he would throw Israel to the wolves. I don’t think he thinks that we have any special relationship with or responsibility to Israel, or with any foreign country. For better or for worse, non-interventionism amounts to us becoming Switzerland.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

That does seem to be the argument the Statists use. However, I find it hard to reconcile Catholicism with this.

If I could get to Heaven by keeping the law of man, what use do I have for God?

Invariably, they’ll throw out the abortion issue, but that doesn’t work if we -rightfully- recognize life as begging at conception. No one could violate the right of the unborn.

You’ll never hear an arguement from me against this. For all of my libertarian sensibilities, I recognize that life, humanity, and personhood begin at conception and that no one has the right to end that life. In fact it is my sacred duty to fight to protect them that cannot protect themselves.