Who Will You Vote For in 2012?

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estesbob said:
So we are in agreement that Ron Paul believes that businesses should be able to refuse service and employment to people based on the color of their skin or any other factors the business owner decide to take into account?
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Yes.
 
Big_Ro said:
Oh, BTW, Perry still the presumptive 2012 Republican nominee is threatening a second special session of the TX Legislature. This may further prolong his entry in to the race. He is getting a lot more attention by not only the media but from operatives and prominent Republican leaders. I think Bachman has a 50-50 shot, worst case, at winning Iowa regardless of whether Perry is in it or not. Perry though will easily win SC and give Romney a run for his money in NH presuming he hasn’t imploded by then.

And Pataki made noises he may enter the race. Shouldn’t the field be in a winnow down phase rather than growth trend?
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I think Perry is making a huge mistake pushing the anti-sanctuary city law-which will not really result in any change in law enforcement, but will hurt GOP chances among Texas Hispanics .
 
estesbob said:
So we are in agreement that Ron Paul believes that businesses should be able to refuse service and employment to people based on the color of their skin or any other factors the business owner decide to take into account?
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Okay, prolife and against imaginary possibilities of racism. Please list other issues important to you.,.,
 
Big_Ro said:
Well, now that we’ve established, beyond doubt, that Ron Paul would allow racial discrimination, can we get back to the race for the Presidency?

Bachman seems to have all the momentum. There was another thread that was shut down very quickly. I’m not sure if the subject is banned or offends the sensibilities of the mods, so I’ll try and bring it up somewhat gently and apologize in advance if I run afoul of forum rules.

It was stated that Mrs. Bachman belongs to a church that espouses some teachings regarding the Pope that, I would think, all Catholics woudl find alarming. There was a link to a doctrinal document of her church, presuming she actually does belong to that Church, that stated clearly and unequivocally in the first sentence an accusation of the Vicar of Rome being the anti-christ. Shouldn’t this disqualify her from consideration for the Catholic vote? Is this a hoax? Is this guilt by association?

Gingrich is done. Soooooooooo done.

Romney seems to have peaked. Refusal to sign Susan B. Anthony Pledge and comments on Afghanistan have him on the defensive.

Pawlenty’s epic wimp-out at the debate makes him a long-shot.

Huntsmzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Oh, sorry about that. What are your thoughts. And, credit where credit is due. Good job Bob ferreting out that little tid bit about Ron Paul. I had no idea.
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Thanks to Bob for proving that Ron Paul is not racist and actually believes discriminating against someone based on the color of skin is wrong. 👍
 
ExLibris said:
Yes.
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Thank you. I disagree with that view. But at least you are willing to admit, unlike other Ron Paul supporters in this thread, that it the view that Ron Paul holds. My belief is that a man that holds a political philosophy that would lead him to allow such an egregious situation (race discrimination) to continue makes me suspect that he will not be a good leader.

I would vote for him if he was nominated. However, because Obama holds views on race relation relations that are the polar opposites of Paul’s. Both views are damaging to the country, in my opinion
 
ExLibris said:
More importantly, what right did you have to his services and product?

I imagine you think because you bought a ticket to get into this concert you had the right to buy all of the services and wares inside of it. This may have very well been the case or it might not have. Again, you have to look at the agreements between a private vendor and the concert promoters or whatever they call them. Or, if it was a stadium, what is their policy on this?

And pray for that bartender.
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I’m not sure what his relationship was to the people who organized the concert, rented the hall, sold me the tickets, etc. I don’t think he was a vendor. I guess your point is he’s within his legal rights to be a bigot as long as government funds weren’t used to promote the concert. My point is that it’s a visceral feeling to be denied something simply because of who you are and your appearance.
 
Ron Paul states he opposes the law as written, but it gives plenty of dishonest opportunities to paint him in a dark light. I guess it’s politics as usual, even among voters, to use whatever is necessary to support your own ideals, even if for some reason you refuse to discuss them. :rolleyes:
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Okay, prolife and against imaginary possibilities of racism. Please list other issues important to you.,.,
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He holds the view that racial discrimination is wrong, but does not believe the government has any business in trying to forget it. I am not comfortable that when push comes to shove the same political philosophy would lead him to not aggressively push for the elimination of abortion in this country. He is the loss reminds me way too much like a typical Democrat Catholic politician who tells us he personally opposes abortion but does not believe the government should ban it.

Of course, is simplistic , unworkable solutions to the economic problems in this country and foreign-policy would also give one pause to vote for him. It doesn’t really matter though, because he hasn’t got a chance of getting the nomination.
 
estesbob said:
Thank you. I disagree with that view. But at least you are willing to admit, unlike other Ron Paul supporters in this thread, that it the view that Ron Paul holds. My belief is that a man that holds a political philosophy that would lead him to allow such an egregious situation (race discrimination) to continue makes me suspect that he will not be a good leader.

I would vote for him if he was nominated. However, because Obama holds views on race relation relations that are the polar opposites of Paul’s. Both views are damaging to the country, in my opinion
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I can respect that as well as some uneasiness with his views.

Just know that he does what he does not out of hate for others but out of love (for property rights)! 😃
 
estesbob said:
Thank you. I disagree with that view. But at least you are willing to admit, unlike other Ron Paul supporters in this thread, that it the view that Ron Paul holds. My belief is that a man that holds a political philosophy that would lead him to allow such an egregious situation (race discrimination) to continue makes me suspect that he will not be a good leader.

I would vote for him if he was nominated. However, because Obama holds views on race relation relations that are the polar opposites of Paul’s. Both views are damaging to the country, in my opinion
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Yes, we should definitely blame Ron Paul for the individual actions of others.
 
estesbob said:
He holds the view that racial discrimination is wrong, but does not believe the government has any business in trying to forget it. I am not comfortable that when push comes to shove the same political philosophy would lead him to not aggressively push for the elimination of abortion in this country. He is the loss reminds me way too much like a typical Democrat Catholic politician who tells us he personally opposes abortion but does not believe the government should ban it.

Of course, is simplistic , unworkable solutions to the economic problems in this country and foreign-policy would also give one pause to vote for him. It doesn’t really matter though, because he hasn’t got a chance of getting the nomination.
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yea, right…:rolleyes:

Well, we know what will happen if he isn’t nominated if the wrong nominee is put forth and people can’t get behind them. We’ll hear the same thing as we’ve heard since the last election, it’ll be everyone else that will bear the blame.

Oh, nice dodge on discussing those other ‘important’ issues you find a need to support…
 
estesbob said:
I think Perry is making a huge mistake pushing the anti-sanctuary city law-which will not really result in any change in law enforcement, but will hurt GOP chances among Texas Hispanics .
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I don’t know much about that particular issue, but I presume your right. It’s interesting, GWB, especially while TX Gov, was very popular amongst Tejanos, my preferred term, and seen as friendly to the community. He enjoyed tremendous support. I think this helped him garner a larger share of the so called hispanic vote when he ran for President. That he maybe backed off of that as President is old news and not really worth debating. Perry, on the other hand, is seen as very unfriendly to Tejanos and very unpopular in the community. It will be interesting to see what impact this has on his chances nationwide. I think it’s fair to say that the Republican Party has garnered an image, rightly or wrongly, of being antagonistic to minorities rights, in general. There is widespread belief within the community that the anti-immigrant perspective in the Republican Party is thinly veiled bigotry. You can argue it’s not true, but you know that perceptions are reality.
 
Big_Ro said:
I don’t know much about that particular issue, but I presume your right. It’s interesting, GWB, especially while TX Gov, was very popular amongst Tejanos, my preferred term, and seen as friendly to the community. He enjoyed tremendous support. I think this helped him garner a larger share of the so called hispanic vote when he ran for President. That he maybe backed off of that as President is old news and not really worth debating. Perry, on the other hand, is seen as very unfriendly to Tejanos and very unpopular in the community. It will be interesting to see what impact this has on his chances nationwide. I think it’s fair to say that the Republican Party has garnered an image, rightly or wrongly, of being antagonistic to minorities rights, in general. There is widespread belief within the community that the anti-immigrant perspective in the Republican Party is thinly veiled bigotry. You can argue it’s not true, but you know that perceptions are reality.
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The problem is when they picked meaningless fights like this one. George Bush was indeed very popular with Hispanics-Rick Perry seems to be going out of his way to offend them.
 
estesbob said:
The problem is when they picked meaningless fights like this one. George Bush was indeed very popular with Hispanics-Rick Perry seems to be going out of his way to offend them.
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Yes, indeed. And, I and almost every Tejano I know believes that it is the right and duty of a sovereign nation to protect and defend the borders; and push back against all illegality. Still, the approach and rhetoric of many conservative anti-immigration activists and poltiicians gives me pause. And, they fail to differentiate between illegal aliens and people like me and my children that may be negatively affected by some of the policies. Extremeism is the problem. The cancer in our body politic. I was shocked indeed to hear good old Newt says so in the last debate. Goes to show, no one is all bad. 😉

And, BTW, this is not an issue that is very high on my list. Another annoying part of modern politics. If I’m “hispanic” then surely this has to be the one and only issue I care about. Please.
 
Big_Ro said:
I don’t know much about that particular issue, but I presume your right. It’s interesting, GWB, especially while TX Gov, was very popular amongst Tejanos, my preferred term, and seen as friendly to the community. He enjoyed tremendous support. I think this helped him garner a larger share of the so called hispanic vote when he ran for President. That he maybe backed off of that as President is old news and not really worth debating. Perry, on the other hand, is seen as very unfriendly to Tejanos and very unpopular in the community. It will be interesting to see what impact this has on his chances nationwide. I think it’s fair to say that the Republican Party has garnered an image, rightly or wrongly, of being antagonistic to minorities rights, in general. There is widespread belief within the community that the anti-immigrant perspective in the Republican Party is thinly veiled bigotry. You can argue it’s not true, but you know that perceptions are reality.
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I guess that explains why GWB would never take a hard stand on securing the border. I’m sorry, but by not securing the border and endangering American lives for the sake of appeasement to minorities and winning elections is just plain wrong! In the last presidential election, anything associated with GWB became toxic for Republicans anyway.
 
elgar said:
I guess that explains why GWB would never take a hard stand on securing the border. I’m sorry, but by not securing the border and endangering American lives for the sake of appeasement to minorities and winning elections is just plain wrong! In the last presidential election, anything associated with GWB became toxic for Republicans anyway.
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Neither party wants to secure the border. The Democrats want the borders open because they think that if they can get them legalized Hispanics will end up voting for them. Republicans want the border open, because they see them as a source of cheap labor.

I personally believe we’re going to have to find a path for citizenship towards the 12 million illegal aliens are arty live there but that we must secure the border before we do this.
 
elgar said:
I guess that explains why GWB would never take a hard stand on securing the border. I’m sorry, but by not securing the border and endangering American lives for the sake of appeasement to minorities and winning elections is just plain wrong! In the last presidential election, anything associated with GWB became toxic for Republicans anyway.
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I’m sorry. Which monorities are you talking about? Can you explain how, we minorities are opposed to meaningful and effective border security?

You see it’s these types of throw away statements that alienate people and prevent meaningful discussions about how to deal with a very serious problem. We in Texas have been grapling with immigration issues since the early 1800’s.

We have a great deal to risk as this nascent civil war between the impotent Mexican governement and the drug lords spills in to our streets and neighborhoods. Have you seen what’s been happening in GA? There’s a better way. Anyway, like I said, I don’t want to be drawn in to a debate on immigration. I have bigger fish to fry.
 
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