Who would be happy if every parish had to have a TLM Mass

[goofyjim]

I’m a doctor in private practice in a geriatric specialty in a predominantly Catholic region. I’ve treated about 7,000 people over the past decade. The majority of these patients, probably 65 to 70%, are practicing Catholics. The average age is 70.

I have crucifixes in every room. And I have had signs asking for donations of old Latin-English missals for several years. (Over the last several years, I’ve received about 100 Latin-English missals.)

These things combine to make my Catholic patients comfortable talking about the Traditional Latin Mass.

Here’s the facts, at least among my several thousand Catholic geriatric patients.

About 25% don’t ever want the Latin Mass to return. They never understood it and like it better now.

About 50% don’t care enough to even offer an opinion either way.

About 15% would like at least the opportunity to have access to the Traditional Latin Mass.

About 10% mourn the loss of the Traditional Latin Mass immensely. They get teary eyed when they talk about it. They spontaneously break into snippets of the Latin they recall off the top of their heads.

And they look over their shoulders. They are paranoid. They have been conditioned by subtle persecution to NEVER discuss this subject. they’ve been conditioned to never bring it up with their priests, and definitely never with a bishop or cardinal. If the subject was ever broached, they were bullied and mocked into silence for 40 years now.

But guess what?

The supply of old Latin-English missal donations have dried up. Those who thought to dig them up, now say, “I’m going to keep it. I can’t give it away. I know there’s a chance now that some day I’ll get to use it again.”

The people were browbeaten into silence on this issue, but now that there is a glimmer of hope, they are asking, yearning, and learning to speak up again. Yes, the Cardinals, bishops and priests can “honestly” claim there is no demand. They succeeded in forcing the desire for it to be silenced for a long time.

But now the Pope himself told them its OK. Glares and mockery from local priests and hierarchs will no longer succeed in suppressing this yearning and longing for sacred, holy, Latin liturgies.

It will take a little while, but this is a tidal wave that will build and never be turned back.

And I sincerely hope it does but not to the extent of wiping out the NO.

 

[elt1956]

Okay folks, I have just read all the posts. It has been so long ago that TLM was changed to the New Mass, I suppose people call it, I have forgotten why it was changed in the first place. Would someone enlighten me here please?

 

[Joannm]

And there’s the rub. I have never, ever heard anyone in my church or any other Catholic church complain that we should go back to Latin…NEVER, EVER…and the parishes I’ve belonged to are fairly “traditional” by today’s standards.

CAF is the only place I’ve ever encountered people demanding, or rueing the lack of, Mass in Latin.

We have had one person in a parish of 3000 families ask if we could have a Latin Mass. We have at least three in our diocese, and soon to be a fourth. The pastor directed her to those parishes.

 

[LRThunder]

No, not all of the priests know Latin. Very few of the parishoners would know it, either. There is not a big demand for it in our area.

But the Church isn’t a democracy. Anyway, there wasn’t a big demand for the current Mass back in the 1960’s-1970 either.

I’d settle for not having to drive 160 miles in one direction or 200 miles in another direction to attend a EF Mass, even if every parish doesn’t offer one.

 

[Gertabelle]

I consider myself a very devout and pretty conservative Catholic. I read the CCC on a regular basis, and I follow its teachings. I pray the rosary, visit with Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, and attend daily mass when possible.

I also am driven to distraction by the “drama” and awful music at my nearest Catholic church. And I sometimes (maybe one song every couple months) have to play that horrible “jolly Jesus” music as the piano accompanist at a parish 20 minutes from here. It gives me something to offer up

That being said, the one time I attended a TLM at a parish 15 minutes away, I was truly struck by its beauty. But I was also aware that I was an observer rather than a participant. I had no idea of what I was praying. I was left with simply hearing the English in my head as the priest said the Latin.

My intellect needs to be involved in my participation of the mass. Unfortunately, even with a master’s degree in my pocket and a doctorate on the way, I don’t speak or understand Latin.

In my area, the celebration of the TLM is within an hour drive from even the farthest suburb without one. I don’t think requiring it at every parish is necessary in these parts.

Gertie

 

[Cat]

I consider myself a very devout and pretty conservative Catholic. I read the CCC on a regular basis, and I follow its teachings. I pray the rosary, visit with Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, and attend daily mass when possible.

I also am driven to distraction by the “drama” and awful music at my nearest Catholic church. And I sometimes (maybe one song every couple months) have to play that horrible “jolly Jesus” music as the piano accompanist at a parish 20 minutes from here. It gives me something to offer up

That being said, the one time I attended a TLM at a parish 15 minutes away, I was truly struck by its beauty. But I was also aware that I was an observer rather than a participant. I had no idea of what I was praying. I was left with simply hearing the English in my head as the priest said the Latin.

My intellect needs to be involved in my participation of the mass. Unfortunately, even with a master’s degree in my pocket and a doctorate on the way, I don’t speak or understand Latin.

In my area, the celebration of the TLM is within an hour drive from even the farthest suburb without one. I don’t think requiring it at every parish is necessary in these parts.

Gertie

Thank you for a very honest and reasonable post.

Our parish has 7000 people and two priests. We have nine masses each weekend, along with the daily Mass that is offered on Saturday morning. We also have Masses twice daily during the week.

I think asking Father to learn the Latin and train the people to do the TLM would be just one more thing on his never-ending list of things to do to minister to all the people in his parish.

We have had a TLM in our city since the mid 1980s. It is attended by a faithful but smallish group of people. Most of the thousands of Catholics in our city attend Mass in their own language (English, Spanish, Polish, and sometimes Italian). There doesn’t seem to be a lot of demand for TLM in our city.

And in case you’re wondering if the Catholic Church in our city has any power–well, my husband and I, along with hundreds of others, are converts from evangelical Protestantism. I think the Holy Spirit is working through the NO Mass.

I say we trust our Bishops to know what is best for their flock rather than trying to do a job that we are not called or ordained to do.

 

[CatholicCajun]

No, not all of the priests know Latin. Very few of the parishoners would know it, either. There is not a big demand for it in our area.

Same here. As far as I know (which may not be that far ) we have only 1 or 2 Priests in our diocese that know Latin. Most of the younger parishoners ones don’t know it either, myself included. But I would like to have it to have the opportunity to learn it.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I’m a doctor in private practice in a geriatric specialty in a predominantly Catholic region. I’ve treated about 7,000 people over the past decade. The majority of these patients, probably 65 to 70%, are practicing Catholics. The average age is 70.

I have crucifixes in every room. And I have had signs asking for donations of old Latin-English missals for several years. (Over the last several years, I’ve received about 100 Latin-English missals.)

These things combine to make my Catholic patients comfortable talking about the Traditional Latin Mass.

Here’s the facts, at least among my several thousand Catholic geriatric patients.

About 25% don’t ever want the Latin Mass to return. They never understood it and like it better now.

About 50% don’t care enough to even offer an opinion either way.

About 15% would like at least the opportunity to have access to the Traditional Latin Mass.

About 10% mourn the loss of the Traditional Latin Mass immensely. They get teary eyed when they talk about it. They spontaneously break into snippets of the Latin they recall off the top of their heads.

And they look over their shoulders. They are paranoid. They have been conditioned by subtle persecution to NEVER discuss this subject. they’ve been conditioned to never bring it up with their priests, and definitely never with a bishop or cardinal. If the subject was ever broached, they were bullied and mocked into silence for 40 years now.

But guess what?

The supply of old Latin-English missal donations have dried up. Those who thought to dig them up, now say, “I’m going to keep it. I can’t give it away. I know there’s a chance now that some day I’ll get to use it again.”

The people were browbeaten into silence on this issue, but now that there is a glimmer of hope, they are asking, yearning, and learning to speak up again. Yes, the Cardinals, bishops and priests can “honestly” claim there is no demand. They succeeded in forcing the desire for it to be silenced for a long time.

But now the Pope himself told them its OK. Glares and mockery from local priests and hierarchs will no longer succeed in suppressing this yearning and longing for sacred, holy, Latin liturgies.

It will take a little while, but this is a tidal wave that will build and never be turned back.

Thank you and God Bless.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

I consider myself a very devout and pretty conservative Catholic. I read the CCC on a regular basis, and I follow its teachings. I pray the rosary, visit with Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, and attend daily mass when possible.

I also am driven to distraction by the “drama” and awful music at my nearest Catholic church. And I sometimes (maybe one song every couple months) have to play that horrible “jolly Jesus” music as the piano accompanist at a parish 20 minutes from here. It gives me something to offer up

That being said, the one time I attended a TLM at a parish 15 minutes away, I was truly struck by its beauty. But I was also aware that I was an observer rather than a participant. I had no idea of what I was praying. I was left with simply hearing the English in my head as the priest said the Latin.

My intellect needs to be involved in my participation of the mass. Unfortunately, even with a master’s degree in my pocket and a doctorate on the way, I don’t speak or understand Latin.

In my area, the celebration of the TLM is within an hour drive from even the farthest suburb without one. I don’t think requiring it at every parish is necessary in these parts.

Gertie

Hi Gertie,

I do think the more often one attends a TLM the more easily one will be able to follow along in the missal and even to start picking up on the Latin. Further, obviously there are resources to learn Latin and one need not learn the entire language, but rather the Latin that would pertain to the liurgy (and Ecclesiastical Latin is easier to learn than classical). Anyone on their first few times at a TLM is probably going to have difficulty following along, it takes some getting used to.

 

[elt1956]

We have had one person in a parish of 3000 families ask if we could have a Latin Mass. We have at least three in our diocese, and soon to be a fourth. The pastor directed her to those parishes.

Hi. I think it’s called the Generation Gap. One gets used to what one is exposed to, until wanting another option. I am repeating myself, but I was raised in the generation of Catholics that had only the Latin Mass. As a child I grew to love it and feel secure in it. As an adult, I missed it and felt less secure with the New Mass. I adjusted. BUT both traditions of Mass are THE MASS. I think folks of the younger generation would look quite befuddled if all they heard was Latin at Mass.

Would I like to hear a Latin Mass once in awhile? I sure would. However, I don’t think the New Mass which is all the younger people know, should be done away with and as far as I know, there is no intention of doing so.

 

[elt1956]

Hi Gertie,

I do think the more often one attends a TLM the more easily one will be able to follow along in the missal and even to start picking up on the Latin. Further, obviously there are resources to learn Latin and one need not learn the entire language, but rather the Latin that would pertain to the liurgy (and Ecclesiastical Latin is easier to learn than classical). Anyone on their first few times at a TLM is probably going to have difficulty following along, it takes some getting used to.

Hello Gertie. When I was a child and had only the Latin Mass to attend, we used missals that had the Latin on one side of the book and the English on the other. It was quite easy to follow along and translate. I hope those Parishes going with the Latin Mass remember to do this as without it one would feel quite “left out”. I do remember being at Mass once in Spain “during” Vatican II and being grateful the Mass was being said in Latin and not Spainish. I still felt at “home”.

 

[elt1956]

I’m glad we agree. Maybe we can start a peacemaking process of healing within the Church. Maybe they will invite you and I to Vatican III as lay observers.

Can I go along??? Would love to hear your thoughts on “healing” within the church. I think a lot has been broken within and without. Somehow, Christ’s message to “love one another” has been left out on some of these forums.

 

[elt1956]

I certainly would not.

The old liberals today were young men who celebrated the TLM - the ones who farted around, mumbled and did it badly and without dignity then, are going to do it that way now. Likewise Fr. Feelgood at Satin Kumbayah (who abuses the tar out of the NO!) is going to just abuse the TLM.

It is too beautiful a rite to leave to that. As it stands now, the preists who care enough to celebrate it, are taking care of it. At love for it grows, so will their ranks. But if you told the priests I grew up around in Saint Suburb they had to celebrate the TLM… I can only imagine what they would do to it.

I was really shocked when I understood that “some?” priests today don’t know Latin. I would love to hear the opinions about the Latin Mass from Priests who have been ordained in the last forty, or so, years. How would they handle it? If the priests leave the matter of having a Latin Mass up to the parishioners, it will be the first instance of Democracy I have seen in the Catholic Church.:

 

[elt1956]

No, not all of the priests know Latin. Very few of the parishoners would know it, either. There is not a big demand for it in our area.

As I mentioned in another post, when I was a child eons ago, we had only the Latin Mass. The missals were written with Latin on one side of the book and English on the other, so it would be no problem in translating. I hope someone in the higher ups remembers this. But, I think the Latin and New Mass should be in each Parish.

 

[elt1956]

The late 60’s?

But, isn’t that when we got our English language paraphrase of the what the prayers of the Mass actually say. And isn’t that when in one week every parish switched from Gregorian chant to drums and guitars and hymns set to the tune of the Brady Bunch theme song? (the 1st Sunday of Advent, 1969)

Now, the early 60’s! That would be the way to go.

James

HOW did that happen? Did the hierarchy of the church MAKE us do that? Seriously, I would like to know. Thanks.

 

[Conservative]

“oh, no…if my “modern” church has to have a Latin Mass, your TLM church has to have a Mass in the vernacular…”

I don’t think I want to go your “modern” Church whether I prefer the Mass in vernacular or not. Don’t like the sound of it at all.

I’d originally bowed out of this thread since I could hear the thunder roaring louder with each reply!

But first, let me clarify that it’s not the “Latin” Mass. You could have Novus Ordo Mass said in Latin, (i.e. Mass of the Angels) However, with the Tridentine Latin Mass (usually referred to here as “TLM”) it’s much more than just the language. It’s content. I’m almost confident that where TLM is currently the only Mass said, the NO wouldn’t be attended in high (if any) numbers - because the reason for initiating TLM parishes is that’s what people were looking for - Tridentine Latin Mass - with all the content and reverence attached to it. Why would they be coming to NO?

What would happen in NO parishes where people have now adjusted to the vernacular and other changes? The issue there would mostly be the vernacular because they may not be aware of changes besides the language involved. If they hadn’t already been schooled in Latin Mass or earlier content of TLM, they’d just be happy with things as they are - otherwise, they’d already be looking elsewhere. So, with few if any attending a TLM in a NO parish, we’d see Clerics claiming, “See? Nobody wants it.”

We rarely hear about the fact that TLM parishes have risen up - out of parishoners’ own pockets in some cases. That speaks volumes. And that those who prefer TLM are either sentimental about the “old Mass” or rebels. That hurts.

 

[BennyBoy89]

I don’t think each and every parish should be forced to have a TLM.

However, I do believe that our Bishops should encourage a wider availability of it and also encourage the faithful to attend a TLM just once. We as Catholics should be more educated about our faith, and what better way to learn something new than to be worshipping God at the same time?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I don’t know that every parish needs to be forced to offer the Tridentine Mass. I believe that would be just as wrong as the forced use of the N O was. I live in a city of about 50,000 people and 3 parishes of those only one made it through the 70’s without being striped of the High Alters and communion rail. I would Like to see It offered in this parish at least once a month if not at one Mass each Sunday. I only have a short drive of a bout 8 miles to get to a city and Parish that does offer the TLM every Sunday and 2 day during the week so I am lucky in that respect. Thou I do Love the TLM I have only been TO that Church 3 times for it is the 12.30 Mass and I like going to early mass 8 to 9 am. Also I really love my Parish and feel that I should be there for Mass.

 

[DustinsDad]

And there’s the rub. I have never, ever heard anyone in my church or any other Catholic church complain that we should go back to Latin…NEVER, EVER…and the parishes I’ve belonged to are fairly “traditional” by today’s standards.

And you wouldn’t have heard me ask for it either. Until one fateful day…I wandered into an indult out of curiosity.

By the grace of God.

DustinsDad

 

[DustinsDad]

I answered yes - but just sort if “in a perfect world” type scenerio.

As it stands now, it would be impossible outside of a miraculous intervention by God.

Down the road though? Youbetcha.

DD