Who would be happy if every parish had to have a TLM Mass

[Silver_Thread]

I don’t believe we need the Latin Mass in every Parish. I would prefer 4 or 5 different localities in each Dioceses. I prefer a separate Latin Community. Less confusion. And it would certainly prevent any conflict between the NO and TLM attendees.

 

[palmas85]

I don’t think each and every parish should be forced to have a TLM.

However, I do believe that our Bishops should encourage a wider availability of it and also encourage the faithful to attend a TLM just once. We as Catholics should be more educated about our faith, and what better way to learn something new than to be worshipping God at the same time?

Why not? What possible harm could it cause?

 

[Digitonomy]

Why not? What possible harm could it cause?

I suspect some would stop going to mass if the only mass at that parish were changed to Latin.

 

[Silver_Thread]

Why not? What possible harm could it cause?

Palmas, let me give you a taste of reality. Four hundred people petitioned a bishop to have the TLM. They had 5 priest;s who offered to say the Mass. The bishop refused. A young priest started the TLM for some students and a group of adults. The bishop stepped in and the Sunday Mass was stopped. The TLM is being resisted by bishops because the TLM will expose the lie’s of VII and those who put those lie’s into effect. What harm? The harm will be done to them because it will expose the lie?

“There is an evil more murderous than persecution, and that is the deceitful poisoning of the mentality of the people”. St. Cyprian

 

[Brother_John]

Why not? What possible harm could it cause?

Many parishes have multiple Masses that are packed to the gills. Desingnating on for Latin would just shift most of them to other Masses, creating an even bigger problem.

The fact remains, that many of us are very active Catholics, and yet we never hear the clamor for Latin in our parishes.

I suspect that if a poll was taken, that less than one percent of Catholics in the US have any interest in all in Latin Mass.

 

[Silver_Thread]

Many parishes have multiple Masses that are packed to the gills. Desingnating on for Latin would just shift most of them to other Masses, creating an even bigger problem.

The fact remains, that many of us are very active Catholics, and yet we never hear the clamor for Latin in our parishes.

I suspect that if a poll was taken, that less than one percent of Catholics in the US have any interest in all in Latin Mass.

Take a million people out of the slums and send them to the Bahamas. If they had a choice, how many do you think would want to go back home.?

 

[Brother_John]

Take a million people out of the slums and send them to the Bahamas. If they had a choice, how many do you think would want to go back home.?

None that I know of in my parish. So now you’re comparing the NO Mass in the vernacular to a slum, eh?

 

[Cat]

Take a million people out of the slums and send them to the Bahamas. If they had a choice, how many do you think would want to go back home.?

But you see, Silver Thread, I live in a city where the TLM has been offered daily, and several times each weekend, since the mid 1980s! And about 1 percent of the Catholics in our city attend it. That’s all.

I live in a city with a rich heritage of Catholicism. The Catholic church where I play piano is celebrating our centennial next year. Several of the Catholic churches are almost as old. We have a large group of Italians, Poles, Irish, and Hispanic who are mainly Catholic, not to mention the Catholic Germans in the city.

Yet most of these Catholics attend the reverent NO Masses in their own churches. The drive to the TLM is no more than a few miles for any of the people in our city, but people still choose to go to the “slums” as you call them to hear Mass in their own language.

Most of the young people stay in their own churches with their families and attend the NO Masses. There doesn’t seem to be a craving among the young people for the TLM, either, although many people on this board report that the young people in their part of the country are clamoring for TLM.

So in answer to your question, most Catholics are very content in the so-called “slums,” even when the Bahamas are right next door and easily accessible. Do you think it’s possible that these NO Masses are not the “slums” after all, and that the TLM is not “the Bahamas” after all?

 

[Silver_Thread]

No, not all of the priests know Latin. Very few of the parishoners would know it, either. There is not a big demand for it in our area.

No demand? Since the Motu Proprio, how many times was it mentioned in your church? If someone asked for the TLM, who would know besides the priest. Where would you get the numbers. Where is the discussion of any letters or documents from the Pope. My experience is nada! 400 people petition the bishop, he says no! Who else knew about it? How many diocesan newspapers announced the Motu Proprio? Mine didn’t. I got news for you…few people in the pews knew Latin prior to the NO. The problem was the Bishops and priest didn’t do the catechesis and didn’t place a simple booklet in their hands with the translations. They simple did not carry out their roles as shepherds. Certainly they ministered to the people. But, the binding force the keeps it all together, The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was left for naught.

 

[Silver_Thread]

And there’s the rub. I have never, ever heard anyone in my church or any other Catholic church complain that we should go back to Latin…NEVER, EVER…and the parishes I’ve belonged to are fairly “traditional” by today’s standards.

CAF is the only place I’ve ever encountered people demanding, or rueing the lack of, Mass in Latin.

And who would they demand it of …YOU? The numbers are hidden… When the Motu Proprio, was released, did your priest read it in church?

 

[Silver_Thread]

None that I know of in my parish. So now you’re comparing the NO Mass in the vernacular to a slum, eh?

No, I’m simply comparing the differences in the abstract.

 

[ProVobis]

" So now you’re comparing the NO Mass in the vernacular to a slum, eh? "

This kind of comment does not exactly show faith in the Pope’s desire to unify the liturgies. “NO Mass in the vernacular” is not only a language issue but also is associated with communion in the hand, altar girls, dancing, clowns, guitar music, a gather-around atmosphere, and anything else that is designed to irritate the Traditionalist. Yes I know that there are some very reverent OF Masses but how exactly do you see unification when you want to keep all these modernist novelties in the liturgy? As much as I’d like to see the EF in all parishes, I don’t see where many of the parishes are ready for it just yet. We’ll have to give them time, that’s all. And we can use more cooperation from both sides. This “no demand” stuff can be easily rectified by the Pope. Are we sure we want to test him in this respect?

 

[StevenFrancis]

If you’re going to use the words “HAVE TO”, at the Parish level, then I guess I’d say no. The Pope wants it available by request, if there is enough support for it in the parish. Please don’t get me wrong. I’d love to have it in our Parish, but I’ve talked to a LOT of my brothers and sisters, and they’re not interested. There is one Parish in the Diocese where I can go, (though I haven’t yet). I seem to be the in an almost singular minority for my parish.

If you’re going to have a mandate, then it should probably be at the Diocese level. Certainly the Cathedral should offer TLM at least once weekly. If that starts gaining a large following that it should be expanded by a voluntary offering by parishes who would most likely have good turnout’s. It’s supposed to be quite beautiful. I’m guessing if it was offered periodically at the Cathedral, that there would be a natural attraction, and parishoners at some of the farther parishes would finally start asking their local pastors if they could do their own, so they don’t have to travel so far.

Natural attractions wins out over compulsory edict every time. Nobody TOLD the people to gather around Jesus for the Sermon on the Mount. People thirsted for it.

Isn’t this really what Pope Benedict was saying in his writing? Make it available as the people ask.

If you mandate it, do it at the Diocese for a start.

Anyway…May the Lord bless us all with the opportunity to experience liturgy in all if it’s many beautiful forms.

When time allows, I want to go experience some of the Eastern Catholic rites, TLM, etc. I’d also love to experience a mass in Kenya or elsewhere in Africa where worship happily goes on for 3 or 4 hours!!

We’re lucky if we can keep some of our guys until dismissal. Sad, but true.

Peace to all,

Steven

 

[John_Higgins]

Not me. Certain Sundays we have nine Masses. Ours is not really a territorial parish, so that means people pass up many parishes to get to ours. My wife and I probably pass by 40 parishes or so on our drive to Mass. We come to our parish because we love it and the liturgy–THE WAY IT IS.

I don’t know (or care–so leave it alone) why Paul VI promulgated the “New Mass”, but he did, and I’m glad he did. In Chicagoland there are many places to go for the TLM, one about a mile or so from my parish. Ask me, I’ll give you directions, but leave my parish alone!

John

 

[CradleCath]

I’

About 10% mourn the loss of the Traditional Latin Mass immensely. They get teary eyed when they talk about it. They spontaneously break into snippets of the Latin they recall off the top of their heads.

And they look over their shoulders. They are paranoid. They have been conditioned by subtle persecution to NEVER discuss this subject. they’ve been conditioned to never bring it up with their priests, and definitely never with a bishop or cardinal. If the subject was ever broached, they were bullied and mocked into silence for 40 years now.
But guess what?

The supply of old Latin-English missal donations have dried up. Those who thought to dig them up, now say, “I’m going to keep it. I can’t give it away. I know there’s a chance now that some day I’ll get to use it again.”

The people were browbeaten into silence on this issue, but now that there is a glimmer of hope, they are asking, yearning, and learning to speak up again. Yes, the Cardinals, bishops and priests can “honestly” claim there is no demand. They succeeded in forcing the desire for it to be silenced for a long time.

But now the Pope himself told them its OK. Glares and mockery from local priests and hierarchs will no longer succeed in suppressing this yearning and longing for sacred, holy, Latin liturgies.

It will take a little while, but this is a tidal wave that will build and never be turned back.

WOW!! You are one hundred percent correct, here. I have tried for the past 40 years to accept & even champion the Novus Ordo Mass & it’s theology which asked us (in the Spirit of Vatican II)…to view the Mass as a communal meal, to accept the blending of the laity & the clergy which, in my area, means 8 EEM’s to serve 300 communicants. I have watched as adults with small children attended Mass in jeans, cuttoff shorts, etc., held my tongue & tried to echo the sentiment of the “new church” with the words, “At least they’re here”.

And yes, we older Catholics (I’m 66 yrs. old) have been made to feel ashamed of our innermost thoughts, emotions & practices. It was inferred by priests (& sometimes even spoken aloud by the laity) that saying the rosary is silly & SO old-fashioned, devotion to the saints is heretical, confession in an actual confessional…a sign that one is a coward who cannot lay his/her sins out there for all to see.

I’ve sat through “Liturgical dance Masses”. I’ve received “communal absolution”. I’ve watched EEM’s bouncing in & out of pews during Mass & I’ve seen them juxtaposition themseves so that their’s would be the prime spot on the altar. I’ve watched thrice married Catholics receive the Eucharist every Sunday with their latest husbands & I’ve seen the female invasion of the sanctuary. I’ve listened to the news which broadcast the fact that John Kerry, as pro-abortion as he is, received the Eucharist last Sunday.

It wasn’t until the sexual abuse crisis, that I began delving into the actual documents of VaT. II & found that many Catholics feel as I do & have been suffering as I have over the abuses within the Mass & the things they’ve been trying to accept over the past 40 yrs. (BTW., at our Latin Mass…more than half who participate are under 40 with small children>)

Bless you Doctor for serving the people like myself who have been torn between the love of their Church & the “theology” of Roger Mahoney for so long. BTW., denying your own innermost turth for so long has consequences. I got to the point where I suffered anxiety attacks during Mass & had to take medication with me. I’m ashamed of the fact, still there it is. Perhaps, if I’d had a Catholic doctor, like yourself, I could have spoken my thoughts aloud & that wouldn’t have happened.

Thank be to God & Pope Benedict, I can now attend the TLM., kneel to receive Our Lord & experience a peace & transcendence within the Liturgy that lifts me above the mundane & the nitty-gritty of everyday life. I can say the rosary before Mass with the congregation & participate in the Sacrament of Reconciliation in an actual confessional…among MANY other things.

 

[elt1956]

I suspect some would stop going to mass if the only mass at that parish were changed to Latin.

Okay, everyone is probably getting reeeeeeeel tired of hearing my story, but listen once again.

I was raised with ONLY the Latin Mass. It was lovely. We had Missles which had the Latin written on one side and English on the other so one could follow along with what was being done at the altar. (Side here: I do think the priests/nuns should have explained the Mass to us kiddos a bit better. But in those days it was allllllll MYSTERY!!!) Anyway, would I like to attend a Latin Mass because it was so much a part of my life? Yes!! Once in a awhile. Was I able to adjust to the New Mass after Vatican II? Of course. In spite of all our rules in the Catholic Church, some flexibility needs to be a part of our Spiritual lives. The Mass is the Mass.

I think if people cut themselves off from Mass just because it is in Latin, or English, or Spanish, or German, or French, they would be doing themselves a huge disfavor. Both the New Mass and the Latin Mass are our connection to God. Why do we as humans choose to blind ourselves to God’s love and community? This divisiveness is so silly. Just one more thing to fight about when the issue could be resolved so easily. I think it’s called an open mind.

 

[repo_man]

at the very least they should have one TLM a month. and special holy days like christmas, triduum, etc.

 

[CradleCath]

Nah, I think most traditional Catholics would like my church just fine…as long as they didn’t go to the 9:30 am guitar Mass. Everything else is pretty much the way it was in the late 60’s.

What in the world is a “TLM. parish”. I live just outside a city with a population of 6 million people…St. Louis, Mo. It’s history & traditions have been tied to Catholicism since it was declared a city. Our founding fathers were French Catholics & St. Louis was the home of St. Phillipine Duschene. Still, as far as I know, we have no TLM. Church or parish. We have parishes that, since the Motu Proprio, are celebrating this Mass **along with **the Novus Ordo…but none who are specifically & totally TLM. I don’t think that this is what the Pope wamts. I think he wants BOTH Masses to be celebrated in all parishes, with the Novus Ordo being the ordinary rite & the Latin Mass the extraordinary Mass & I think that will happen, but it will take time.

 

[Digitonomy]

I think if people cut themselves off from Mass just because it is in Latin, or English, or Spanish, or German, or French, they would be doing themselves a huge disfavor.

Yes. Nonetheless it would be a likely consequence of requiring every parish to have a TLM, and thus answers palmas85’s question of what possible harm that could cause.

 

[CradleCath]

Yes. Nonetheless it would be a likely consequence of requiring every parish to have a TLM, and thus answers palmas85’s question of what possible harm that could cause.

Cutting themselves off from Mass would be a likely consequence of requiring every parish to have ONE TLM every Sunday?? I don’t think so. Just remember there are those of us who, while not particularly crazy about the Novus Ordo…still attended it for 40 years. We did not leave the Church because that was all we were offered, so it stands to reason that N.O. Catholics wouldn’t leave either…especially since they do not **have **to attend the TLM in order to receive the Eucharist or the graces inherent in the Mass or to fulfill their Sunday obligation.