Who would be happy if every parish had to have a TLM Mass

[TraderTif]

I would have said yes, but an awful lot of parishes in my area only have one mass per week! The priests here are busy enough as it is.

But I would really like to see some TLMs at the larger parishes in the bigger towns. If people can drive 30 minutes for groceries, we can drive 30 minutes for an extraordinary mass!

 

[Digitonomy]

"CradleCath:

it stands to reason that N.O. Catholics wouldn’t leave either…especially since they do not **have **to attend the TLM in order to receive the Eucharist or the graces inherent in the Mass or to fulfill their Sunday obligation.

If you read the sequences of posts back to post #43 you’ll see that I am referring specifically to parishes that are only able to offer a single mass.

Just remember there are those of us who, while not particularly crazy about the Novus Ordo…still attended it for 40 years.

And there were those who did not. I am confident there would be many faithful who would continue to attend if their only available mass were suddenly in Latin. My point was that there would be some who would not, which was the harm palmas85 could not imagine.

 

[jypn1943]

The late 60’s?

But, isn’t that when we got our English language paraphrase of the what the prayers of the Mass actually say. And isn’t that when in one week every parish switched from Gregorian chant to drums and guitars and hymns set to the tune of the Brady Bunch theme song? (the 1st Sunday of Advent, 1969)

Now, the early 60’s! That would be the way to go.

James

 

[CradleCath]

If you read the sequences of posts back to post #43 you’ll see that I am referring specifically to parishes that are only able to offer a single mass.And there were those who did not. I am confident there would be many faithful who would continue to attend if their only available mass were suddenly in Latin. My point was that there would be some who would not, which was the harm palmas85 could not imagine.

I did read back to post #43, which said:

I suspect some would stop going to mass if the only mass at that parish were changed to Latin.

I am understanding that you are referring to parishes that only offer ONE Sunday Mass & I have never been a member of such a parish. Are you perhaps speaking of rural Churches & priests who travel from one to another on Sunday?? If so, though I’d prefer to attend a TLM., I’d have to say that this is NOT what the Holy Father was referring to. The Novus Ordo is still the ordinary form & when only one Sunday Mass is offered, it should be that one.

IMO., the big problem here is that the N.O. Mass & it’s theology (communal supper, the blending of the laity & the clergy, etc) .is obviously not drawing men to the priesthood. I fear that the young men attending these Masses will not consider the priesthood as a vocation & that just exacerbates the one Mass a week problem. It seems to be a vicious circle.

 

[John_Higgins]

Just as an aside, I suspect the poll would have had different results if it were in a different part of the board.

John

 

[mgrfin]

What in the world is a “TLM. parish”. I live just outside a city with a population of 6 million people…St. Louis, Mo. It’s history & traditions have been tied to Catholicism since it was declared a city. Our founding fathers were French Catholics & St. Louis was the home of St. Phillipine Duschene. Still, as far as I know, we have no TLM. Church or parish. We have parishes that, since the Motu Proprio, are celebrating this Mass **along with **the Novus Ordo…but none who are specifically & totally TLM. I don’t think that this is what the Pope wamts. I think he wants BOTH Masses to be celebrated in all parishes, with the Novus Ordo being the ordinary rite & the Latin Mass the extraordinary Mass & I think that will happen, but it will take time.

I don’t know what is up with St. Louis Archdiocese. It ranks 100th in actual catholic population, and has about 400,000 catholics. Rate that against Los Angeles with about 5 million, or my "hometown’ of Brooklyn with 1.5 million.

peace

 

[SFD]

Yes. Nonetheless it would be a likely consequence of requiring every parish to have a TLM, and thus answers palmas85’s question of what possible harm that could cause.

Digitonomy,

That’s a good observation. Now apply that same correct principle to the issuance of the Novus Ordo Missae and all the changes in the Sacraments.

Even the smallest of changes works some evil. See St. Thomas on this.

That’s why any change is weighed quite heavily in this area…it is very difficult if not impossible to jusitify the Paul VI liturgical and disciplinary changes here…that the evil they might work might be not be enormous. He complained about the “auto-demolition” of the Church…major and drastic changes are one way to achieve this end.

SFD

 

[Digitonomy]

I am understanding that you are referring to parishes that only offer ONE Sunday Mass & I have never been a member of such a parish. Are you perhaps speaking of rural Churches & priests who travel from one to another on Sunday??

I am aware of such parishes in both rural and urban settings, although my statement is obviously more relevant in a rural area.

CradleCath:

If so, though I’d prefer to attend a TLM., I’d have to say that this is NOT what the Holy Father was referring to.

I agree such parishes were not where the Holy Father was envisioning change - however these would seem to be part of the “every parish” referred to by the OP.

 

[DustinsDad]

What in the world is a “TLM. parish”. I live just outside a city with a population of 6 million people…St. Louis, Mo…Still, as far as I know, we have no TLM. Church or parish. We have parishes that, since the Motu Proprio, are celebrating this Mass **along with **the Novus Ordo…but none who are specifically & totally TLM.

St. Francis de Sales Oratory in St. Louis is I guess what you would call a “TLM parish” - although as an oratory, there are no geographic boundries. Visit sometime, you won’t be disappointed!

Also, ArchBishp Burke has established another oratory offering the Extraordinary Form I believe exclusively) to serve the west side of the city. (see this report for details). Last I heard they are now offering two masses on Sundays because of the overflowing crowds.

I don’t think that this is what the Pope wamts. I think he wants BOTH Masses to be celebrated in all parishes, with the Novus Ordo being the ordinary rite & the Latin Mass the extraordinary Mass & I think that will happen, but it will take time.

I’m not sure what he’s thinking for the long term, but the motu proprio seemed to be dealing primarly with allowing NO parishes to offer the EF without needing permission from the bishop.

I personally prefer the entirely “traditional” parish. Every diocese should have one or two, or three or four, or five or six…etc. .

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[Brother_John]

Just as an aside, I suspect the poll would have had different results if it were in a different part of the board.

John

ya think ?

 

[Adonis33]

Instead of forcing each parish to offer the TLM, why not have a TLM parish in each diocese?

 

[Brother_John]

Instead of forcing each parish to offer the TLM, why not have a TLM parish in each diocese?

Thus sayeth the Lord, “Ye shall worship in Latin or the gates of Heaven shall be closed against you”

 

[John_Higgins]

John,

You crack me up!

John

PS: But, the Lord would have said that in Aramaic. Latin was the language of the oppressors, just like English in Ireland (It is March, after all).

 

[scott1228]

I would be just as happy with the NO in Latin being offered once a week, with a traditional Catholic hymns.

I like to listen to what is called Christian music on the radio, but it just seems too “folksy” for Church.

Scott

 

[CradleCath]

St. Francis de Sales Oratory in St. Louis is I guess what you would call a “TLM parish” - although as an oratory, there are no geographic boundries. Visit sometime, you won’t be disappointed!

Also, ArchBishp Burke has established another oratory offering the Extraordinary Form I believe exclusively) to serve the west side of the city. (see this report for details). Last I heard they are now offering two masses on Sundays because of the overflowing crowds.

I’m not sure what he’s thinking for the long term, but the motu proprio seemed to be dealing primarly with allowing NO parishes to offer the EF without needing permission from the bishop.

I personally prefer the entirely “traditional” parish. Every diocese should have one or two, or three or four, or five or six…etc. .

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

OK., gotcha. You are speaking of what locals call the Cathedral of So. St. Louis. It’s not a “parish” anymore, as they closed both their elementary & high school years ago…but the home of the Sovereign Priests of Christ the King who say only the Latin Mass. It’s where I attended before our own parish started holding a TLM. every Sunday. It’s a round trip of 120 mis., so we only attended about once a month. It was the word “parish” that threw me. I think school, rectory, convent for the nuns when I think “parish”.

 

[bkovacs]

Instead of forcing each parish to offer the TLM, why not have a TLM parish in each diocese?

What only one parish?. In dioceses like NewYork, Philadelphia, etc…
Only one?. I think a dozen or so at a minimum. Especially considering that there would be a considerable larger amount of NO parishes. Only one is not sufficient.

thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/

 

[Sure]

I think every parish should offer at least one EF Mass per week. Also, EF-only parishes should offer at least one OF Mass per week.

Pope Benedict wants BOTH forms used. Neither form should be excluded. There should be no EF-only parishes and no OF-only parishes.

And for priests who say they don’t know or like one form or the other…get over it. It’s not about you and your preferences. You’re a roman rite priest learn to say the forms of the roman rite.

 

[Brother_John]

I think a dozen or so at a minimum. Especially considering that there would be a considerable larger amount of NO parishes. Only one is not sufficient.

“Sufficient” for who? the one tenth of one percent of US Catholics who want Latin Mass?

 

[CradleCath]

I don’t know what is up with St. Louis Archdiocese. It ranks 100th in actual catholic population, and has about 400,000 catholics. Rate that against Los Angeles with about 5 million, or my "hometown’ of Brooklyn with 1.5 million.

peace

Actually, that figure is closer to 600,000 Catholics & it’s not always numbers that count. From “the history of St. Louis”. :

St. Louis, the “Rome of the West,” has long been known as a focal point of genuine Catholic life in this country. Steadfast faithfulness to Holy Mother Church and the Roman Pontiff, filial devotion toward Our Lady, and a deep Eucharistic piety are the characteristics of this city.

Visit our city & see the Basilica. It’s bysantine architecture is lovely & the mosaics (done by the Mr.Tiffany who created the Jewelry empire) are unbelievable.
travel.webshots.com/photo/1422470104048629110SmqSpd

 

[Dbdurand]

You all realize, of course, that the Mass was originally in Latin because it was the language of the people - vulgar. And after the dark ages when only royalty and clergy were literate it was retained and gradually the priest became separated from the people in the celebration of the Eucharist.

And gradually more and more pomp and circumstance was attached to the celebration.

I think of the Tridentine Mass in terms of - and I don’t mean to be blasphemous - like going to an Elizabethan Fair. Those were the good old days. We don’t have that anymore and we forget the bad parts.

I sang in choirs for years because it was the only way I could be a part of that Tridentine Mass. (My brothers were altar servers.) And even then, except for funerals, I believe the congregation thought of it as a performance, not an integral part of “their” Mass, which they went to church to “hear.” Instead of being a part of the Community of the Body of Christ after Communion I was taught to bow my head, put my hands over my head and have my own little “tent” - just me and Jesus. I like the new theology better.

The theology of the Tridentine Mass and the Novus Ordo are different - we are a part of the Mass. If a priest cannot be a servant to his congregation, superior only in having sacramental faculties, perhaps he should not be a priest. Isn’t that why Jesus washed the feet of the Apostles?

Barbara