Whore of Babylon

  • Thread starter Thread starter mark_a
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
Maccabees:
OTT says that nothing stands in the way of dogmatic defintion concerning Mary as Mediatrix. This is not simply another doctrine it is a future dogma that is waiting to have papal defintion or else it would be in the cathechism we don’t simply list all out optional beliefs in the cathechism only thos doctrines which the church feels are essential are listed therin. You won’t find limbo in the cathechism for example. Its a matter of time the church is clearly preparing the faithful for the defintion by its inclusion in the cathechims and we should prepare our fellow catholics for this soon to be defined dogma. Instead of explaining it away as something that you don’t have to believe in. Remember when Ott published his book it was before the doctrine was included in the cathechism. Much has been affirmed since 1954 Ott’s ranking of this belief would no doubt have been upgraded over his pre-vatican 2 and pre-cathechism inclusion of this belief. I just don’t want new catholics to be shocked that they walke up one morning and find they have a papal dogma which they have been resisting and once thought optional. Because it will happen as this movement has as much momentum as the dogma of the Assumption if not more.
Click to expand...
Stop hijacking this thread. If you want to discuss this point then go start a new thread where it can be discussed. It is off topic and has nothing to do with the whore of Babylon.
 
40.png
Benadam:
When Christ made her our mother he shared that bond with it’s divine dignity through Mary to the rest of man. That parental bond is the metapysical conduit of Grace to mankind. This also explains how bonds between persons are the structural supports of heaven and why Mary is called Queen of Heaven.
Click to expand...
Shhh! Queen of Heaven has not been dogmatically defined by the Pope. Don’t confuse anybody we really don’t have to beleive in this Mary stuff. Its optional or something.
 
Church Militant:
Just because some rebel ex-priest says something about the church…(of course he makes his living off this stuff now doesn’t he?) doesn’t mean he’s telling the truth, ALSO this just proves one of my ongoing points about you…you won’t read our stuff…won’t listen to what REAL Catholics tell you, but you’ll take as gospel some clown who left the church and feeds your anti-Catholic rhetoric for pay now.
As I’ve said before…guys like you are not honest seekers and come in here with an agenda to attack the Catholic Church. Don’t you realize that you have been DUPED?
Open your eyes and listen to real Catholics, or at least go after a real cult and quit wasting your time here with us. The devil must be laughing his head off at you and all your friends who could be out winning souls instead of in here hassling us.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi. miserare nobis.
Click to expand...
STOP IT!!!
You know nothing of me or my background.
 
40.png
Benadam:
Maggie, thank you, coming from you, that makes me feel very honored. So much so, I may have to initiate ego deflation exercises.

I have a couple of ways to express the intimate character of Mary’s relationship to Christ and how it’s intimacy inherently applies to her participation in His salvific work that may be of use to you.

The one already explained relates to her participation in the act of creation with the Word’s particiapation with the Father.

Another relates to her participation in the divine bond through her maternal bond with the Word. It’s a bit more lengthy than the first but that may be due to inflated egoitis and I aplogize for that.

This way of conceptualizing Mary’s role is dependent on the understanding of how bonds between persons are the structural supports of Heaven.

It’s the nature of the bond between persons and the tension, if any, with the perception of that bond that make relations function of disfunction. There is a place called heaven because there are persons who’s relationships are lived in accordance with the proper order of the bond between them.

The Creator’s relationship with the Word functions properly within the order inherent in a bond between father and son. Spiritual bonds exclude gender so the order of the parental bond between the Father and Son is no different than the order of the parental bond between Mary and Jesus. The order is the same between fathers of persons and mothers of persons in that it’s order is parental.

There is a difference in dignity between the bonds of divine persons and the bonds between human persons, but in Jesus their dignity is equalized. The wedding at Cana demostrates that. Revealing the dignity of Mary’s maternal bond was at the heart of Jesus’s comment " Woman what has this to do with you and I?" Somehow I can imagine what her face expressed. It surely reminded Him of the proper order of and perhaps questioned the dignity of their bond. In lay terms it said " Cuz I’m your Mother! Does that change because you are divine?" I don’t believe Jesus said this out of his need for the answer or to test His mothers understanding or authority, I think He was acting out of His Love for her by making sure that the dignity of her bond with Him as mother was recognized as one that shared equally in the dignity of His bond with his divine Father. She was making managerial decision here. The management of which was quite exclusive, that of the Father’s plan.

It puts the warmest feeling in my heart of the Love between family members I can imagine when the Divine Father and Son treat Mary this way. That warmth can be felt because and only because she is my mother too.

So that demonstrates how parental bond between persons transcend gender and nature in dignity. Mary is the only human who shares a bond with the Trinity equal in dignity with the bond between the Persons of the Trinity. This is the metaphysical cause of her function as dispenser of all Graces.

When Christ made her our mother he shared that bond with it’s divine dignity through Mary to the rest of man. That parental bond is the metapysical conduit of Grace to mankind. This also explains how bonds between persons are the structural supports of heaven and why Mary is called Queen of Heaven.
Click to expand...
This is just too beautiful for words. You have described the love and warmth that flows between Mary and the Creator. It is so very well written.

Maggie
 
40.png
Maccabees:
Shhh! Queen of Heaven has not been dogmatically defined by the Pope. Don’t confuse anybody we really don’t have to beleive in this Mary stuff. Its optional or something.
Click to expand...
There is no need for the sarcasm. Honestly some of the things that are being said by a Catholic are not very helpful at all. A comment such as that one above is very unhelpful. You are acting as though you are the only one who knows Catholic doctrine or something.

Maggie
 
40.png
SusanG:
Gotta agree with CM. An honest seeker will seek answers without bias to the answer found. The truth is just that, **the truth. **You don’t have to like that it is found in the Catholic Church, I didn’t at first either, but you have to earnestly, prayerfully seek the truth with no blinders on.

Blessings
Click to expand...
yes indeed CM is right and demonstrates the catholic mind in that statement. That kind of thinking about Truth is one reason the Pagan nations were converted. Their construct of reality contained truth and the measure of Truth they possessed was respected. We’re called pagans for it but I think that’s because the idols the converted pagans worshipped are angry now that they’ve been forced into their caves. 😃
 
40.png
Benadam:
yes indeed CM is right and demonstrates the catholic mind in that statement. That kind of thinking about Truth is one reason the Pagan nations were converted. Their construct of reality contained truth and the measure of Truth they possessed was respected. We’re called pagans for it but I think that’s because the idols the converted pagans worshipped are angry now that they’ve been forced into their caves. 😃
Click to expand...
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Maggie
 
40.png
Benadam:
Catholic2 you cracked me upwith that. you wouldn’t what?.. you love it…you know you do…😃
Click to expand...
Is it possible that consequences of constant non-sequitored blathering become over millenia the quintessential dissertation on revelation? I need time! I need time! I need time!
 
40.png
catholic2:
Is it possible that consequences of constant non-sequitored blathering become over millenia the quintessential dissertation on revelation? I need time! I need time! I need time!
Click to expand...
Whoa!! I hope it is relative to those prone to do that… I think I can I think I can I think I can.
 
40.png
Benadam:
Maggie, thank you, coming from you, that makes me feel very honored. So much so, I may have to initiate ego deflation exercises.

I have a couple of ways to express the intimate character of Mary’s relationship to Christ and how it’s intimacy inherently applies to her participation in His salvific work that may be of use to you.

The one already explained relates to her participation in the act of creation with the Word’s particiapation with the Father.

Another relates to her participation in the divine bond through her maternal bond with the Word. It’s a bit more lengthy than the first but that may be due to inflated egoitis and I aplogize for that.

This way of conceptualizing Mary’s role is dependent on the understanding of how bonds between persons are the structural supports of Heaven.

It’s the nature of the bond between persons and the tension, if any, with the perception of that bond that make relations function of disfunction. There is a place called heaven because there are persons who’s relationships are lived in accordance with the proper order of the bond between them.

The Creator’s relationship with the Word functions properly within the order inherent in a bond between father and son. Spiritual bonds exclude gender so the order of the parental bond between the Father and Son is no different than the order of the parental bond between Mary and Jesus. The order is the same between fathers of persons and mothers of persons in that it’s order is parental.

There is a difference in dignity between the bonds of divine persons and the bonds between human persons, but in Jesus their dignity is equalized. The wedding at Cana demostrates that. Revealing the dignity of Mary’s maternal bond was at the heart of Jesus’s comment " Woman what has this to do with you and I?" Somehow I can imagine what her face expressed. It surely reminded Him of the proper order of and perhaps questioned the dignity of their bond. In lay terms it said " Cuz I’m your Mother! Does that change because you are divine?" I don’t believe Jesus said this out of his need for the answer or to test His mothers understanding or authority, I think He was acting out of His Love for her by making sure that the dignity of her bond with Him as mother was recognized as one that shared equally in the dignity of His bond with his divine Father. She was making managerial decision here. The management of which was quite exclusive, that of the Father’s plan.

It puts the warmest feeling in my heart of the Love between family members I can imagine when the Divine Father and Son treat Mary this way. That warmth can be felt because and only because she is my mother too.

So that demonstrates how parental bond between persons transcend gender and nature in dignity. Mary is the only human who shares a bond with the Trinity equal in dignity with the bond between the Persons of the Trinity. This is the metaphysical cause of her function as dispenser of all Graces.

When Christ made her our mother he shared that bond with it’s divine dignity through Mary to the rest of man. That parental bond is the metapysical conduit of Grace to mankind. This also explains how bonds between persons are the structural supports of heaven and why Mary is called Queen of Heaven.
Click to expand...
Benadam,

This is absolutely beautiful. Your teaching skills are excellent. This helps so much. Sometimes I have to take the long way around before I truly understand. Your explanations are wonderful, and it really means a lot to me for someone to go out of their way with a peaceful mindset to help someone learn that is desperately seeking truth and knowledge. That is all I have ever asked for is a person with true compassion and understanding when trying to get answers. Compassion is one of the greatest virtues we could be guilty of having.

God Bless,

God bless,
 
40.png
MaggieOH:
There is no need for the sarcasm. Honestly some of the things that are being said by a Catholic are not very helpful at all. A comment such as that one above is very unhelpful. You are acting as though you are the only one who knows Catholic doctrine or something.

Maggie
Click to expand...
I don’t know anything on my own that is why I quote other sources.
Unlike some neophyte catholics who claim to know more than the church and the Pope with no evidence other than their own flavored protestant opinion.
 
40.png
Maccabees:
I don’t know anything on my own that is why I quote other sources.
Unlike some neophyte catholics who claim to know more than the church and the Pope with no evidence other than their own flavored protestant opinion.
Click to expand...
What have you got against newly converted Catholics? My late MIL was one of them.

Maggie
 
40.png
MaggieOH:
What have you got against newly converted Catholics? My late MIL was one of them.

Maggie
Click to expand...
Nothing except those who remain protestants at heart.
 
40.png
Maccabees:
I don’t know anything on my own that is why I quote other sources.
Unlike some neophyte catholics who claim to know more than the church and the Pope with no evidence other than their own flavored protestant opinion.
Click to expand...
What have you got against newly converted Catholics? My late MIL was one of them.

Maggie
 
40.png
Maccabees:
Nothing except those who remain protestants at heart.
Click to expand...
That is a judgmental statement. Not everyone understands every single doctrine when they make the decision to convert.

Now you are continuing to take this subject off topic. If you want to discuss this issue then please open your own thread.

Maggie
 
40.png
Benadam:
Whoa!! I hope it is relative to those prone to do that… I think I can I think I can I think I can.
Click to expand...
Son of Adam:
Not to worry, 'tis but I self-deprecatingly speaking.
Whoops! up a notch in my posting count.
 
I have only read through half of the posts, forgive me if someone already pointed this out, but ancient Babylon is located in modern-day Iraq. I wouldn’t read to much into this (ohh it must be Iraq! NOT NECESSARILYtake care when interpreting Scripture) I know, beyond any doubt, that the Whore of Babylon is not the Catholic Church. I used to get this alot, being the only Catholic kid in my highschool class of Anti-Catholic Protestants (the *really *anti-Catholic variety) Even the teachers said this garbage. Believe me, there was no “separation of church and state” at my highschool when it came to bashing Catholics.
 
40.png
lefthand36:
Maggie,

The Lutheran church does not believe that we have free will. I begin to strongly disagree with this, because I believe that God has given us the choice of deciding if we are to believe in Him or not. Thank goodness I am a believer.

Thanks,
Click to expand...
How Calvinist is the Lutheran church as a whole? Is Calvinist theology the norm of faith in the Lutheran church or something “played with” or considered?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top