Who's man enough?

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Augustine

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I looked around me during Mass and realized that most couples together were seniors and that most young people by themselves were women. There were not many families together.

During the “RCIA for Catholics” class given by our pastor every Monday evening, men were outnumbered 4 or 5 to 1 (we were only 3).

In some threads of this forum, women are 2/3 to 3/4 of the posters.

I don’t think that Catholicism is for sissies, on the contrary, but what is going on with us men??? Has it ever been like this (I’m not 40 yet)?
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It’s not just Catholicism. I saw an article last year about the lack of men in Protestant churches too. “Why do men avoid going to church, and what can be done about it?”
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I agree with the diagnosis (townhall.com/columnists/douggiles/dg20040417.shtml) in part, but his proposed solutions are a bit vague and geared towards Protestants in some ways.

I’m afraid that the source of men abandoning the Church is in the culture of death, starting in time with contraception. Then, men and women became mere objects to each other, thus family floundered. If the family flounders, so does the Church. It’s probably quite evident in the priests shortage.

Paul VI was prophetically right and the whole Church, lay and clergy, should counter the culture of death by promoting and defending family, starting at home and at the pulpit and getting to the streets and public forums.

Let us men take custody of our eyes, let women set the limits high. Let us all praise God unashamedly and let Him permeate all instances of our lives: at home, at school, at the club, at work.

The culture at large is not to be blamed, for it resides in each one of us, not anywhere else.

God bless y’all.
 
Beats me. I was thinking the same thing and thinking about the passage in The Bible where the man is the spiritual head of the household. Somehow I doubt that is the case when women are the ones who are consistently in church with the children etc.
 
It is very seldom that one will see a pew with more men than women in it. Most pews have more women, a few are equal numbers.

Lectors, EMHCs, altar servers - all are predominantly female.

I have noticed over the last few weeks, it was probably true before, that when the children leave for the Liturgy of the Word, girls outnumber boys 2 or 3 to 1.

Could this be a result of the Church’s effort to increase the role of women in the Church?
 
Interesting…I hadn’t noticed. The parish I just left was 50/50 at all ages.
 
Joe Kelley:
Could this be a result of the Church’s effort to increase the role of women in the Church?
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I don’t think so. Rather, I believe it’s more the contrary, men’s efforts to decrease their role in Church.

Ever wondered why more men are for abortion than women?

:blessyou:
 
How about this…

Since divorce, sleeping around, living with a partner have become the excepted norm the family structure,which can be any combination of people, has fallen apart.

Since acceptence of the pill and abortion, men no longer feel that they have to be men. They can have what they want when they want.

Now with the acceptence of these very things that destroy the family why wouldn’t the family structure of the Church slowly fall apart?

The above stated sins are grave for a reason. They don’t just affect the person but the community.

We are in a me, me and now, now society. These accepted sins make it easier to live that way.

Peace,
Jen
 
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Jenlyn:
How about this…
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Pretty much Paul VI’s words in his Humanae Vitae. Prophetic words perhaps, but I think that secularists knew quite well what they were doing, attacking the pilars of society, then as today with gay “marriage”.

It wasn’t about freedom with the pill, or about choice with abortion, or about equality with gay marriage. No, it’s about them creating a Nietzchean society of Super-Men. Men who are above history and any value system, primarily any absolute truth or good, with the expectaion of dominance over the “last-men”, or the formers’ antitheses. Thus creating a world to the Super-Men’s image and likeness, i.e., “to be like gods.” But we’ve heard this before…

Brave new world this one of ours…

:blessyou:
 
Nothing has Changed. The women were with him when he was crusified.

(Mk. 40,41) There were also women looking on from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of the younger James and of Joses, and Salome.
These women had followed him when he was in Galilee and ministered to him. There were also many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem.
 
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Lilyofthevalley:
Beats me. I was thinking the same thing and thinking about the passage in The Bible where the man is the spiritual head of the household. Somehow I doubt that is the case when women are the ones who are consistently in church with the children etc.
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Jesus taught us that the first shall be last and the last shall be first. The leader is the servent.

I take the “head of houshold” responsibility to mean that my chrildren’s needs come first, my wife’s needs come second and if there is any money or time left over then my needs come last.
 
Who’s man enough? I am! Or at least I’d like to think so. Last week I starting attending the weekday Masses held at my university, and I have noticed the odd female/male ratio, especially among us younger guys. I really don’t understand why any real man wouldn’t want to be seen worshipping Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. Perhaps it is because of the over-feminization of the liturgy; sometimes I too find myself rolling my eyes at how ridiculous this has become. Guys in my generation don’t see that there are some very manly things that they can do for the Church. I think a good place to start would be for religious instructors to emphasize the masculinity of certain elements of the Church. What could be more manly than accepting the love and grace given to us in the Eucharist, then spreading that love around to help others?

On the bright side, you tend to get noticed by the women when you’re the only guy in church! http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
 
Here is a magazine that is trying to help reverse this trend in the Church. It is called Catholic Men’s Quarterly:

houseonthemoor.com/

**“To live without faith, without a patrimony to defend, without a steady struggle for truth, that is not living, but existing.”

—Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati**
 
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Maranatha:
Nothing has Changed. The women were with him when he was crusified.

(Mk. 40,41) There were also women looking on from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of the younger James and of Joses, and Salome.
These women had followed him when he was in Galilee and ministered to him. There were also many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem.
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Don’t forget a lot of men in the end ended up being killed for the cause.

First and foremost make sure you pray to the Holy Spirit. It was the Holy Spirit that came down and gave courage to those who were scared. It also came down to help give guidence and wisdom to the apostles who seemed to be a very rough group of guys.

Next, I’d say make sure that there are mens groups with men only. Catholisim is not easy, much less Christianity as a whole. It is best if children have a good home, because it helps them become adults where the world isn’t so nice. So men of the Church, need a nice safe place, where they can watch others and take a few chances behind the shelter of caring people to gain the true formation to go out to the world and spread the word. I think the scariest thing for a man is to say yes I’m a Christian, but then have your friends turn on you when you cannot answer the questions and your still feel like a hypocrite because of how often you fall short. Christianity always means your going to come up short – with regards to your actions and sin. It’s scary at first to give up that control. So really I must say I give it up to people like Steve Woods and his group, and the more Evangilical groups like James Doobson’s Focus on the Family and Denis Reiney’s Family Life Today, Chip Engram and who ever else is out there.

I remember from some of the old coaching advice, you love your girls and you challenge your boys. Give them something to do, and show them how it’ll help. You can even shape prayer to be something to do. Even though the fruits of it comes pretty much from your surrendering to not really ‘do’ any thing. That is an act one can do, especially by explaing the benifits and showing how to do it.

Yes, I think contraception and abortion has done much to hurt men’s involvement. By making it a women’s rights issue, it has really given an excuse to men to make children not really a man’s duty. It seems as rights center our society has become, often over looked is the duty part of it. But if you have rights you have to duty to go along with it. If you have the right to vote, then you have the duty to make sure your election good officals. If you don’t have the right to decide if your child is going to be born, it kind of takes some of the heat off of you of making sure the child is taken care of later. “Why should I take care of that child, she should have had an abortion? Stupid woman is now making me pay child support, she could have made sure she was taking birth control.” Not that every man will think like that. At the same time, do you think a man who stuggles with that battle of at times thinking like that is going to be the best dad he can be? No No NO, it was not good for Rome, why is it better for us, because we evolved into it?

Men want to sacrifice for something bigger than they are. Spread the gosple. It’s not just the good news for women, its good news for men too. Our hearts are restless till they rest with the one who truely cares. Men are highly insecure. Women have a special attachment to the family, due to their actual carring of a human til birth. Any one who takes on an extra burden, reaps all the more pleasure in the harvest. Men do not have this tie with humanity that women do. There is a certain amount of freedom thus given to men. But it all leads to a quicker downfall if this is not a freedom for something. Oh sure, going out to a party and drinking too much seems fun, until you actually sober up and think about it. On the other hand, if you give over your life as a sacrifice for another, what greater love and purpose is there than that.

So when it comes to men be honest with them. Appeal to their justice, men know whats right and wrong. Be a light, showing others the life they need to be living if they want to have peace and true happiness. When it does come heart to heart, ask them if they are living as they would like too. Pray, pray, pray you can be the example, you can have the words and the other can open his heart up. Also, send your soldiers letters enocouraging them for their sacrifice. Be friends with the ones who are poor or those that dress in the normal style.

When the men try, give them encouragement while pointing out what works and doesn’t, even if they mess everything up. You cannot expect your kids to get everything right, and so as adults grow they won’t get everything right. Well, I’m sure this is long enough, please argue as you choose too. After all we all need to discern what works with men and what doesn’t.
 
This is just a contiuation of what has been happening in Europe for some time. Especially in Italy, it is not a “Man Thing” to go to church. If the men would return, then the teenagers would. In our parish, concerned moms get the excuse, " Well, dad doesn’t go to church!" There seems to be no worry about someday having to stand before God and give an account of our lives. The dads that attend Mass in our church usually have the whole family with them. There are many prayers offered each day by moms and grandmothers, for their families to return to the church. In our world today, these prayers are really needed.

Deacon Tony
 
Deacon Tony560:
This is just a contiuation of what has been happening in Europe for some time. Especially in Italy, it is not a “Man Thing” to go to church. If the men would return, then the teenagers would. In our parish, concerned moms get the excuse, " Well, dad doesn’t go to church!" There seems to be no worry about someday having to stand before God and give an account of our lives. The dads that attend Mass in our church usually have the whole family with them. There are many prayers offered each day by moms and grandmothers, for their families to return to the church. In our world today, these prayers are really needed.

Deacon Tony
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I totally agree. Church isn’t the cool thing to do, especially for guys who want to be looked on as number 1, Mr. Independent, who doesn’t need help from anyone to survive. Whenever we have school liturgy (Loyola High), almost everyone is inattentive, chatting, or playing some stupid game. It is almost impossible to concentrate for those of us who actually want to be there. It’s hard enough to get the guys to be respectful, let alone actually use mass as a time to grow in their faith.

Eamon
 
Most people who attend church appear to be age 50 or older. Of the younger adults, it appears that a majority are men.

I think the Catholic Church attracts more men than women.
 
I am not sure it is so much a matter of gender but of relevance. The Church is seen as out of touch and idealistic by many men. It tends to stress two things that hit close to home with many men…money and sex. That is, the Church is always seen begging for more money, and telling people under what conditions they may have sex.
 
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Augustine:
…I’m afraid that the source of men abandoning the Church is in the culture of death, starting in time with contraception. Then, men and women became mere objects to each other, thus family floundered. If the family flounders, so does the Church. It’s probably quite evident in the priests shortage.

Paul VI was prophetically right and the whole Church, lay and clergy, should counter the culture of death by promoting and defending family, starting at home and at the pulpit and getting to the streets and public forums.

Let us men take custody of our eyes, let women set the limits high. Let us all praise God unashamedly and let Him permeate all instances of our lives: at home, at school, at the club, at work.

The culture at large is not to be blamed, for it resides in each one of us, not anywhere else.

God bless y’all.
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Interesting and insightful post. How difficult it becomes to blame " the culture of death" and “contraceptive mentality” when we finally realize that we make up the culture and we possess the mentality–not some anonymous, evil force.

There has been much debate on these forums about the roles of men and women and who is the ‘head’ or ‘leader’ or ‘authority’ in the home, workplace, spiritually, etc. The challenge for many men today seems to be to resist the easy assurances that modern life brings. Casual sex–both in and outside of wedlock-- is accepted because of the availability of ABC and abortion on demand–divorcing the natural consequences from the act. This has transformed the sacred into the merely recreational.

How much of that would change if MEN exercised their character and leadership to deny themselves this easy vice and in so doing avoided leading the women whom they care for into this demeaning cesspool of wanton sex? What if, instead of aggressively pursuing more physicality in relationships–ie acting like dogs in heat-- men led by example and restrained their hormones and expected their partners to do likewise? What if instead of seeking out the most experienced, gymnastic sex partner, men valued and sought out the traits of self-restraint, good judgment and morality in the women they dated? And what if, after marriage, men encouraged and assisted their wives to avoid marring their intimate relations by introducing hormones, chemicals, surgery, etc? I guarantee women would respond in kind and THAT would be leadership that could bring about revolutionary cultural change. It is the kind of conduct that earns a position of leadership–not by virtue of gender, but by operation of character.
 
Men and women are naturally different. Maybe by nature women tend more to piety than men do. In which case, except at those points in history when there is a strong counterbalancing trend, there would always tend to be more women doing pious things like attending mass.

And sappy music is driving away both sexes, not just men.

Love, it’s exciting and new, come on board, we’re expecting you, on Love Boat! AAAAAAK!
 
4 marks:
I am not sure it is so much a matter of gender but of relevance. The Church is seen as out of touch and idealistic by many men. It tends to stress two things that hit close to home with many men…money and sex. That is, the Church is always seen begging for more money, and telling people under what conditions they may have sex.
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Being a single man who attends church regularly I have to say that this is part of the problem.

The other part as I see it is that guys that go to church are often looked at by modern women as boring and uninteresting. I don’t go to church to get dates, but my beliefs certainly haven’t landed me any dates. Most single women I know would probably prefer if the guys they chase don’t go to church, so they are more exciting and rebelious.

Being a strong in convictions, polite, responsible, hard-working, honest, kind and other postive traits taught at church actually work against a guy sometimes when attracting women. It is seen as boring.

Men want to seem independant and free-wheeling because they know that a lot women are attracted to such traits. Church makes you look like a mommas boy to some women.

To prove my point think about this. Which would a modern women prefer?
  1. A faithful hardworking guy that loves the Lord and goes to church every Sunday even when he would prefer to blow it off for some fun.
or
  1. A hardworking guy that takes off most Sundays to promise the girl fun- like short trips (and hotel night stays with sex) and a morning of relaxation and laying around.
I think that most guys don’t go to church mostly because it gets them nowhere when dating.
 
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