Who's Taking Blame for Christian Violence?

[romano]

By Calvin White

07/26/05 “Toronto Star” - - Now that imams in Britain and Canada are standing up and publicly condemning terrorist acts as anti-Muslim and against the teachings in the Qur’an, I wonder if pressure might be put on Christian leaders to take a similar stand.

For the rest of the article:

informationclearinghouse.info/article9577.htm

 

[Adonis33]

romano:

By Calvin White

07/26/05 “Toronto Star” - - Now that imams in Britain and Canada are standing up and publicly condemning terrorist acts as anti-Muslim and against the teachings in the Qur’an, I wonder if pressure might be put on Christian leaders to take a similar stand.

For the rest of the article:

informationclearinghouse.info/article9577.htm

Christians are not strapping bombs to themselves and killing innocent women and children.

Christians are not kidnapping reporters and contract workers - and beheading them with a rusty butcher knives.

Christian leaders are not calling for the violent overthrow of western countries.

Christians are not flying airplanes into buildings - killing thousands.

Ho-hum - another article calling for an end the this “unjust” war.

 

[Richardols]

Adonis33:

Christians are not strapping bombs to themselves and killing innocent women and children.

Christians are not kidnapping reporters and contract workers - and beheading them with a rusty butcher knives.

Christian leaders are not calling for the violent overthrow of western countries.

Christians are not flying airplanes into buildings - killing thousands.

Sure. Christians do things differently. Such as, e.g., when Christian Serbs took thousands of Moslem boys and men into fields and shot them dead. Christians aren’t as crude as Moslems.

 

[Jabronie]

Richardols:

Sure. Christians do things differently. Such as, e.g., when Christian Serbs took thousands of Moslem boys and men into fields and shot them dead. Christians aren’t as crude as Moslems.

I’m surprised they had time to do that, since all of their time was spent helping John Paul II spread AIDS through Africa. :whacky:

Cause we all know, Christians are responsible for all that is evil in the world.

The left is so predictable…

 

[Jabronie]

Richardols:

Sure. Christians do things differently. Such as, e.g., when Christian Serbs took thousands of Moslem boys and men into fields and shot them dead. Christians aren’t as crude as Moslems.

Some old stuff…

 

[Richardols]

Jabronie:

Some old stuff…

Oh, you haven’t heard what happened in Kosovo.

 

[legeorge]

Well, I for one, haven’t seen or heard any Catholic leadership promoting violence. Usually, I only hear peace and love thy neighbor kind of stuff from the priests. And the Pope is certainly speaking up for peace. It seems to me, our leaders are already doing what they should. Isn’t that good enough for the liberals? Or maybe we should all don our ashes and sackcloth and lay prostate at the feet of America’s media and politicians.

 

[Philip_P]

legeorge:

Well, I for one, haven’t seen or heard any Catholic leadership promoting violence. Usually, I only hear peace and love thy neighbor kind of stuff from the priests. And the Pope is certainly speaking up for peace. It seems to me, our leaders are already doing what they should. Isn’t that good enough for the liberals? Or maybe we should all don our ashes and sackcloth and lay prostate at the feet of America’s media and politicians.

If you’re going to distinguish Catholics out of all the Christians, then you ought to make distinctions in regards to Islam as well. It’s no more fair to use one group of Christians to characterize all Christians than it is to take one group of Muslims to characterize all Muslims. Do Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, or Slobodon Milosevic represent Christianity? Then why accept Bin Lade as representing Islam?

 

[dwc]

I think the problem is that after 9/11 so many in the muslim world openly celebrated. Remember the Pakistanis celebrating in the streets? It wasn’t only Bin Laden followers who openly approved of the mass killing. Following 9/11, I wondered why the mainstream muslims were so quiet and didn’t denounce the violence. Then again, reading about Islam lends support to the idea that ideologically, it’s NOT a religion of peace, but a religion based on forceful overthrow of others. In contrast, Christianity is openly and clearly a religion based on love and peace. There are Christians who violate and pervert the faith but it’s very clear that what they do is in violation of everything Christ stands for and is in no way supported by Christianity’s doctrines or even a substantial number of Christians.

Regarding Christians denouncing violence – the acts of terrorism are justified by the terrorists and other muslims as furthering Islam. The war is not being carried out under the theory of God’s will but for secular reasons. Still, many Christians and Christian leaders DO vocally object to the war, the article just conveniently focused on conservative leaders and ignored others. As far as violence carried out under the pretense of Christianity or God’s will … well, for example, when misguided Christians in the pro-life movement bombed abortion clinics or killed doctors that was openly denounced from the pulpit, in the local Catholic newspaper and by letters to the editor to the local secular newspapers. Believe me, Christians were not reticent to share their disgust about this misrepresentation of their faith.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

The Toronto Star is the same newspaper that gave start-up funds for Judy Rebick’s website rabble.ca. That website published an anti-Catholic cartoon suggesting that Pope Benedict is a Nazi and that the Virgin Mary is Hitler. As well several of the flagrantly libellous and hateful posts on her discussion board went uncorrected.

 

[legeorge]

Philip P:

If you’re going to distinguish Catholics out of all the Christians, then you ought to make distinctions in regards to Islam as well. It’s no more fair to use one group of Christians to characterize all Christians than it is to take one group of Muslims to characterize all Muslims. Do Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, or Slobodon Milosevic represent Christianity? Then why accept Bin Lade as representing Islam?

I don’t. Perhaps you missed my post in the “Pope doesn’t see clash of civilizations” thread.

He said “small groups of fanatics”. Maybe you know of a statistic I am unaware of. But it seems to me that considering the staggering amount of Muslims in the world, the number of them belonging to these jihad, terrorist cells is small in comparison. Heaven knows I don’t want people to think that Catholicism is what a lot of American Catholics think it is. Just like most Muslims don’t want to be associated with suicide bombers.

Perhaps you mistook me for someone else?

 

[MikeWM]

dwc:

I think the problem is that after 9/11 so many in the muslim world openly celebrated. Remember the Pakistanis celebrating in the streets? It wasn’t only Bin Laden followers who openly approved of the mass killing.

These were one or two images of misguided people. You may as well say the pictures from Abu Ghraib represent the typical actions of the American Army.

Mike

 

[legeorge]

There are Christians who violate and pervert the faith but it’s very clear that what they do is in **violation of everything Christ stands for and is in no way supported by Christianity’s doctrines ** or even a substantial number of Christians.

emphasis added.

Precisely!!

 

[Philip_P]

legeorge:

I don’t. Perhaps you missed my post in the “Pope doesn’t see clash of civilizations” thread.

Perhaps you mistook me for someone else?

I did misread the intent of your post. However, I’m still confused…Richardolos pointed out that the Serbs, who are Christian, committed violence, Jabronie attempted to dismiss this (apparently not realizing R was referring to the recent Balkans war), and then you posted your post. In that context of Christian extremism being compared to Muslim extremism, it did look like you were trying to blur the distinction between terrorists and the rest of Islam.

You say that’s not what you mean, however, and I accept that. My apologies.

 

[dwc]

These were one or two images of misguided people.

It was a lot more than one or two images, and there were a very large number of misguided people contained within all the images. This, plus the deafening silence for what … almost 4 years post 9/11, combine to make a reasonable person fear that the terrorists enjoy an element of support among a large number of muslims.

 

[MikeWM]

dwc:

It was a lot more than one or two images, and there were a very large number of misguided people contained within all the images.

I watched a lot of TV on and after 9/11. I remember precisely 2 clips of people looking happy at the events, and I read afterwards that one of those clips was a stock image taken weeks before about something else entirely.

This, plus the deafening silence for what … almost 4 years post 9/11, combine to make a reasonable person fear that the terrorists enjoy an element of support among a large number of muslims.

I am not convinced there has been a deafening silence. I have already posted about 6 different posts here with condemnation from all the UK Muslim groups about the London attacks. I don’t see why they viewed the attacks on the USA any differently.

Of course, the media may not be reporting what Muslims say, or as I’ve said earlier the Muslims in the USA may be less organised (to be honest, I’m not sure).

Catholicism is in a uniquely useful position, in having the Vatican as a figurehead of Catholic opinion. To compare with Islam, imagine trying to get the ‘Protestant position’ on a question. How many different churches would you need to ask to find out the ‘Protestant position’? (Hundreds, at least).

Mike

 

[legeorge]

Philip P:

I did misread the intent of your post. However, I’m still confused…Richardolos pointed out that the Serbs, who are Christian, committed violence, Jabronie attempted to dismiss this (apparently not realizing R was referring to the recent Balkans war), and then you posted your post. In that context of Christian extremism being compared to Muslim extremism, it did look like you were trying to blur the distinction between terrorists and the rest of Islam.

You say that’s not what you mean, however, and I accept that. My apologies.

I was not aware of their posts as I only read the OP and responded to that. I let my post fall where it may! The article insinuated that Christians don’t speak out against violence, but it only used the war in Iraq as an example, and I haven’t heard any of our (Catholic) religious leaders promoting war or any other type of violece for that matter. Since they were lumping all Christians together, I wanted to point out the purely Catholic view. Sorry for the confusion. I hate to be lumped in a stereotypical box like this author tried to do.

 

[Philip_P]

legeorge:

I was not aware of their posts as I only read the OP and responded to that. I let my post fall where it may! The article insinuated that Christians don’t speak out against violence, but it only used the war in Iraq as an example, and I haven’t heard any of our (Catholic) religious leaders promoting war or any other type of violece for that matter. Since they were lumping all Christians together, I wanted to point out the purely Catholic view. Sorry for the confusion. I hate to be lumped in a stereotypical box like this author tried to do.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Adonis33]

Philip P:

If you’re going to distinguish Catholics out of all the Christians, then you ought to make distinctions in regards to Islam as well. It’s no more fair to use one group of Christians to characterize all Christians than it is to take one group of Muslims to characterize all Muslims. Do Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, or Slobodon Milosevic represent Christianity? Then why accept Bin Lade as representing Islam?

Tim McVeigh was not religious - and did not kill in the name of Christianity. Rudolph is so far the only example, but you can hardly compare one nut job with the endless list of examples of Islamic terrorism.

I think what should be noted, that the actions of Milosevic were widely condemmed by religious leaders, we have yet to see a number of major Islamic leaders condem the violence of the terrorist attacks. Often they try to justify it. When is the last time a major Chritian Leader, speaking from the pulpit, called for a world wide war on the west, and for the conversion of the world by use of violence.

 

[Philip_P]

Adonis33:

I think what should be noted, that the actions of Milosevic were widely condemmed by religious leaders, we have yet to see a number of major Islamic leaders condem the violence of the terrorist attacks. Often they try to justify it. When is the last time a major Chritian Leader, speaking from the pulpit, called for a world wide war on the west, and for the conversion of the world by use of violence.

See Post #15, by MikeWm:

It was a lot more than one or two images, and there were a very large number of misguided people contained within all the images.

I watched a lot of TV on and after 9/11. I remember precisely 2 clips of people looking happy at the events, and I read afterwards that one of those clips was a stock image taken weeks before about something else entirely.

This, plus the deafening silence for what … almost 4 years post 9/11, combine to make a reasonable person fear that the terrorists enjoy an element of support among a large number of muslims.

I am not convinced there has been a deafening silence. I have already posted about 6 different posts here with condemnation from all the UK Muslim groups about the London attacks. I don’t see why they viewed the attacks on the USA any differently.

Of course, the media may not be reporting what Muslims say, or as I’ve said earlier the Muslims in the USA may be less organised (to be honest, I’m not sure).

Catholicism is in a uniquely useful position, in having the Vatican as a figurehead of Catholic opinion. To compare with Islam, imagine trying to get the ‘Protestant position’ on a question. How many different churches would you need to ask to find out the ‘Protestant position’? (Hundreds, at least).

Mike