Wht's your opinion

[PJM]

See also:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur

From the website, in part:

"Temple service:

The following summary of the Temple service is based on the traditional Jewish religious account described in Mishnah tractate Yoma, appearing in contemporary traditional Jewish prayerbooks for Yom Kippur, and studied as part of a traditional Jewish Yom Kippur worship service.[13]

While the Temple in Jerusalem was standing (from Biblical times through 70 C.E.), the Kohen Gadol (High Priest) was mandated by the Torah to perform a complex set of special services and sacrifices for Yom Kippur to attain Divine atonement, the word “kippur” meaning “atone” in Hebrew.

These services were considered to be the most important parts of Yom Kippur because through them the Kohen Gadol made atonement for all Jews and the world.

During the service, the Kohen Gadol entered the Holy of Holies in the center of the Temple, the only time of the year that anyone went inside.

Doing so required special purification and preparation, including five immersions in a mikvah (ritual bath), and four changes of clothing.

Seven days prior to Yom Kippur, the Kohen Gadol was sequestered in the Palhedrin chamber in the Temple, where he reviewed (studied) the service with the sages familiar with the Temple, and was sprinkled with spring water containing ashes of the Red Heifer as purification.

The Talmud (Tractate Yoma) also reports that he practiced the incense offering ritual in the Avitnas chamber.

On the day of Yom Kippur, the Kohen Gadol had to follow a precise order of services, sacrifices, and purifications:

Morning (Tamid) Offering The Kohen Gadol first performed the regular daily (Tamid) offering — usually performed by ordinary priests — in special golden garments, after immersing in a mikvah and washing his hands and feet."

Continued at: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur#Temple_service

OK! And Thanks;

But I labor under the impression that The New Covenant voids the Old Covenant; and the OT is completed AND Perfected by Jesus in the NT? Where am I wrong?

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

=Publisher;7515896]I would think that isolating a singular verse from the gospels does not a “doctrine” make…

1 John 2:2, “and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also **for those of the whole world.” **1 John 4:14, “And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son **to be the Savior of the world.” **

As a Friend, I reject the idea of a “limited” anything that separates humanity into those whom God “saves” and those whom God choses to “damn”.

The universal saving Light of Christ is available to ALL MEN.

Friend, I agree with you. But it is also in the folowing passags:

Mark 14: 22-24
Luke 22: 19-21
1 Cor. 11:23-26…

Slightly different verbage is used but with a common Thought.

I don’t see or follow your position of 'God CHOOSING to Damn anyone. Please clarity it for me. Certainly is it Available; BUTis always it accepted?

God Bles, Pat

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

=Vico;7515916]

My opinion: It has a dual meaning (at least). The new covenent which brings salvation for all mankind, through the mystical shedding of blood, which is everlasting life. Christ through death destroys Death and Christ through the Eucharistic Mystery saves mankind.

Others:

Haydock Commentary (1859):

Ver. 28. This is my blood of the New Testament, which shall be shed for many for the remission of sins. The Greek text in St. Luke shews that the words shall be shed, or is shed, cannot, in construction, be referred to the blood of Christ shed on the cross, but to the cup, at the institution of the holy sacrament. *This *cup (says Luke xxii. 20,) *is the New Testament in my blood; which *cup[6] shall be shed, or is shed for you. St. Paul also saith: this cup is the New Testament in my blood. And if any one will needs insist upon the words, as related by St. Matthew and St. Mark, the sense is still the same; viz. that this cup was not wine, but the blood of Christ, by which the New Testament was confirmed, or alliance betwixt God and man.

— For many. St. Luke and St. Paul, instead of many, say for you. Both are joined in the canon of the mass. Euthymius says, for many, is the same as for all mankind. This new alliance was made with all, and the former with the Jews only. (Witham)

— As the Old Testament was dedicated with blood in these words: This is the blood of the Testament, (Hebrews ix. 20,) so here is the institution of the New Testament, in Christ’s blood, by these words: This is the blood of the New Testament, which God contracts with you, to communicate to you his grace and justice, by the merits of this blood, which shall be shed for you on the cross; and which is here mystically shed for many, for the remission of sins: for the Greek is in the present tense in all the three evangelists, and in St. Paul, 1 Corinthians xi, and the Latin Vulgate of St. Luke, xxii. 19. Hoc est corpus meum quod pro vobis datur: didomenon, klomenon ekchunomenon.

haydock1859.tripod.com/

New American Bible (1991), Commentary:

16 [27-28] Gave thanks: see the note on Matthew 15:36.

Gave it to them . . . all of you: cf Mark 14:23-24. In the Marcan sequence the disciples drink and then Jesus says the interpretative words. Matthew has changed this into a command to drink followed by those words.

My blood: see Lev 17:11 for the concept that the blood is “the seat of life” and that when placed on the altar it “makes atonement.”

Which will be shed: the present participle, “being shed” or “going to be shed,” is future in relation to the Last Supper.

On behalf of: Greek peri; see the note on Mark 14:24.

Many: see the note on Matthew 20:28.

For the forgiveness of sins: a Matthean addition. The same phrase occurs in Mark 1:4 in connection with John’s baptism but Matthew avoids it there (Matthew 3:11). He places it here probably because he wishes to emphasize that it is the sacrificial death of Jesus that brings forgiveness of sins.

Matthew 20:28

11 [28] Ransom: this noun, which occurs in the New Testament only here and in the Marcan parallel (Matthew 10:45), does not necessarily express the idea of liberation by payment of some price. The cognate verb is used frequently in the LXX of God’s liberating Israel from Egypt or from Babylonia after the Exile; see Exodus 6:6; 15:13; Psalm 77:16 (76 LXX); Isaiah 43:1; 44:22. The liberation brought by Jesus’ death will be for many; cf Isaiah 53:12.

Many does not mean that some are excluded, but is a Semitism designating the collectivity who benefit from the service of the one, and is equivalent to “all.” While there are few verbal contacts between this saying and the fourth Servant Song (Isaiah 52:13-53:12), the ideas of that passage are reflected here.

Wel done:thumbsup:

BUt how does it reconcile with: 1 John 1:8-10; 1 john 5:16-17; John 20:19-23; 1 Peter 1:17 and Rev. 2:23? And what effect does your position have on the Commandments?

God Bless, Pat

 

[Barbkw]

Christ, being the Paschal Lamb, had to have His Blood shed by man in atonement for man’s sins, just as the Paschal lamb under the Mosaic covenant had its blood shed by man in atonement for sin. And, just as with the Passover Lamb, the flesh had to be eaten.

You make an important note, Jesus’ New Covenant announcement and His forgiveness of sin statement (Yom Kipppur) is also combined with the sacrificial Paschal Lamb celebration commemorating Jewish Passover.

More information concerning the historical celebration by Jews of Passover:

From: myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Jewish_Holidays/Passover/History.shtml

“Passover (Pesach) History”

"Observance of Passover has taken a number of forms through history. This evolution is partly seen in the Torah text itself. It is discussed as a springtime festival, a barley harvest festival, and a time to bring sacrifices to the Temple in Jerusalem.

Different references to Passover in the Torah as well as knowledge of other ancient rituals that took place at the same time of year indicate that there may have been several origins of the Pesach festival.

The ancient Israelites took what was originally one or more separate Canaanite spring holidays and imbued them with a heightened significance when they made Pesach a commemoration of the Exodus from Egypt.

We now view commemoration of the liberation of the Hebrews from Egyptian bondage as identical to the celebration of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

In Leviticus (23:5-6), however, there seems to be a distinction between the two festivals.

The “Lord’s Passover” falls at dusk on the 14th day of the first month, Nisan (referred to in Torah as the month of “Aviv”).

The Festival of Unleavened Bread fell on the 15th day of the same month.

In Exodus 13:4 and Deut. 16:1, the New Moon is given as the memorial day for the Exodus.

Setting aside, slaughtering, and eating a paschal lamb was introduced as a celebration of the festival. The Hebrews were commanded to take a lamb for each household on the 10th of the first month (Nisan). The unblemished male lamb in its first year was kept until the 14th day and then killed at eve.

This ritual was reminiscent of ancient pagan rituals that took place at this time of the year. Nisan was the month when sheep gave birth and sacrifices were made at the full moon on the 15th of the month.

Passover also falls at the time of the beginning of the spring harvest.

Leviticus 23:10-16 discusses the omer [a certain measure] of new barley that was brought to the Temple on the second day of the festival.

At this time of year, the first sheaf of newly cut barley was offered up as a sacrifice. It has been suggested that the elimination of hametz (leaven), which Jews undertake before Passover, may have originated as a precaution against infecting the new crop.

Thus, Hag ha-Matzot (the feast of unleavened bread), which is a name for Passover, may have originally carried this agricultural meaning. Hag ha-Aviv, or Spring Festival, is another name for the festival of Pesach. A number of remnants of the springtime origins of Pesach remain, as in the prayer for dew, and the counting of the Omer that bridges two different spring harvest periods.

The first Pesach observance, mentioned in Numbers 9:5, took place at Sinai.

The first observance in the “holy land” is mentioned in the book of Joshua (5:10-11).

The children of Israel kept the Passover in Gilgal on the 14th of Nisan, and ate unleavened bread the next day.

It is believed that the turmoil of the Judges period that followed Joshua was not conducive to observance of Pesach.

Revival of the holiday probably occurred under Samuel in the 11th century BCE.

With the building of the Temple in Jerusalem, the observance of the festival changed.

The Temple was the focal point for the “shelosh regalim”, the Pilgrim Festivals, and it provided a place for carrying out the Pesach sacrifice. Observance of the festival waxed and waned in subsequent periods.

Historians believe that after the return from Babylonian exile and the beginning of the second Temple period, at the end of the sixth century BCE, the festival was restored to prominence.

The nature of the Pesach observance necessarily had to radically change after the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE, when animal sacrifices ceased.

A that time, Pesach was transformed from a mostly communal, public festival to one centered in the home. A Talmudic tractate devoted to the festival, Pesachim, suggests that home observance of Pesach began prior to the destruction of the Temple.

Chanting of Hallel (psalms of praise), which accompanied the slaughtering of the paschal offering began to be practiced during family feasts when the paschal lamb was eaten in private homes throughout Jerusalem."

Continues at:

myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Jewish_Holidays/Passover/History.shtml

 

[PJM]

=Publisher;7515932]So are you claiming the English translation of “many” doesn’t mean “all”?

Since I am a universalist, we part company on the idea of “Things can be available but never attained.”

“God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself…”

***Humanity ALONE of ALL OF GOD"S CREATED THINGS have a mind, intellect and FREEWILL… WHY?

Precisely so that We, you, and me, and every other human being can freely choose for ourselves where we WILL spend Eternity. AGREE?***

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

=Publisher;7515974]Not “everyone is saved”…but one day God will reconcile His creation to Himself…“God is not willing that any should perhish but ALL should come to repentance.”…I believe in the Soverign will of God…“Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”…

I don’t know how it will be accomplished, but only that the work of God in Christ will one day place all things under His feet.

OK? So why …1 John 1:8-10; 1 john 5:16-17; John 20:19-23; 1 Peter 1:17 and Rev. 2:23? And what effect does your position have on the Commandments?

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

Rev.2: 23 “and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17 "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23 " When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”

1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

Rom.2: 13 “For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.”

 

[Barbkw]

OK! And Thanks; But I labor under the impression that The New Covenant voids the Old Covenant; and the OT is completed AND Perfected by Jesus in the NT? Where am I wrong?God Bless,Pat

I would’t say voids, but that Jesus fulfills and extends the Covenant in the Sacraments of Reconciliation (Yom Kippur) and in personal / communal rejoicing from bondage from sin in (Eucharist) by eating the Paschal Lamb.

Divinity touches humanity.

Jesus cried over Jerusalem as he walked from the Temple Mount, and he fortold that all the stones would be thrown down (and they were in 70 AD).

For Jews, multiple communal covenant festivals were forced to change in their application because the Temple Mount was destroyed. Some of those festivals included: Yom Kippur, the Festival of Unleaven Bread and Passover.

 

[po18guy]

:Let me assume or the moment that your reply is correct and complete:

How do you my friend reconcile this with:

1 John 1:8-10; 1 john 5:16-17; John 20:19-23; 1 Peter 1:17 and Rev. 2:23? And what effect does yur position have on the Commandments?

God Bless,
Pat

We still answer for personal sin, since we still possess free will, but His Blood washed us clean of original sin. His Blood reconciles us to God, but our personal sin separates us from Him - but only until we repent (turn).

What, may I ask, was the genesis of this thread?

 

[Publisher]

***Humanity ALONE of ALL OF GOD"S CREATED THINGS have a mind, intellect and FREEWILL… WHY?

Precisely so that We, you, and me, and every other human being can freely choose for ourselves where we WILL spend Eternity. AGREE?***

God Bless,
Pat

No, I don’t agree…but then I’m not Catholic.

Through the steadfastness of God and the depth of His mercy, “His mercy endures forever”…The work and will of God will be accomplished…don’t know how…don’t know when…but One Day all things will be laid at His feet…One Day the “reconcilliation” began at the Cross will be realized…“Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess…”

 

[wmscott]

Wel done:thumbsup:

BUt how does it reconcile with: 1 John 1:8-10; 1 john 5:16-17; John 20:19-23; 1 Peter 1:17 and Rev. 2:23? And what effect does your position have on the Commandments?

God Bless, Pat

Vico posted what I was going to post later after this thread had matured a little. Good on you Vico.

 

[PJM]

=Barbkw;7516617]I would’t say voids, but that Jesus fulfills and extends the Covenant in the Sacraments of Reconciliation (Yom Kippur) and in personal / communal rejoicing from bondage from sin in (Eucharist) by eating the Paschal Lamb.

Divinity touches humanity.

Jesus cried over Jerusalem as he walked from the Temple Mount, and he fortold that all the stones would be thrown down (and they were in 70 AD).

For Jews, multiple communal covenant festivals were forced to change in their application because the Temple Mount was destroyed. Some of those festivals included: Yom Kippur, the Festival of Unleaven Bread and Passover.

I’m in agreement with what you share; but how does in renconcle with: 1 John 1: 8-10; 1 John 1: 5 16-17 and John 20:19-23? Are thse somehow voided bcause of unbelief or unawareness of them?

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

=po18guy;7516242]Christ, being the Paschal Lamb, had to have His Blood shed by man in atonement for man’s sins, just as the Paschal lamb under the Mosaic covenant had its blood shed by man in atonement for sin. And, just as with the Passover Lamb, the flesh had to be eaten.

As to for whom it occurred, I turn to Mark 16:16 “He who believes, and is baptised will be saved. He who does not believe will be condemned”.

Allow me to play the opposite role for you…

So you claim to accept the bible right? So, friend do you accept the entire bible?

**Matt.5: 19 **[Jesus speaking] “Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

**Matt.15: 3 **"He [Jesus] answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

Matt.19: 17 And he [Jesus] said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good.** If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” **

**1John.1: 8 to 10: **“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

**1John.5: 16 to 17 **"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20: 20 to 23 " When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”

Are we not, friend to accept the entire bible to gain RIGHT understanding of i?

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

=po18guy;7516650]We still answer for personal sin, since we still possess free will, but His Blood washed us clean of original sin. His Blood reconciles us to God, but our personal sin separates us from Him - but only until we repent (turn).

What, may I ask, was the genesis of this thread?

Little ol’ me… BUT I rely extensively on the guideance of th Holy Spirt; so thank Him, not me.

Your reply is excellent!

God Bless,
Pat- PJM

 

[po18guy]

Allow me to play the opposite role for you…

So you claim to accept the bible right? So, friend do you accept the entire bible?

**Matt.5: 19 **[Jesus speaking] “Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

**Matt.15: 3 **"He [Jesus] answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

Matt.19: 17 And he [Jesus] said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good.** If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” **

**1John.1: 8 to 10: **“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

**1John.5: 16 to 17 **"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20: 20 to 23 " When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”

Are we not, friend to accept the entire bible to gain RIGHT understanding of i?

God Bless,
Pat

In context, yes. I’m afraid that I completely miss the point of this thread…

 

[PJM]

=po18guy;7522889]In context, yes. I’m afraid that I completely miss the point of this thread…

The point I was making is that to understand ALL that is necessary for one’s personal salvation; one MUST, in an absolute sense accept EVERYTHING Chrit taught; not simply this or that verse that semingly agrees with one’s personal beleifs.

Christ dying on the Cross was not easy; Nor ought we expct our salvation to be.

This precise message is of such GREAT importance that it is repeated FIVE TIMES!

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

God Bless.

Pat

 

[po18guy]

The point I was making is that to understand ALL that is necessary for one’s personal salvation; one MUST, in an absolute sense accept EVERYTHING Chrit taught; not simply this or that verse that semingly agrees with one’s personal beleifs.

Christ dying on the Cross was not easy; Nor ought we expct our salvation to be.

This precise message is of such GREAT importance that it is repeated FIVE TIMES!

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

God Bless.

Pat

I just saw that this was in Non-C. OK, now I get it! You were countering some of the razor-thin theology that is popular nowadays. In addition to what you have mentioned, let’s consider: “He who perseveres to the end will be saved” “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”

You mean, you have to do something?
There’s more to it than “Me and Jesus”?
There’s more to it than the “sinner’s prayer”?
There’s more to it than an “Altar call”?

Next, you will be telling us that we will be judged according to what we’ve done. (Revelation 20:12-13).

Sounds like work…

 

[PJM]

=po18guy;7523181]I just saw that this was in Non-C. OK, now I get it! You were countering some of the razor-thin theology that is popular nowadays. In addition to what you have mentioned, let’s consider: “He who perseveres to the end will be saved” “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”

You mean, you have to do something?
There’s more to it than “Me and Jesus”?
There’s more to it than the “sinner’s prayer”?
There’s more to it than an “Altar call”?

Next, you will be telling us that we will be judged according to what we’ve done. (Revelation 20:12-13).

YEP And I’m NOt Pontificating; just Parroting:

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me [mentioned FIVE TIMES!]

Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple
Sounds like work…

Phil.1: 29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

1Pet.4: 13 ” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1Pet.5: 1, 9 “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

Those who accept that it is posible to participate in Christ GLORY without First, participating in Christ SUFFERING; are missing a Key Biblical Teaching.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[po18guy]

YEP And I’m NOt Pontificating; just Parroting:

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me [mentioned FIVE TIMES!]

Phil.1: 29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

1Pet.4: 13 ” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1Pet.5: 1, 9 “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

Those who accept that it is posible to participate in Christ GLORY without First, participating in Christ SUFFERING; are missing a Key Biblical Teaching.

God Bless,
Pat

Could this just be why the Apostle Paul was working out his salvation with fear and trembling? (1 Corinthians 2:3, Philippians 2:12).

 

[PJM]

Could this just be why the Apostle Paul was working out his salvation with fear and trembling? (1 Corinthians 2:3, Philippians 2:12).

Perhaps?

But more likely Paul had a FAR keener and more PROFOUND understanding of how very much God abhors all sin; and knowing that he too is a siiner; MUST RELY on God’s Benevolent Mercy for Salvation.

Theological discusion continues on the issue of can we KNOW for certian that we are saved? I’m of the opinion that the answer is NO! We can Hope, we can Love and even have Faith in God’s Mercy; BUT Isaiah 55:8-9 makes clear that God sees things diferently than we do. For example: we CANNOT know for sure how many graces God has offered that we have refused to accept. And what this means to our salvation.

Certainly we ARE NOT to despair; but nor should we have complete confedience in having cooperated sufficiently with God, to “merit” our Salvation.

God Bless,
Pat