Why Accept Joseph Smith?

[dianaiad]

Really Diana, you should just let it go. Your posts in regards to this only get more vile.

The above post was 'vile?"

That says a great deal…but not about me.

VickiMonica said nothing about sex being dirty or vile, she said your post was. Which, you know very well is what you were trying to be, in order to make a point, which no one but you seems to get.

I had let it go. I didn’t bring it up, remember, Viki and you did. I took my lumps (and I did get a few…) and went on. You two are the ones who can’t let it go.

Since you DID bring it up, it was perfectly permissible for me to defend myself. I did, and that’s the end of it.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The above post was 'vile?"

Well, it is what I think about a lot of your posts.

You write very well and you know very well how to use words and literary devices. Most of the time you are very passive agressive. Perhaps vile was too strong, but it was at least dishonest to turn a comment about your post into a personal attack on a person’s sexual views. As you imagine them based on your own post, not how they really are. Not to mention, what is the point??

That says a great deal…but not about me.

okee dokee Teflon D

I had let it go. I didn’t bring it up, remember, Viki and you did. I took my lumps (and I did get a few…) and went on. You two are the ones who can’t let it go.

Since you DID bring it up, it was perfectly permissible for me to defend myself. I did, and that’s the end of it.

Responding is not letting it go. I said to Vicki, it was not a characteristic post. I left it at that. That is not hanging onto anything. It was giving you a very nice out to shut up.

 

[mackbrislawn]

I can not for the life of me fathom why Mormons believe so strongly about Joseph Smith being a prophet. Even when you carefully show them the flaws of Joseph Smith, they remain completely bias for him. I don’t understand it. It’s like they care more about protecting a lie then surrendering to truth. Joseph Smith is a ravenous wolf in sheep’s clothing. He dares to make so many believe so strongly in him, even though he himself knows he’s a liar. I believe Mormons believe the BOM because they see no more reason to not believe it than the Bible. Which shows me that their faith is weak in the Bible’s trueness. Many of us are certain there’s enough evidence to varrify what we believe.

I think it is because of the “burning in their bosom,” a knowledge they think comes directly from the Holy Spirit, not from logic or evidence.

 

[lax16]

Well, it is what I think about a lot of your posts.

You write very well and you know very well how to use words and literary devices. Most of the time you are very passive agressive. Perhaps vile was too strong, but it was at least dishonest to turn a comment about your post into a personal attack on a person’s sexual views. As you imagine them based on your own post, not how they really are. Not to mention, what is the point??

okee dokee Teflon D

Responding is not letting it go. I said to Vicki, it was not a characteristic post. I left it at that. That is not hanging onto anything. It was giving you a very nice out to shut up.

Rebecca - I think there is a lot of effort to avoid answering our posts on questions regarding JS, Church history, sealings…and Diana seems to be a bit side-tracked with this.

I really wish we could get back to discussing the real topics at hand, not this, don’t you?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca - I think there is a lot of effort to avoid answering our posts on questions regarding JS, Church history, sealings…and Diana seems to be a bit side-tracked with this.

I really wish we could get back to discussing the real topics at hand, not this, don’t you?

Surely.

 

[SteveVH]

Rebecca - I think there is a lot of effort to avoid answering our posts on questions regarding JS, Church history, sealings…and Diana seems to be a bit side-tracked with this.

I really wish we could get back to discussing the real topics at hand, not this, don’t you?

RebeccaJ:

Surely.

Then why don’t you? This entire episode could have been avoided. I was not at all offended by Diana’s comparison of spousal intimacy with Temple rituals. We have nothing in Catholic liturgy or rites that she could use as a comparison. I get it. I don’t agree that anything should be secret and don’t agree with Mormon doctrine but to blow this up into something it was never intended to be serves no one. I admire the Mormons on this site (that doesn’t mean I agree with them) for hanging in there. They get a lot of grief. I’m happy they are here because I would rather hear from the horses mouth then depend on information from anti-Mormons. Fair is fair. I am guilty myself of being less charitable than I might be but it is something for which we all need to strive.

 

[why_me]

Rebecca - I think there is a lot of effort to avoid answering our posts on questions regarding JS, Church history, sealings…and Diana seems to be a bit side-tracked with this.

I really wish we could get back to discussing the real topics at hand, not this, don’t you?

I have told diana and parker not to be so long winded on these mormon threads. First, very few people actually read what they say and if they do, they read only to disagree. And so, there is really no point in being long winded. Both parker and diana have both answered the same questions over and over again and yet, it still hasn’t sunk in because the catholics here just want to continue what they need to continue to believe about the lds church.

What is unfortunate is that there are always a small minority of catholic posters who come to the mormon threads to bash and mock and make uncharitible comments. And the mormons do respond and then, receive more abuse. Diana is not side tracked at all. But I can understand why she and parker may give up trying to answer questions and say, the heck with this.

 

[AtticusFinch]

I have told diana and parker not to be so long winded on these mormon threads. First, very few people actually read what they say and if they do, they read only to disagree. And so, there is really no point in being long winded. Both parker and diana have both answered the same questions over and over again and yet, it still hasn’t sunk in because the catholics here just want to continue what they need to continue to believe about the lds church.

What is unfortunate is that there are always a small minority of catholic posters who come to the mormon threads to bash and mock and make uncharitible comments. And the mormons do respond and then, receive more abuse. Diana is not side tracked at all. But I can understand why she and parker may give up trying to answer questions and say, the heck with this.

I have gone to LDS boards and they are just as uncharitable and treat Catholic Doctrine very poorly. I have gone to LDS boards where they ban Catholics and other faiths if they say anything at all against JS. The difference is, Catholics don;t give up

 

[lax16]

I have told diana and parker not to be so long winded on these mormon threads. First, very few people actually read what they say and if they do, they read only to disagree. And so, there is really no point in being long winded. Both parker and diana have both answered the same questions over and over again and yet, it still hasn’t sunk in because the catholics here just want to continue what they need to continue to believe about the lds church.

What is unfortunate is that there are always a small minority of catholic posters who come to the mormon threads to bash and mock and make uncharitible comments. And the mormons do respond and then, receive more abuse. Diana is not side tracked at all. But I can understand why she and parker may give up trying to answer questions and say, the heck with this.

I still have a few questions regarding Joseph Smith and plural marriage.

1. Did Emma know about his other relationship(s) before he started them? Did he need her permission?
2. Was it necessary for a man to involve his (first) wife before bringing a new woman into the family?
3. How did the other men come to know about taking plural wives - did God command them directly, or did God command JS to tell them?
4. Did JS ever object to God’s command? (Parker stated that he was against taking other wives because it was too hurtful to Emma) If so, what did he say?
5. How did sealings work in the time of JS?

Thanks!

 

[RebeccaJ]

Then why don’t you? This entire episode could have been avoided. I was not at all offended by Diana’s comparison of spousal intimacy with Temple rituals. We have nothing in Catholic liturgy or rites that she could use as a comparison. I get it. I don’t agree that anything should be secret and don’t agree with Mormon doctrine but to blow this up into something it was never intended to be serves no one. I admire the Mormons on this site (that doesn’t mean I agree with them) for hanging in there. They get a lot of grief. I’m happy they are here because I would rather hear from the horses mouth then depend on information from anti-Mormons. Fair is fair. I am guilty myself of being less charitable than I might be but it is something for which we all need to strive.

I DID! If another poster reads what has been written, that is the nature of the internet. You know, be careful with that mic! If you don’t want people to comment on what you say, then don’t say it!

People were jumping all over viki when she was making a valid comment. I only clarified what she was referring to.

I was not offended by Diana’s comparison. I do think the depth of her questions were not appropriate for a public forum. But whatever, I already said this.

LDS come here to proselytize. If you don’t understand this or believe it then you are naive. They cry persecution when Catholics continue to counter their false teachings.

I’m done here. Catholics want to let the wolves in and welcome them with open arms.

I leave you to their poison.

 

[Jay53]

I’m done here. Catholics want to let the wolves in and welcome them with open arms.

I leave you to their poison.

Don’t leave!! :crying:

:hug1:

 

[lax16]

don’t leave!! :crying:

:hug1:

pleaaasssse don’t go!

 

[RebeccaJ]

I can’t take it anymore. I was baptized in 2008. I didn’t realize then that Christ’s Church is full of people who are sleeping. That is what I see with this awful, endless, scandal. People are asleep, and it takes an incredible, awful something to wake them up. And even then, many are still snoozing away.

I think St. Paul was clear when he said kick the false teachers out. No. We want to welcome them in. Let them seep ever deeper until they are at the heart of innocence.

To tell me to shutup and go to sleep is my invitation to leave.

 

[lax16]

I DID! If another poster reads what has been written, that is the nature of the internet. You know, be careful with that mic! If you don’t want people to comment on what you say, then don’t say it!

People were jumping all over viki when she was making a valid comment. I only clarified what she was referring to.

I was not offended by Diana’s comparison. I do think the depth of her questions were not appropriate for a public forum. But whatever, I already said this.

LDS come here to proselytize. If you don’t understand this or believe it then you are naive. They cry persecution when Catholics continue to counter their false teachings.

I’m done here. Catholics want to let the wolves in and welcome them with open arms.

I leave you to their poison.

Rebecca -
I think SteveH’s post was directed at me.
I think maybe he hasn’t read all of the posts going back and forth showing that you and Diana worked things out a long time ago and that you were giving Diana an out when “the post” got brought up again. You and I know how that whole thing went down (and Dianaiad too).

SteveH’s reminder to everyone to be charitable is good, but you and I know the Catholics here have taken their licks as well. (if anyone would like to discuss this further send me a pm, because I don’t want to re-hash this stuff in front of everyone).
Also, how many times questions go unanswered, then things go off on a tangent about how awful the Catholics are, and then the LDS say they don’t have to respond…

Your (name removed by moderator)ut if so very important - please don’t stop adding your insights, knowledge and experiences.

Besides, if you and the other former Mormons didn’t answer some of the questions on these LDS threads, many of them would go unanswered.

 

[lax16]

I can’t take it anymore. I was baptized in 2008. I didn’t realize then that Christ’s Church is full of people who are sleeping. That is what I see with this awful, endless, scandal. People are asleep, and it takes an incredible, awful something to wake them up. And even then, many are still snoozing away.

I think St. Paul was clear when he said kick the false teachers out. No. We want to welcome them in. Let them seep ever deeper until they are at the heart of innocence.

To tell me to shutup and go to sleep is my invitation to leave.

Some of us are fighting to stay awake!
But, you are right, many are snoozing away.

I’m inviting you (well, okay, begging you) to stay.

 

[why_me]

LDS come here to proselytize. If you don’t understand this or believe it then you are naive. They cry persecution when Catholics continue to counter their false teachings.

I’m done here. Catholics want to let the wolves in and welcome them with open arms.

I leave you to their poison.

Not true at all. Mormons do not come here to proselytize at all. They come here to defend their faith. Most of the mormon threads are started by catholics. Then, antimormon posters begin to attack the lds church. Then, the mormons respond by defending their beliefs. I see no proselytizing at all by the mormons. Don’t start mormon threads, and the mormons will disappear from the board.

 

[why_me]

AtticusFinch;6451742:

Well maybe you could ask him then. Is the History of the Church reliable, or not? As it seems he is telling us ‘no’ it is not reliable, but rely on it anyway.

Which come to think of it, LDS say the same of Smith.

It is reliable but with qualifications. That was the point of my link. Most of it was written after Joseph Smith was murdered. Joseph Smith was not around to check the accuracy of the history.

 

[why_me]

I have gone to LDS boards and they are just as uncharitable and treat Catholic Doctrine very poorly. I have gone to LDS boards where they ban Catholics and other faiths if they say anything at all against JS. The difference is, Catholics don;t give up

I have been on mormon boards and I find your post inaccurate. The tone on this board toward the lds church is disgusting. Those who lurk and read the catholic posts must get a poor impression of the catholic church when one reads the posts that deal with other faiths.

 

[why_me]

I still have a few questions regarding Joseph Smith and plural marriage.

1. Did Emma know about his other relationship(s) before he started them? Did he need her permission?
2. Was it necessary for a man to involve his (first) wife before bringing a new woman into the family?
3. How did the other men come to know about taking plural wives - did God command them directly, or did God command JS to tell them?
4. Did JS ever object to God’s command? (Parker stated that he was against taking other wives because it was too hurtful to Emma) If so, what did he say?
5. How did sealings work in the time of JS?

Thanks!

You can look up answers yourself by just typing in what you want to know in the mormonapologetic site: www.fairlds.org.

As far as question number one, I think that emma some of the time was kept in the dark. She was no fan of polygamy and she let her emotions run wild about it. Joseph Smith was between a rock and a hardplace on this one. He knew that his wife was against it and yet, he felt that he received a commandment to begin polygamy inside the church. At first, he went slowly but then in the early 1840’s he went on a sealing hunt. He married most of his wives during a period of 2 to 3 years.

When Joseph was murdered and emma had time to reflect, it is said that she favored the Kirkland Joseph more than the nauvoo joseph. The kirkland Joseph was not so revolutionary as the nauvoo Joseph. And emma still believe in her husband’s calling and after her husband was murdered she continued to teach her children from the bible and from the book of mormon.

And joseph was no fan of polygamy but he felt that he needed to do it because god commanded it. Such is the mormon position.

 

[twopekinguys]

I will find other articles, when I have time (not now), that I have read that indicated the statistical issue you raised about Utah is isolated to very tiny population areas in the state. These things have been able to be pin-pointed using the very techniques that led to the study you cited.

Still waiting Parker