Why Accept Joseph Smith?

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You can look up answers yourself by just typing in what you want to know in the mormonapologetic site: www.fairlds.org.

As far as question number one, I think that emma some of the time was kept in the dark. She was no fan of polygamy and she let her emotions run wild about it. Joseph Smith was between a rock and a hardplace on this one. He knew that his wife was against it and yet, he felt that he received a commandment to begin polygamy inside the church. At first, he went slowly but then in the early 1840’s he went on a sealing hunt. He married most of his wives during a period of 2 to 3 years.

When Joseph was murdered and emma had time to reflect, it is said that she favored the Kirkland Joseph more than the nauvoo joseph. The kirkland Joseph was not so revolutionary as the nauvoo Joseph. And emma still believe in her husband’s calling and after her husband was murdered she continued to teach her children from the bible and from the book of mormon.

And joseph was no fan of polygamy but he felt that he needed to do it because god commanded it. Such is the mormon position.
thanks, whyme, for the link. I was able to get the LDS perspective on some of my questions.
What I was unable to find out was if JS ever asked God about his commandment regarding polygamy and telling God how hurtful it would be to Emma.
Also, who commanded the other men about plural wives? God? JS?

Thanks!
 
Still waiting Parker
Why does Utah lead the United States in subscriptions to online adult entertainment?

Response
Is the Ranking Significant?
Professor Edelman mentioned in his paper that difference from the top state to the bottom state on this metric is rather small.

While Utah is also a participant in the worldwide pornography phenomenon, it is not significantly above other states in their participation. Of course the question still to be resolved is why Utah is the leader in this comparison.

Use of adult entertainment sites is very pervasive. The same report states, “As of June 2008, 36 percent of Internet users visit at least one adult website each month” (page 212).

What Makes Utah Different?
Utah has significant restrictions on the display and sales of hard core pornographic materials. The Utah Statutes [1] have the effect of making it much more difficult to get easy access to adult material. This forces those who might otherwise buy magazines or other adult materials to use the web to get access to that information. In Utah, access to most adult entertainment requires the use of the Internet. Therefore, the number of Internet users of pornography would be higher than states with different laws if all other factors were the same.

In an email with Deseret News, Edelman write, “one possibility is that Utah consumers find it difficult to obtain their desired adult entertainment through retail purchases. . . . As a result, Utah residents may be buying online (hence appearing in my dataset), whereas people elsewhere buy retail (hence not in my dataset).” [2]

Even though Utah started out as predominantly LDS, that is no longer the case. LDS population estimates for Utah suggest that they only make up 60% of the state with Salt Lake County barely over 50%. Even these figures will not give a complete pictures since many of those that are still considered members of the Church have no active involvement in the Church or feel a need to maintain Church standards.

“The forbidden is really tempting,” University of Utah sociology professor Theresa A. Martinez told Davidson. “Where you have a culture that is known for family values, morality and apple pie, you will also have curiosity and interest in the forbidden.”[4]

Do Some in Utah Have a Pornography Addiction?
Yes, of course, as do some throughout the rest of the United States. Interestingly, Utah is also more concerned about pornography addiction than any other state as shown by ranking in Google Trends. Using Utah as the baseline, the three top states for “pornography addiction” search request are 100% in Utah, 43% in Idaho and 23.5% in Tennessee, with Salt Lake City (100%), Boise, Idaho (41.5%)and Portland, Oregon (26.5%) as the three leading cities.

There are Pornography Addiction Support Group (PASG) meetings run by LDS Family Services throughout Utah most days of the week. LDS Family Services sponsors addiction recovery support meetings to assist individuals who desire freedom from addiction and a better life through gospel fellowship.

Conclusion
The difference between top and bottom state is small—it may be difficult to draw firm conclusions when relatively small numbers of people can make the difference in ranking.
Legal restrictions on other forms of pornography in Utah may make on-line sources the most attractive for those who seek this material.
The social/religious pressure against pornography in LDS culture may make the privacy of on-line access particularly appealing, as opposed to sex shops, porno theaters, magazine subscriptions or purchases, etc.
Utah has many characteristics which would tend to increase use in this type of study:
higher than average household income data
population that skews younger data
higher than average college graduates data
conservative legislation controlling pornography distribution via other channels
conservative ideas about religion, marriage, and God (perhaps at least partly due to the social stigma against pornography consumption that is not ‘hidden’ from others)
It is not clear, however, that the characteristics of Utah (e.g., less divorce, more education, younger) are necessarily bad things. Utah may represent a sort of “perfect storm” in this study in which a number of factors come together to boost its scores.

The Church, of course, abhors and repudiates both the production of pornography—which exploits the participants—and its consumption, since it is spiritually damaging and harmful to a healthy marital and sexual life.

en.fairmormon.org/Statistical_claims/Pornography_use_in_Utah
 
Rebecca -
I think SteveH’s post was directed at me.
I think maybe he hasn’t read all of the posts going back and forth showing that you and Diana worked things out a long time ago and that you were giving Diana an out when “the post” got brought up again. You and I know how that whole thing went down (and Dianaiad too).

SteveH’s reminder to everyone to be charitable is good, but you and I know the Catholics here have taken their licks as well. (if anyone would like to discuss this further send me a pm, because I don’t want to re-hash this stuff in front of everyone).
Also, how many times questions go unanswered, then things go off on a tangent about how awful the Catholics are, and then the LDS say they don’t have to respond…

Your (name removed by moderator)ut if so very important - please don’t stop adding your insights, knowledge and experiences.

Besides, if you and the other former Mormons didn’t answer some of the questions on these LDS threads, many of them would go unanswered.😉
It’s not just this one thread or subject. It is the relativism that is permeated in everything. It is the sleeping pill that is like the fairy magic dust, spread over the kingdom to put it to sleep.

Some have taken in so much of it they are comatose. (I’m not talking about any particular person.) People are confusing relativism for charity.

No, I am not perfect. I am a sinner. But this “we all sin” has become an ingredient of the sleeping pill. A platitude.

I try to make the object of my life my encounter with Christ. I fail in many ways. It is by His grace that we have forgiveness and charity, which is His love.

I have been thinking for a long time of pursuing my faith outside of online conversations. It has been especially on my mind during Lent. I think it has just finally clarified for me why it is, exactly, I need to make a change.

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

Father Giussani, pray for us.
 
LDS come here to proselytize. If you don’t understand this or believe it then you are naive. They cry persecution when Catholics continue to counter their false teachings.

I’m done here. Catholics want to let the wolves in and welcome them with open arms.
I agree. I think they are here to proselytize which includes spreading their version of Catholic teachings. They are not here to learn about the Catholic Church because they think they already know about it. I know my Mormon friends in high school did. I believe their preferred method is to argue against the Catholic Church because they can’t rationally support the Mormon Church. When some one wants an explanation of some idea or practice invented by Joseph Smith, they want to compare it to what they believe the Catholic Church teaches or practices. They are almost always wrong; and never explain the idea or practice invented by Joseph Smith. Their tactic then turns the thread into a defense of the Catholic practice they don’t really understand, and they still can not defend the idea or practice invented by Joseph Smith. There are exception but I learn the most about Mormonism from you and other ex-Mormons. I think you need to stick around to continue to help point out the lies.
 
I have been on mormon boards and I find your post inaccurate. The tone on this board toward the lds church is disgusting. Those who lurk and read the catholic posts must get a poor impression of the catholic church when one reads the posts that deal with other faiths.
I could care less if you find them inaccurate. I am not surprised you disagree. With all the running from truth you exhibit here, why would I expect truth?

What I stated was fact.
 
It’s not just this one thread or subject. It is the relativism that is permeated in everything. It is the sleeping pill that is like the fairy magic dust, spread over the kingdom to put it to sleep.

Some have taken in so much of it they are comatose. (I’m not talking about any particular person.) People are confusing relativism for charity.

No, I am not perfect. I am a sinner. But this “we all sin” has become an ingredient of the sleeping pill. A platitude.

I try to make the object of my life my encounter with Christ. I fail in many ways. It is by His grace that we have forgiveness and charity, which is His love.

I have been thinking for a long time of pursuing my faith outside of online conversations. It has been especially on my mind during Lent. I think it has just finally clarified for me why it is, exactly, I need to make a change.

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

Father Giussani, pray for us.
Rebecca - Do what you know God is calling you to do. You have contributed a whole heck of a lot here on CAF.
I’m sure there is plenty of work to be done sharing your Catholic faith in Utah!🙂
 
Rebecca -
I think SteveH’s post was directed at me.
I think maybe he hasn’t read all of the posts going back and forth showing that you and Diana worked things out a long time ago and that you were giving Diana an out when “the post” got brought up again. You and I know how that whole thing went down (and Dianaiad too).

SteveH’s reminder to everyone to be charitable is good, but you and I know the Catholics here have taken their licks as well. (if anyone would like to discuss this further send me a pm, because I don’t want to re-hash this stuff in front of everyone).
Also, how many times questions go unanswered, then things go off on a tangent about how awful the Catholics are, and then the LDS say they don’t have to respond…

Your (name removed by moderator)ut if so very important - please don’t stop adding your insights, knowledge and experiences.

Besides, if you and the other former Mormons didn’t answer some of the questions on these LDS threads, many of them would go unanswered.😉
Lax and Rebecca: Maybe its just me but it seems that many of the LDS threads have started to become just a place to bicker. I have to admit that I have not helped in certain instances. I find it very easy to become frustrated with answers which I don’t feel are really answers, or concepts I just find ludicrous sometimes. I do have a reason for paying attention to LDS threads (mostly started by Catholics). A dear young person who was in my youth group has jumped onto the LDS ship. I want to understand this religion so that I can communicate with her. I feel like I kind of chastised the both of you and would like to apologize for that. It would just be nice if we could try and stay on topic and leave the personal stuff out. I am speaking to myself as well. Rebecca, I hope to see many more posts from you. I totally agree that your experience as a former Mormon is invaluable and so is your experience as a convert. Please hang in there.

God bless both of you.
 
Lax and Rebecca: Maybe its just me but it seems that many of the LDS threads have started to become just a place to bicker. I have to admit that I have not helped in certain instances. I find it very easy to become frustrated with answers which I don’t feel are really answers, or concepts I just find ludicrous sometimes. I do have a reason for paying attention to LDS threads (mostly started by Catholics). A dear young person who was in my youth group has jumped onto the LDS ship. I want to understand this religion so that I can communicate with her. I feel like I kind of chastised the both of you and would like to apologize for that. It would just be nice if we could try and stay on topic and leave the personal stuff out. I am speaking to myself as well. Rebecca, I hope to see many more posts from you. I totally agree that your experience as a former Mormon is invaluable and so is your experience as a convert. Please hang in there.

God bless both of you.
I completely agree with this and hope that Rebecca stays!
 
Lax and Rebecca: Maybe its just me but it seems that many of the LDS threads have started to become just a place to bicker. I have to admit that I have not helped in certain instances. I find it very easy to become frustrated with answers which I don’t feel are really answers, or concepts I just find ludicrous sometimes. I do have a reason for paying attention to LDS threads (mostly started by Catholics). A dear young person who was in my youth group has jumped onto the LDS ship. I want to understand this religion so that I can communicate with her. I feel like I kind of chastised the both of you and would like to apologize for that. It would just be nice if we could try and stay on topic and leave the personal stuff out. I am speaking to myself as well. Rebecca, I hope to see many more posts from you. I totally agree that your experience as a former Mormon is invaluable and so is your experience as a convert. Please hang in there.

God bless both of you.
You hit the problem on the head when it comes to bickering.

For some catholics on these mormon threads, they just can’t seem to leave their hatred at the door. It colors their posts. It then becomes a place for bickering.

Your friend chose the lds faith because it it their place at this morment in their lives. She finds comfort in mormonism. It is not a bad religion and it can be a place where one can live a good life with a foundation in christian lifestyle. But if you listen to some of the catholic posters on the mormon threads, she is now a member of satan’s elect.

No mormon will take lightly attacks on Joseph Smith that are inflaming. Now, if catholic posters will tone down the rhetoric and hatred for everything mormon, a good discussion can take place.
 
It’s not just this one thread or subject. It is the relativism that is permeated in everything. It is the sleeping pill that is like the fairy magic dust, spread over the kingdom to put it to sleep.

Some have taken in so much of it they are comatose. (I’m not talking about any particular person.) People are confusing relativism for charity.

No, I am not perfect. I am a sinner. But this “we all sin” has become an ingredient of the sleeping pill. A platitude.

I try to make the object of my life my encounter with Christ. I fail in many ways. It is by His grace that we have forgiveness and charity, which is His love.
It has nothing to do with relativism. But it has everything to do with the lds challenging your interpretations. You may not realize this but your posts can sound quite hateful for all things mormon. I still have no idea how you survive in the heart of mormonland. I am sure that you interact with mormons everyday and they are friendly and nice to you. I just can not see you having your internet persona around them.

You need to understand what it means to respond with charity. It is a very catholic concept. Charity imparts love and not hate. Mormons have come on this forum to defend their faith from the mormon threads that catholics start and they receive grief for doing so. Many have come and gone, prefering to leave the forum because of its contentionness toward all things mormon. They see no point in staying. And who can blame them when they attempt to answer the same questions over and over again and yet, the same questions are asked all over again wih contempt.

I have tried to put myself in your situation. There I am living among the mormons that I hate. I hate their faith and I hate the way the mormons are. And yet, I still live among them. It would certainly put a lot of pressure on my mind as the frustration builds up until it comes out on the mormon threads in this forum as an outlet.
 
It has nothing to do with relativism. But it has everything to do with the lds challenging your interpretations. You may not realize this but your posts can sound quite hateful for all things mormon. I still have no idea how you survive in the heart of mormonland. I am sure that you interact with mormons everyday and they are friendly and nice to you. I just can not see you having your internet persona around them.

You need to understand what it means to respond with charity. It is a very catholic concept. Charity imparts love and not hate. Mormons have come on this forum to defend their faith from the mormon threads that catholics start and they receive grief for doing so. Many have come and gone, prefering to leave the forum because of its contentionness toward all things mormon. They see no point in staying. And who can blame them when they attempt to answer the same questions over and over again and yet, the same questions are asked all over again wih contempt.

I have tried to put myself in your situation. There I am living among the mormons that I hate. I hate their faith and I hate the way the mormons are. And yet, I still live among them. It would certainly put a lot of pressure on my mind as the frustration builds up until it comes out on the mormon threads in this forum as an outlet.
But I also know, Rebecca that you are a good person who loves god. And you seem to be a very good catholic, attending Mass and attempting to do what is right. And I am sure that other catholic posters on the mormon threads are the same. But the antimormon rhetoric by some of the catholic posters is self-defeating and it serves no purpose. I think that it gives the catholic church a bad reputation when catholic posters become hostile sounding to other faiths.
 
You hit the problem on the head when it comes to bickering.

For some catholics on these mormon threads, they just can’t seem to leave their hatred at the door. It colors their posts. It then becomes a place for bickering.

Your friend chose the lds faith because it it their place at this morment in their lives. She finds comfort in mormonism. It is not a bad religion and it can be a place where one can live a good life with a foundation in christian lifestyle. But if you listen to some of the catholic posters on the mormon threads, she is now a member of satan’s elect.

No mormon will take lightly attacks on Joseph Smith that are inflaming. Now, if catholic posters will tone down the rhetoric and hatred for everything mormon, a good discussion can take place.
The problem is, so many of you are are rude. And whenever someone says anything about Joe, you go into a frenzy and claim it HAS to be hatred. How can anyone talk about JS in a negative light unless there is hatred? I have sensed no hatred on this board from Catholics. There are just a few of us who will continue to post the truth when y’all post the whitewashed version of him and the LDS Church.
 
why me, you are past comatose. Your relativism is past being a drug but has become your religion.

Please don’t ever speak to me again. As I am done speaking to you.
 
why me, you are past comatose. Your relativism is past being a drug but has become your religion.

Please don’t ever speak to me again. As I am done speaking to you.
You will feel better in the long run. I know I do.
 
why me, you are past comatose. Your relativism is past being a drug but has become your religion.

Please don’t ever speak to me again. As I am done speaking to you.
:rotfl::rotfl:

From my years of sharing on these boards, I would be hard pressed to think of another poster that causes me to enter “mind-bending” mode as much as he does.

I, for one, always seem to look forward to his contributions in a bizarre kind of way.🙂

Peace,
Ceeboo
 
why me, you are past comatose. Your relativism is past being a drug but has become your religion.

Please don’t ever speak to me again. As I am done speaking to you.
Rebecca:

It is beyond arrogant to demand that someone stop speaking to you on public message boards. The vast majority of the English speaking world has some concept of 'freedom of speech" which generally insures that you CANNOT demand that another stop speaking if it offends you.

The moderators of this forum can, and thank the good sense of the CAF that they do. However, mere guests, like us, cannot, and should not.

On the other hand, freedom of speech does not equate to 'freedom to make others listen to you." Therefore, if you do not wish to talk to, or see, what whyme has to say to you, put him in your ignore list. While you have no right to shut him up, you certainly have the right to refuse to see, or listen, to him.

…by the way, I thought you were leaving the forum?

I’m glad you seem to have changed your mind.
 
Rebecca:

It is beyond arrogant to demand that someone stop speaking to you on public message boards. The vast majority of the English speaking world has some concept of 'freedom of speech" which generally insures that you CANNOT demand that another stop speaking if it offends you.

The moderators of this forum can, and thank the good sense of the CAF that they do. However, mere guests, like us, cannot, and should not.

On the other hand, freedom of speech does not equate to 'freedom to make others listen to you." Therefore, if you do not wish to talk to, or see, what whyme has to say to you, put him in your ignore list. While you have no right to shut him up, you certainly have the right to refuse to see, or listen, to him.

…by the way, I thought you were leaving the forum?

I’m glad you seem to have changed your mind.
sprinkle sprinkle sprinkle little fairy.

I can say whatever I like to why me. Oh thou miss freedom of speech hypocrite.
 
Rebecca:

It is beyond arrogant to demand that someone stop speaking to you on public message boards.

No, it is beyond arrogant that when someone says to stop talking to them, the other person keeps talking to them.

The vast majority of the English speaking world has some concept of 'freedom of speech" which generally insures that you CANNOT demand that another stop speaking if it offends you.

First Amendment Freedoms do not apply to chat boards. However, I find it humorous for someone who excuses Joseph’s violation of the Constitution to use the Constitution to force a chatboard issue. Way too funny.
 
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