R
RebeccaJ
Guest
We call it a profession of faith…Credo in unum Deum…I believe in one God.
ie, the faith that Christians profess…ready set…flurry of typing by Dianaiad. :curtsey:
- Status
ie, the faith that Christians profess…ready set…flurry of typing by Dianaiad. :curtsey:
R
Religio71
Guest
HA, I was just listening to the Credo gregorian chant. Beautiful! (went to a low TLM on wednesday. i prefer the missa cantata though)
youtube.com/watch?v=yDortyyp228
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
We do it up this way every Sunday.
We’re not TLM, just, we chant the Credo in Latin.
R
Religio71
Guest
jealous. I just moved back to NYC area, so I’m looking for my new church home. Surprisingly, the TLM I went to had a good mix of ages, I assumed a mid week TLM would be all 50+ people, so good to see more embracing old traditions.We do it up this way every Sunday.
Alas, further off topic.
D
dianaiad
Guest
Too tired. Not in the mood. G’nite.We call it a profession of faith…Credo in unum Deum…I believe in one God.
ie, the faith that Christians profess…ready set…flurry of typing by Dianaiad. :curtsey:
M
MelanieAnne
Guest
I agree Steph. I have been to many Mormon meetings with my friends at various times in my life and, despite the official “policy” of not bad-mouthing other faiths, every single time I have ever heard someone in a Mormon meeting talk about another faith it has been derogatory. If a Mormon posting to this forum has never witnessed something similar in their meetings despite years of faithful attendance, I find that amazing, since I’ve gone to so few meetings in my life, only sporadically with friends, and yet I have seen it happen multiple times.
What does it happen? It’s human. People do it. Should they do it? Probably not. But they do. Mormons would do well to drop the “holy” attitude that it just doesn’t happen at THEIR church. It does. So does pedophilia, so does adultery, so does a host of other bad things because Mormon church buildings are populated by fallible human beings just like all other church buildings.
Z
zerinus
Guest
I am certainly a Mormon (good or bad not for me to say); and I can assure you that I don’t “hold the same set of beliefs about your religion” that you hold about mine. I don’t think that Catholicism is “just plain wrong from top to bottom;” I don’t think that “some of the motivation for the good things” that Catholic do “may be coming from the wrong place;” and I don’t think that your religion is “fundamentally flawed and spiritually dangerous”. But I do believe that early Christianity apostatized in the first century or shortly thereafter, and lost the priesthood authority that it once possessed; and that that priesthood authority has now been restored in the LDS Church.
J
Jerusha
Guest
Your attitude is vastly improved, Zerinus. 
There is almost an admission that we have the right to believe how we believe in that statement. 
There is almost an admission that we have the right to believe how we believe in that statement.
T
tundramom
Guest
No he didn’t mention Catholics. But when he talked about the Trinity there was much laughter in the congregation. I don’t think Mormons exclusively attack the Catholic church. I grew up in Utah Valley and it seems rather odd to me as well that others here who are Mormons have not had any of the experiences I did have when I was Mormon.
in Christ
Steph
D
dianaiad
Guest
You have the right to believe whatever you wish to believe, Jerusha. You have the right to say whatever you wish to say. You have the right to be as derogatory and dismissive of faiths other than your own as you wish.Your attitude is vastly improved, Zerinus.
And we have the absolute right to believe as we wish, and to let you know what we think about what you say.
P
PaulDupre
Guest
It happened to my mother last Sunday. My sister’s husband (a very nice guy who is very good to my mom) was being set apart as counselor in the bishopric and they really wanted all the family there. So my mom reluctantly agreed to go. She reported that in the sacrament meeting and in relief society there was Catholic-bashing and misrepresentation of our beliefs (right in front of my mom, whom they all know is Catholic). Mom wanted to speak up and correct them, but she is 82 years old and didn’t have the strength. My sister, who knows what Catholics really believe, later apologized to mom on behalf of the boorish members, but my sister did not speak up when the false witness was being spoken.
D
dianaiad
Guest
R
Robert_in_SD
Guest
My dear Z. If what you say is correct, then you are holding two contrary opinions simultaneously. You cannot simultaneously believe that (1) Catholicism is not wrong from top to bottom; and (2) It apostatized early in its history. The two concepts are mutually exclusive. Apostacy is the act of complete rejection of the Christian faith. If the Catholic Church has completely rejected the Christian faith, then there can be nothing right about it (and since I was limiting my comments strictly to doctrinal matters, I will assume you hold the same limits). Do you not see your inconsistency here?
As for the incorrect motivation and spiritual dangers of mormonism. These two concepts from from the first principle - IMO. If you believe that Catholicism is “apostate” - then you must logically conclude that: (1) our motivations (on a doctrinal level) are possibly misplaced; and (2) our apostate religion is potentially harmful to our eternal progression. To say otherwise is to be disingenuous, although that may be flowing from some altruistic or ecumenical sentiment on your part. None of this has anything to do with the fact that I may think you’re a great person and might enjoy having a glass of lemonade with you. We have an obligation to be honest with each other about our differing viewpoints on our differing faiths.
I’m sure you disagree with Catholicism. But I’m not going to bash you for being a Mormon. I expect you to tell me why you think I am wrong while I do the same for your benefit. Our mutual obligation is to remain charitable.
Peace,
Robert
J
Jerusha
Guest
I have the right to ignore and discount what you (all) have to say.
You do not have the right to impose your beliefs on others. You have no right to paint black (LOL) anyone who, with an open mind and intent on finding a common ground, undertakes an intensive study of the BOM and Mormon history, and finds solid ground in the Spalding “theory”, and moral defects in Mormon “ethics”. In particular, you have no right to condemn someone who believes that it is premature to publish such a study. :tsktsk:
Is it “white privilege” that makes you think that you have the responsibility to upset my world?
D
dianaiad
Guest
You are quite right. I do not. I think that the quote on that is ‘your right to swing your arm ends at the tip of my nose.’
However, I haven’t imposed my beliefs on anybody, y’know.
Of course I have that right. Just as you have the right to insult, degrade, deride and lie about my faith, and just as you have the right to make the incredibly racist and insulting comment below.
Z
Zundrah
Guest
I suppose that the only thing that upsets me about mormons (the only thing that upsets me) is that apparently my baptism wasn’t real. Only a baptism in the mormon church is genuine?
D
dianaiad
Guest
No, we do not believe that it is. Oh, it’s ‘genuine’ in that you were baptized and you believe that it is, but we believe that ordinances such as this are priesthood matters that must be done by those actually having the authority to do that.
…and we believe that because that priesthood authority was lost fairly early on, and was restored to the earth to Joseph Smith, that we are the only folks that can perform a valid baptism.
why should that make you mad, Zundrah? You don’t believe that we are correct about that anyway, so what difference does it make?
If it helps you any, though, we don’t believe that everybody who hasn’t been baptized is automatically headed for hell, though others who have a wider acceptance of baptisms than we do certainly claim WE are headed there.
W
why_me
Guest
I would go to the Old Saint Patrick’s Cathedral on the east side on Mulberry Street. It is very beautiful. oldcathedral.org/ And when you are there you will find a portrait of Mother Theresa and a place to kneel. Ask her for guidance in how to show love to other people of other faiths who may not agree with catholicism. I am sure that she will help you.jealous. I just moved back to NYC area, so I’m looking for my new church home. Alas, further off topic.
And then you can go to the catholic Worker at Maryknoll house on east third street and work the soup kitchen. They are wonderful people at the catholic worker. I would even recomend that you get their newspaper. catholicworker.org/ You will be surprised how preaching can be done without saying a word as you feed the poor of various backgrouds and faiths. I was just there for a brief visit and they are friendly and hospitable. Good luck!
Z
Zundrah
Guest
…
?
Dianaiad it doesn’t make me mad, when i said that it upsets me I literally meant upset; as in sad, but not angry.
I don’t think for a minite that mormons are going to hell. That is just spiteful to say or think so.
You are not going to hell, unless of course God sends you there for sin obviously.
P
ParkerD
Guest
Zundrah,
In addition to the reply given by Diana, I had thought about a couple of other things when I noticed your question here.
A person who is baptized by water will want the baptism of “fire” or in other words, the Holy Spirit, right away in their life since baptism is an “entry” step into a whole process–the process of following Christ and becoming like Christ through His help and guidance and through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So the two “ordinances” of baptism and receiving the “gift of the Holy Spirit” should happen successively. This happened in New Testament times on many occasions as recorded in Acts.
Without the ongoing influence of the Holy Spirit, a person who was baptized, although very sincere and no doubt a follower of Christ, will not have the kind of two-way communication with God that will sustain them during the challenges and difficulties of their life to the same extent as a person who has the Holy Spirit with them. The New Testament talks about sanctification. The Holy Spirit is necessary for that sanctification to happen.
In order for the Holy Spirit to provide that two-way communication and sanctification on an ongoing basis, it seems logical to me that God would have a valid pattern for that to happen, and would expect that pattern to be followed rather than humankind saying “the pattern doesn’t matter–only my intent matters”. I think that to God, intent does matter very much, but the pattern also matters, and the authority matters.
I hope this has clarified a bit more for you. Have a good evening.
- Status