Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

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pathia said:
True, I just find it interesting to point out. United is one of the companies that used rescission one me, when I was a minor by the way, which lead to my first bankruptcy before I had even turned 20. Anything that’s good for profits is good for everyone? Right? RIGHT!?
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No, anything that is good for profit is not good for everyone.
I’m not sure anyone has tried to make that claim.

In fact, there are very few things that are good for everyone- oxygen, um, water…that’s all I can think of for now, and even those are debatable when you get into quantities.

On that note, it is true that our healthcare system is not good for everyone.
And the same is true of universal healthcare.

That reminds me of a significant advantage of the market healthcare system over universal healthcare- which is that market healthcare allows for numerous healthcare models to co-exist and compete against one another, such that healthcare evolves over time to meet the needs of the market more effectively. Universal healthcare models, single payer or otherwise, create a government monopoly that eliminates competition, and so has no reason or incentive to evolve to the needs of the market, and quickly becomes stagnant.
 
Oscarthecat said:
That reminds me of a significant advantage of the market healthcare system over universal healthcare- which is that market healthcare allows for numerous healthcare models to co-exist and compete against one another, such that healthcare evolves over time to meet the needs of the market more effectively. Universal healthcare models, single payer or otherwise, create a government monopoly that eliminates competition, and so has no reason or incentive to evolve to the needs of the market, and quickly becomes stagnant.
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How am I ever to get insurance then? They won’t sell me. No matter what is done, unless the government points a gun at them and says they cannot deny me, they will deny me. No free market competition is going to make them suddenly make me a desirable customer, it’s just not going to happen. They will deny me until they are forced to not deny me, it’s as simple as that.
 
pathia said:
How am I ever to get insurance then? They won’t sell me. No matter what is done, unless the government points a gun at them and says they cannot deny me, they will deny me. No free market competition is going to make them suddenly make me a desirable customer, it’s just not going to happen. They will deny me until they are forced to not deny me, it’s as simple as that.
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People are charged in accordance with what they can be expected to cost the company with profit tacked on. If someone is very likely to need a large amount of money, the insurance company could either charge them huge amounts of money or refuse coverage.

If the insurance industry had the same regulation as the car insurance industry (more competitive/ to sell in a certain state you are required to take on a percentage of the ‘dead weight’) then preexisting conditions wouldn’t be an issue.

Those who are ‘uninsurable’ would get insurance essentially the same way those with multiple accidents on their record get car insurance- there is no purely free market way to get this done, since it’s highly unprofitable.
 
While some here worry about make carn sure than insurance company get their profit, Someone like Pathia is dieing. Sound like priorities are not inline here. Someone has to die in order for someone to make millions of bucks is what it boils down to. Shame on anyone for defending the current system, there shouldn’t even be ONE case like Pathia’s possible. ONE case is one case too many.
 
aspawloski4th said:
While some here worry about make carn sure than insurance company get their profit, Someone like Pathia is dieing. Sound like priorities are not inline here. Someone has to die in order for someone to make millions of bucks is what it boils down to. Shame on anyone for defending the current system, there shouldn’t even be ONE case like Pathia’s possible. ONE case is one case too many.
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Oh, then I guess we should go with new system where there will be free care, no debt, more care, no waiting, and 100% survival rates. Oh, and unicorns.
 
peary1 said:
It all comes down to - who are you to tell anyone what their net worth is? Who are you to make that judgment call?
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I say it as a person they ejected as a customer, which led to two bankruptcies and a life of permanent pain, suffering and being un-insurable.
 
pathia said:
I say it as a person they ejected as a customer, which led to two bankruptcies and a life of permanent pain, suffering and being un-insurable.
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I still do not think that anyone has any right to make a value judgment on someone else’s net worth, or how much he or she makes, etc. That is just based on jealously and covetessness.

I have empathy for your predicament. In the healthcare bill, there is a provision that will end insurance companies from turning away individuals with pre-conditions. But this won’t go into effect until 2014, although we all will be paying taxes on it as soon as a final bill is passed.
 
peary1 said:
I still do not think that anyone has any right to make a value judgment on someone else’s net worth, or how much he or she makes, etc. That is just based on jealously and covetessness.

I have empathy for your predicament. In the healthcare bill, there is a provision that will end insurance companies from turning away individuals with pre-conditions. But this won’t go into effect until 2014, although we all will be paying taxes on it as soon as a final bill is passed.
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They apparently think they have the right to rescind a contract after the fact, full well knowing that I will become toxic to every insurer on the market, condemning me to a lifetime of pain and suffering. They full well knew my conditions, my conditions were WHY they dissolved the plan. They knew what they were doing to me, what I would never again be able to have.

Is it jealousy to want to be healthy? Is it coveting to want to have a life not full of unending, non-stopping agonizing pain? Is it jealousy to get angry when you find out the company that intentionally and willfully dumped me on the street to a lifetime of lack of medical treatment, while giving their CEO a billion dollars? People probably got performance raises because of the fact they dumped my family as a customer, they were PAID to do this to me.
 
pathia said:
How am I ever to get insurance then? They won’t sell me. No matter what is done, unless the government points a gun at them and says they cannot deny me, they will deny me. No free market competition is going to make them suddenly make me a desirable customer, it’s just not going to happen. They will deny me until they are forced to not deny me, it’s as simple as that.
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I think we’ve been through this before in another discussion thread.
 
pathia said:
True, I just find it interesting to point out. United is one of the companies that used rescission one me, when I was a minor by the way, which lead to my first bankruptcy before I had even turned 20. Anything that’s good for profits is good for everyone? Right? RIGHT!?
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Recessions are not new- I would expect that the only reason they have been given tacit approval is no congressman or senator wants to have his name attached to legislation that is 100% guaranteed to harm the vast majority. An immoral call on their part? Yes- Machiavellian principals dominate democracies more so than they ever did with the principalities they were written for.
 
pathia said:
No answer has ever been given to me, except the following 1.) Pray 2.) Beg 3.) Give Up and Die.
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That’s not true.

You’ve pointed out before that there are communities in the U.S. which prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage.

But rather than move to one of those places, you would rather force the rest of the country to change.
 
aspawloski4th said:
The they didn’t have a legal right to deny it. They told me they did cover it, then tryed to renig on it, thats called fraud… Bate and switch. The deal with them not wanting to cover it took a couple months.
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Did you write down the name of the person who you originally talked to?
 
Ella said:
This is not true. If anyone without insurance walks into a hospital ER, they will be treated - and *billed *- and if they cannot pay the bill they will be subject to the tender mercies of collection agencies until they pay all that they can. If that bankrupts them, then the remainder of the bill will be passed on to others in the form of higher medical costs.

Also - if someone has a chronic condition, like diabetes for instance, their condition is simply not treatable by an ER. An ER cannot give them the constant care they need, nor supply them with insulin and test strips and so forth.
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All one has to do is contact the hospital and arrange a payment schedule. If you are willing to work with them they usually will work with you. You always repeat the terms back to them when making the arrangements and always write down the time, date and person you spoke with in case a problem arises.
 
aspawloski4th said:
And despite the fact yuou mention it over and over that stistic in irrelevent.
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No it isn’t. You can whine all you want to about how evil insurance companies are and how they are greedy and still doesn’t change the fact you have no basis for your arguement when they have one of the lowest profit margins in corporate america. Even if you cut out the large compensation plans, it would raise their profits less than 1%. To get 100% coverage for everyone under our current government regulations, they would have to jack everyones premiums up to just keep the lights on and keep paying claims. If that happened, you would still be whining how it wasn’t fair you had to pay more a year.

Instead of real reform, like allowing interstate competition between insurance companies, doing away with the bans on provate HSA’s, and loosening the mandates that every insurance policy has to include so many items whether the consumer wants them or not, you just want to screw up the system so you can get yours and to h*ll with everybody else, including those in your situations. I’ve tried to be patient, have prayed for you and your family and tried to be tactful, but I’m getting really sick of your whining and your pontificating that others will go to Hell if they don’t agree with you. You went on about having a degree in meteorology; well use it. You got fired from a job b/c someone didn’t like you; I’m sorry that happened but why not get back in the saddle and move one?
 
wabrams said:
No it isn’t. You can whine all you want to about how evil insurance companies are and how they are greedy and still doesn’t change the fact you have no basis for your arguement when they have one of the lowest profit margins in corporate america.
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We are discussing people here, in which case that has to take a back seat. We need a single payer system to take that worry that gets in the way of everything out of the mix.
 
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