Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

  • Thread starter Thread starter aspawloski4th
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Well let’s see-
As I recall, Jesus once asked a wealthy man to sell his goods and give the resulting money to the poor.
The wealthy man refused.
Jesus allowed him to leave

This would make me think that Jesus is directly opposed to forcing those with money to help others like, oh I dunno, taking the money of others to pay for health care.
He also told the man that it would be easier for a camel to get through a eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. Now im not saying that there shouldn;t be rich people. But i do believe Jesus comment was about people putting their wealth before God. And following God means helping others. Does it not?
 
Please show me where in that scripture passage (which you still haven’t referenced) Jesus is referring to governments.
He did not speak of governments, however He did demonstrate his opposition to forcing charity upon another.
 
He also told the man that it would be easier for a camel to get through a eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. Now im not saying that there shouldn;t be rich people. But i do believe Jesus comment was about people putting their wealth before God. And following God means helping others. Does it not?
If people wish to put wealth before God, that’s their choice. Helping others is important- but taking from others to do so is not Christain in the slightest.
 
Ok, but I know several people who will have problems as a direct result of nationalizing the healthcare system.

So, where does that leave us?

Why can’t you understand that you’re not only handing our medical care over to an organization that, by your own admission, is evil- but you are also choosing to hurt one group of people in order to have a chance at helping another group of people.
Lesser of 2 evils. Governement 1 st circle of Hell, insurance companies too evil for the 9th circle of Hell! Now do you get the picture?
 
Yes or no. Simple answer.
Just a yes or a no.
Maybe he doesn’t want to get involved in your pathetic little game.

Here’s a question for you: Dou you still beat your wife?

I will ONLY accept a yes or no answer!!!
 
Yeah, my friend was sick too, and I think the mighty government is capable of taking care of him. That’s why we sign this bill to screw up hardworking Americans and unborn babies.

People who oppose this bill are unmerciful and cruel. They would rather see people denied health care than try to help them. We have to work together to get this bill through as fast as possible! It won’t be in effect for a couple years, but hey, that’s irrelevant.

Let’s make sure we don’t be uncharitable. The Lord is surely guiding our government in this decision to help Americans. We wouldn’t want to go against the Lord, would we?!

Man, it’s fun talking like a Liberal! 😃
Like the man with the flat tire said " Spare me"!!! By the way I’m not totally a liberal. I’m mixed and pragmatic, and a conspircy theorist.
 
Maybe he doesn’t want to get involved in your pathetic little game.

Here’s a question for you: Dou you still beat your wife?

I will ONLY accept a yes or no answer!!!
For Catholics, whether one supports abortion is a simple question- I’m sorry you see that as a game.
 
Well let’s see-
As I recall, Jesus once asked a wealthy man to sell his goods and give the resulting money to the poor.
The wealthy man refused.
Jesus allowed him to leave

This would make me think that Jesus is directly opposed to forcing those with money to help others like, oh I dunno, taking the money of others to pay for health care.
I think the key here is that Jesus said to give the money to the poor- he didn’t say to give it to Caesar to pay bureaucrats to set up government programs.

It is so frustrating to see all these people who think christianity charity is about financing government programs.
 
He did not speak of governments, however He did demonstrate his opposition to forcing charity upon another.
Here is a passage where Jesus did speak of government:

"And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and of the Herodians; that they should catch him in his words. Who coming, say to him: Master, we know that thou art a true speaker and carest not for any man; for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar? Or shall we not give it?

Who knowing their wiliness, saith to them: Why tempt you me? Bring me a penny that I may see it. And they brought it him. And he saith to them: Whose is this image and inscription? They say to him: Caesar’s. And Jesus answering, said to them: Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him."

(Mark 12:13-17, Douay-Rheims Bible, emphasis mine)

This is specifically in reference to government and taxes.

The passage you are referring to (although you never provided a reference) is Matthew 19:16-26

"And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why askest thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thous wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. Honour thy father and thy mother: and Thou shalt love thy neighbor as theyself.

The young man saith to him: All these have I kept from my youth, what is yet wanting to me?

Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

And when the young man had heard this word he went away sad; for he had great possessions.

Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. And when they had heard this, the disciples wondered much, saying: Who then can be saved?

And Jesus beholding, said to them: With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

(Douay-Rheims Bible, emphasis mine)

The importance of this passage is that Jesus wants us to give all we can to the poor and to follow Him - also, we cannot be saved on our own, only God can save us. It has nothing to do with government. The only possible connection I can find what with what you said is that we have free will regarding this; it is up to us as to whether we are willing to do what must be done to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I don’t see anything about “opposition to forcing charity upon another.” God doesn’t force us to do anything - we have free will. But if one wishes to enter eternal life with God, shouldn’t that person do what Jesus has said to do?

As to your previous post about Jesus asking a wealthy man to sell his goods and give the resulting money to the poor - that is not true. What Jesus did was tell the rich man how to enter Heaven.
 
Here is a passage where Jesus did speak of government:

"And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and of the Herodians; that they should catch him in his words. Who coming, say to him: Master, we know that thou art a true speaker and carest not for any man; for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar? Or shall we not give it?

Who knowing their wiliness, saith to them: Why tempt you me? Bring me a penny that I may see it. And they brought it him. And he saith to them: Whose is this image and inscription? They say to him: Caesar’s. And Jesus answering, said to them: Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him."

(Mark 12:13-17, Douay-Rheims Bible, emphasis mine)

This is specifically in reference to government and taxes.
Ah, so it is morally acceptable to pay tax? And what of the morality of raising taxes on others to pay for a different group?
The passage you are referring to (although you never provided a reference) is Matthew 19:16-26
"And behold one came and said to him: Good master, what good shall I do that I may have life everlasting? Who said to him: Why askest thou me concerning good? One is good, God. But if thous wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
He said to him: Which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness. Honour thy father and thy mother: and Thou shalt love thy neighbor as theyself.
The young man saith to him: All these have I kept from my youth, what is yet wanting to me?
Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
And when the young man had heard this word he went away sad; for he had great possessions.
Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. And when they had heard this, the disciples wondered much, saying: Who then can be saved?
And Jesus beholding, said to them: With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
(Douay-Rheims Bible, emphasis mine)
The importance of this passage is that Jesus wants us to give all we can to the poor and to follow Him - also, we cannot be saved on our own, only God can save us. It has nothing to do with government. The only possible connection I can find what with what you said is that we have free will regarding this; it is up to us as to whether we are willing to do what must be done to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I don’t see anything about “opposition to forcing charity upon another.” God doesn’t force us to do anything - we have free will. But if one wishes to enter eternal life with God, shouldn’t that person do what Jesus has said to do?
As to your previous post about Jesus asking a wealthy man to sell his goods and give the resulting money to the poor - that is not true. What Jesus did was tell the rich man how to enter Heaven.
So even if we accept your conclusion (which we can for sake of argument)- you asked “what would Jesus do”? Implying that Jesus would support your side.

So we’re looking for an example where Christ states that we are to force charity on others.
 
Lesser of 2 evils. Governement 1 st circle of Hell, insurance companies too evil for the 9th circle of Hell! Now do you get the picture?
Well you said so yourself, big government does more damage. So-
“Lesser of 2 evils. insurance companies1 st circle of Hell, Government too evil for the 9th circle of Hell! Now do you get the picture?”
Seems more accurate
 
I think the key here is that Jesus said to give the money to the poor- he didn’t say to give it to Caesar to pay bureaucrats to set up government programs.

It is so frustrating to see all these people who think christianity charity is about financing government programs.
Well it is the most effective way of helping. As good as the work that the CHurch does. It can’t cover the poor anywhere as good as what the goverment could. Sometimes it seems that people here don’t care about the abortion issue with the new bill. But they are only using it as an excuse to oppose it.
 
Well it is the most effective way of helping. As good as the work that the CHurch does. It can’t cover the poor anywhere as good as what the goverment could. Sometimes it seems that people here don’t care about the abortion issue with the new bill. But they are only using it as an excuse to oppose it.
And if I want to help the poor, stealing from others and passing along the money might be the most effective for of help I can give- however, that doesn’t make it moral.
What if I get someone else to take the money? Same deal. What if I get some organization to do it? Same. Deal.
 
Well it is the most effective way of helping. As good as the work that the CHurch does. **It can’t cover the poor anywhere as good as what the goverment could. **Sometimes it seems that people here don’t care about the abortion issue with the new bill. But they are only using it as an excuse to oppose it.
You think that the government can pay for everyone’s health care? How will the government pay for it? They will pay for it with your money and mine. How much money can we earn?

Our government is already trillions of dollars in debt. For each trillion, that’s $30,000 per man, woman, and child. Out of our total population, less than half work, so for every working person, that’s $60,000.

The current proposed solutions will cause a massive increase in spending, despite what the smoke and mirror holders are saying. Every health initiative we have had has ended up costing many times over what was predicted when the law was debated.

We worry constantly about what our driving will do to the earth we leave our children and grandchildren. What will these debt loads do to them? The government is only “able” to pay for care better because it can borrow money ceaselessly, but when these voters and lawmakers are dead, the debts will still exist.
 
Ah, so it is morally acceptable to pay tax? And what of the morality of raising taxes on others to pay for a different group?
Read the words of Christ and make your own conclusion. I provided the passage because you made the assumption that Christ was speaking about government and “forced charity” with your passage. He wasn’t. I believe the passage I provided is telling us to pay our taxes. As the words come from Jesus I will assume that it is moral to pay taxes. As far as raising taxes on others to pay for a different group, I don’t see that addressed at all in the passage I provided.
So even if we accept your conclusion (which we can for sake of argument)- you asked “what would Jesus do”? Implying that Jesus would support your side.
Actually I don’t remember asking “what Jesus would do?” Could you provide the post number? I’ve posted in a number of threads but I don’t think I’ve posted that question in this thread. But it’s possible. Actually it sounds like a good idea. Shouldn’t we want to be as Christ-like as possible? And it’s not a matter of Jesus supporting “my side.” It’s a matter of us supporting “Jesus’s side.” I’m not asking Jesus to support my ideas. I’m saying I want to support Jesus’ ideas.
So we’re looking for an example where Christ states that we are to force charity on others.
Well, uh, actually I’m not looking for any such thing. You are the one who said that your passage implies that Christ showed opposition to forcing people to provide charity. So if you really believe Christ said that (I don’t) then I guess you need to find that passage. Good luck.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top