Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

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KQP said:
We have a free clinic in our area that offers everything…dental, mental, and all the medical. It’s staffed by mostly retired physicians and nurses. I was thinking of this for Pathia, if she is real. Don’t know about anyone else, but I’m starting to doubt her story a little. But guess there’s no way to be sure.
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First of all, why should you doubt Parthia?
Secondly, that’s irrelevant. If Parthia is misleading us (which I have no reason to believe) than her case is certainly duplicated by someone somewhere who is real. There is a problem with healthcare for certain groups of people. But our Congress is overstepping their bounds in the measures they are trying to take to revamp the system and using pariahs to make their cause seem legit and admirable.
 
I really do not consider myself a liberal. But after hearing all the arguments concerning healthcare, I have to agree with those advocating a universal system for the USA. About 30% of my premiums go to pay the insurance company directly. Medicare spends about 3% of what it takes in on admin costs. If we had medicare for all, it would free up hundreds of millions per year for direct care. I don’t see how any fiscal conservative can be against a single payer system. On a compassionate level, why should anybody have to fear whether or not they will face financial ruin due to an illness?. Or face rejection for a “pre-existing condition” and many other reasons for - profit companies deny coverage.
As Catholics, isnt’t it the Lords will that we care for each other?
 
KQP said:
Doctors have to pay for tons more education than the fire depts., police, etc. If they need to go into “social services” they wont be able to pay back their education loans. So the next generation would have very few doctors because who would sign up to be one? Or should the govt (taxpayers) pick up the tab for their education too?

We have a free clinic in our area that offers everything…dental, mental, and all the medical. It’s staffed by mostly retired physicians and nurses. I was thinking of this for Pathia, if she is real. Don’t know about anyone else, but I’m starting to doubt her story a little. But guess there’s no way to be sure.
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Thats why post secondary education should be free as well as required. Then we wouldn’t have this problem.
 
doer1960 said:
I really do not consider myself a liberal. But after hearing all the arguments concerning healthcare, I have to agree with those advocating a universal system for the USA. About 30% of my premiums go to pay the insurance company directly. Medicare spends about 3% of what it takes in on admin costs. If we had medicare for all, it would free up hundreds of millions per year for direct care. I don’t see how any fiscal conservative can be against a single payer system.
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Please tell me where you get this statistic from. I don’t know of a single government agency that runs anywhere close to that efficiency and I’d be willing to bet money against that statistic.

For instance, only 24% of the money that goes to the food stamp program actually goes to food stamps. That’s a 76% inefficiency! I’ll admit that this statistic is 20 years old, but if I had to guess, the system hasn’t gotten any more efficient. That’s against the rules of government bureaucracy! 😉
 
aspawloski4th said:
Thats why post secondary education should be free as well as required. Then we wouldn’t have this problem.
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America has the best university system because the system gets all the money it needs on its own- there’s no way our government can afford to pay the 10’s of thousands of dollars per student that universities currently receive.
 
aspawloski4th said:
You do with K through 12, Finish the job!
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The public education system K-12 is SOOO good that many people send their kids to private schools and would love a voucher system.

For those who would like to have govt run education, healthcare, etc., I think it’s important to look back and remember why so many people came here from different countries. They left because of too much govt control and too many taxes, and felt strongly enough that they wanted to get away from this type of life to even leave their homeland. The US has been moving in this direction for a long time.

Since so many other countries offer this all inclusive govt run lifestyle, I always wonder why all those who don’t like free enterprise, etc., don’t just move to a country where they like the way it is set up. Is that because it’s still better here because it still hasn’t become completely govt controlled, even tho we are on our way? When, and if, it does become a truly socialist lifestyle, guess who will be the first to complain.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Thats why post secondary education should be free as well as required. Then we wouldn’t have this problem.
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I need a new car and windows on my house too. Where’s the program to pay for that? I haven’t had a vacation in a few years. Shouldn’t the govt supply this for my mental health?
 
doer1960 said:
I really do not consider myself a liberal. But after hearing all the arguments concerning healthcare, I have to agree with those advocating a universal system for the USA. About 30% of my premiums go to pay the insurance company directly. Medicare spends about 3% of what it takes in on admin costs. If we had medicare for all, it would free up hundreds of millions per year for direct care. I don’t see how any fiscal conservative can be against a single payer system. On a compassionate level, why should anybody have to fear whether or not they will face financial ruin due to an illness?. Or face rejection for a “pre-existing condition” and many other reasons for - profit companies deny coverage.
As Catholics, isnt’t it the Lords will that we care for each other?
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Yes, as Catholics, we should take care of each other. And to do it the most effective way, we should follow Jesus’ example. **Please anyone show me, where in the Bible does it show Jesus asking the govt. to take care of the poor. ** He seems to avoid the govt, not approach them for help. I believe he wants us to take care of the poor on a more personal level, not thru govt programs because…
  1. Personal charities and faith based programs are much more effective in reaching more people who need help. Step 13 in Colo. is a great example, if they are still there. I moved from there 11 years ago. They would not even take govt money because they would be so less effective by having to follow govt guidelines. I remember some figures about 3% effective with govt funding, 33% effective without.
  2. More money is donated and volunteering is higher when there isn’t a govt program. With a govt program, people assume the govt will take care of the more needy so they don’t give as much if at all. Plus taxes are higher to cover these less effective programs, so there is less money to donate.
  3. Last but not least, being more directly involved allows us to receive so many more graces, and the importance of actually being involved instead of expecting someone else to do it.
 
Code: 
  			Originally Posted by **NotWorthy** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6208837#post6208837) 				
  		*Nothings free, Apawloski. You're just asking me to pay for your education.*
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aspawloski4th said:
You do with K through 12, Finish the job!
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Sorry, 13 years of public-funded liberal indoctrination is enough. You’re on your own.
 
KQP said:
Yes, as Catholics, we should take care of each other. And to do it the most effective way, we should follow Jesus’ example. **Please anyone show me, where in the Bible does it show Jesus asking the govt. to take care of the poor. ** He seems to avoid the govt, not approach them for help. I believe he wants us to take care of the poor on a more personal level, not thru govt programs because…
  1. Personal charities and faith based programs are much more effective in reaching more people who need help. Step 13 in Colo. is a great example, if they are still there. I moved from there 11 years ago. They would not even take govt money because they would be so less effective by having to follow govt guidelines. I remember some figures about 3% effective with govt funding, 33% effective without.
  2. More money is donated and volunteering is higher when there isn’t a govt program. With a govt program, people assume the govt will take care of the more needy so they don’t give as much if at all. Plus taxes are higher to cover these less effective programs, so there is less money to donate.
  3. Last but not least, being more directly involved allows us to receive so many more graces, and the importance of actually being involved instead of expecting someone else to do it.
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Hi KQP, Thank you for your response. I agree that faith based charities and programs are wonderful ways to help those in need. But arent they there to help those that have exhausted all other means? My point was that people should not be reduced to poverty because of illness. We are the only industrialized nation without healhcare for all. all the others seem to be doing alright. The stats seem to reflect this(life expectancy,infant mortality)… Our ranking is mediocre at best. Though Jesus never said that the govt. should take care of those in need, I would think that he would want it too. Is not the govt made up by us, the people? The Lord may have or not have avoided the govt. But he wasn’t anti-govt(Romans 13).
 
doer1960 said:
My point was that people should not be reduced to poverty because of illness. We are the only industrialized nation without healhcare for all. all the others seem to be doing alright. The stats seem to reflect this(life expectancy,infant mortality)… Our ranking is mediocre at best. .
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As stated in this thread and other threads at CAF, in regards to this:
  1. The infant mortality rate is calculated differently in the US.
  2. The other Western nations do not have a population the size nor the diversity of the US
  3. The average lifespan used for the WHO studies do not take into consideration lifestyle differences, accidental deaths (i.e. homicide) and so on.
  4. Most other industrialised countries are taxed through the teeth.
  5. Other industrialized nations don’t have 10-20 million illegal aliens
  6. the 47 million people who may not have insurance can easily be debunked
 
doer1960 said:
Hi KQP, Thank you for your response. I agree that faith based charities and programs are wonderful ways to help those in need. But arent they there to help those that have exhausted all other means? My point was that people should not be reduced to poverty because of illness. We are the only industrialized nation without healhcare for all. all the others seem to be doing alright. The stats seem to reflect this(life expectancy,infant mortality)… Our ranking is mediocre at best. Though Jesus never said that the govt. should take care of those in need, I would think that he would want it too. Is not the govt made up by us, the people? The Lord may have or not have avoided the govt. But he wasn’t anti-govt(Romans 13).
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Was wondering where you get your info and the statistics. I think you were the one who said Medicare was so effective and little went to administration - which is actually the opposite. I also thought we had the highest rated healthcare available. The other countries with socialized medicine are not doing well. Canada has 57% more deaths from cancer than the US because of the wait they have to get to a doctor as well as less advanced procedures. This is going to force me (and whoever else wants to) to actually research facts and figures. I’ll have to find some more “spare time”.

I’m sure Jesus did want the govt to take care of the needy, but he knew it was corrupt even back then. I don’t want to suggest what I think he would have wanted, but would go by how it was written. I think it’s very interesting that he never sent anyone sick or hungry somewhere else to be taken care of. Certainly is something to think about.
 
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NotWorthy:
Sorry, 13 years of public-funded liberal indoctrination is enough. You’re on your own.
Better a liberal first world nation than a conservative thirdworld nation. Smell the coffee depending too much on blue collar jobs is part of what got us into this economic mess.
 
In many of those “admired” foreign socialist countries, when you graduate from high school or thereabouts you take an exam. And the results of that exam are your fate forever.

You may get to attend a college or a university or an engineering school or a tech school. Or nothing.

You are predetermined for the rest of your life.

In the United States, you can return to school at any age. And make up for earlier life shortcomings in your education. Or just to change your career path. There are private schools, community colleges, correspondence schools, “distance learning”. And small private academies where you can pay by the course or by the whole program. Residence or commute. All highly competitive.

The same thing applies to health care. You can pick your own doctor … a clinic doctor, a Park Avenue specialist, a Rodeo Drive specialist, call someone from the phone book, pick a doctor from your insurance company’s list, do-it-yourself, manage your own case, use nutritional supplements, hire a body piercer, etc.

Under national health care, current proposals call for a high tax on certain medical care, but not on others. That is one way to RATION healthcare. Tax only certain people on THEIR medical care and not others. So the folks who are taxed, will not be able to get the same level of health care as those who are not taxed.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Better a liberal first world nation than a conservative thirdworld nation. Smell the coffee depending too much on blue collar jobs is part of what got us into this economic mess.
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No, that is way to simple.
  1. Foreign dependence on oil, when we have more oil in the ground (that we could acquire for 16 stinkin’ dollars a barrel, for goodness sake) than any of the other countries!!! That’s one problem.
  2. Hmmm… telling the bankers that we are going to tax the heck out of them. That can’t be good.
  3. Let’s see, forcing small business to reduce their labor force so that they don’t have to face expensive public healthcare plans.
  4. Trying to convince the world that global warming is going to kill us and forcing these “green plans” down our throats at the expense of business. That was a great scheme, there. Those clowns almost got away with it.
  5. Cap and Trade? What a joke! Tax and spread the wealth is more like it.
I could go on and on, but there is a 5000 character limit in my posts, but you should get the gist.

If the government wants to get us out of this mess, than they should get the H*LL out of the way!
 
NotWorthy said:
No, that is way to simple.
  1. Foreign dependence on oil, when we have more oil in the ground (that we could acquire for 16 stinkin’ dollars a barrel, for goodness sake) than any of the other countries!!! That’s one problem.
  2. Hmmm… telling the bankers that we are going to tax the heck out of them. That can’t be good.
  3. Let’s see, forcing small business to reduce their labor force so that they don’t have to face expensive public healthcare plans.
  4. Trying to convince the world that global warming is going to kill us and forcing these “green plans” down our throats at the expense of business. That was a great scheme, there. Those clowns almost got away with it.
  5. Cap and Trade? What a joke! Tax and spread the wealth is more like it.
I could go on and on, but there is a 5000 character limit in my posts, but you should get the gist.

If the government wants to get us out of this mess, than they should get the H*LL out of the way!
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I was refering to something more cultural than political. A nation of people with no higher than high school education is a one way ticket to being a third world nation.
 
aspawloski4th said:
I was refering to something more cultural than political. A nation of people with no higher than high school education is a one way ticket to being a third world nation.
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Oh really? How in the world do you get that we are a nation of people with no higher than a high school education?

We’ve got more people in higher education than we ever have before.
 
NotWorthy said:
Oh really? How in the world do you get that we are a nation of people with no higher than a high school education?

We’ve got more people in higher education than we ever have before.
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But less than we need. We have to have people to immigrate to fill jobs where college degrees are needed because we there are not enough of our own with the degrees.
 
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