Why Am I for nationa healthcare?

[Monte_RCMS]

Oh really? How in the world do you get that we are a nation of people with no higher than a high school education?

We’ve got more people in higher education than we ever have before.

The problem is that our education system has been systematically dumbed down and watered down, so that when the students graduate, they know less and less about less and less.

 

[CPA2]

The problem is that our education system has been systematically dumbed down and watered down, so that when the students graduate, they know less and less about less and less.

You are correct! There is a tremendous amount of grade inflation in today’s colleges. SAT scores have continued to decline since prayer was taken out of “public” schools in 1963. Government schools are a failure.

 

[NotWorthy]

But less than we need. We have to have people to immigrate to fill jobs where college degrees are needed because we there are not enough of our own with the degrees.

Well, wait a minute. We don’t HAVE to have people immigrate to fill jobs. Those people CHOOSE to immigrate to fill jobs, even though, by your standards, our healthcare system sucks.

That doesn’t make any sense, eh?

 

[NotWorthy]

The problem is that our education system has been systematically dumbed down and watered down, so that when the students graduate, they know less and less about less and less.

Well yes, but you are talking about apples and oranges.

Aspa said that we are a nation without college degrees. I’m showing that there are more AMERICANS in college and with college degrees than ever before. Aspa cannot have it both ways.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Well yes, but you are talking about apples and oranges.

Aspa said that we are a nation without college degrees. I’m showing that there are more AMERICANS in college and with college degrees than ever before. Aspa cannot have it both ways.

But the need for people with degrees is higher than ever also! If you think we can succede as a nation of truck drivers and factory workers like the old days, you have got to get out more. Those days are long gone, as they should be.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Well, wait a minute. We don’t HAVE to have people immigrate to fill jobs. Those people CHOOSE to immigrate to fill jobs, even though, by your standards, our healthcare system sucks.

That doesn’t make any sense, eh?

Those people are taking the high pay high benefit jobs where they can afford our healthcare.

 

[KQP]

Better a liberal first world nation than a conservative thirdworld nation. Smell the coffee depending too much on blue collar jobs is part of what got us into this economic mess.

Please list the liberal first world nations and the conservative third world nations. I recently read that some of the European countries are beginning to vote more conservatively because people are fed up with the liberal agenda and the lifestyle it imposes on its citizens. Maybe it’s liberal first world for the politicians - but not for the people.

 

[KQP]

No, that is way to simple.

1. Foreign dependence on oil, when we have more oil in the ground (that we could acquire for 16 stinkin’ dollars a barrel, for goodness sake) than any of the other countries!!! That’s one problem.
2. Hmmm… telling the bankers that we are going to tax the heck out of them. That can’t be good.
3. Let’s see, forcing small business to reduce their labor force so that they don’t have to face expensive public healthcare plans.
4. Trying to convince the world that global warming is going to kill us and forcing these “green plans” down our throats at the expense of business. That was a great scheme, there. Those clowns almost got away with it.
5. Cap and Trade? What a joke! Tax and spread the wealth is more like it.

I could go on and on, but there is a 5000 character limit in my posts, but you should get the gist.

If the government wants to get us out of this mess, than they should get the H*LL out of the way!

 

[NotWorthy]

Those people are taking the high pay high benefit jobs where they can afford our healthcare.

So they leave their Liberal 1st world countries to come to a conservative third world nation so that they can get great healthcare?

Aspa, you’re beginning to make less and less sense.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Well yes, but you are talking about apples and oranges.

Aspa said that we are a nation without college degrees. I’m showing that there are more AMERICANS in college and with college degrees than ever before. Aspa cannot have it both ways.

More word spinning.

People can have college degrees. One dollar for a piece of paper. Remember that famous scene in the Wizard of Oz? Where he hands out a college degree?

People can also have knowledge. For that, however, a great deal of reading and studying and writing and listening to lectures and getting some experience, as in chem lab, etc, and summer jobs/internships is needed.

Just because somebody knows computer games doesn’t mean they know computers.

People need to be able to write paragraphs without using “like ya know” and they need hard sciences and math, as much as is available.

The continuing problem is that the educational system is being continually watered down. Hard subjects are avoided. If a teacher grades hard, he can lose his / her job. I have a friend who WAS a teacher, until one of the students tripped her and she fell and was so severely injured that she could not resume teaching.

Remember the litany of complaints from school principals of 50 years ago? Spitballs and passing notes. Versus today: drugs, knives, assaults?

 

[NotWorthy]

More word spinning.

People can have college degrees. One dollar for a piece of paper. Remember that famous scene in the Wizard of Oz? Where he hands out a college degree?

People can also have knowledge. For that, however, a great deal of reading and studying and writing and listening to lectures and getting some experience, as in chem lab, etc, and summer jobs/internships is needed.

Just because somebody knows computer games doesn’t mean they know computers.

People need to be able to write paragraphs without using “like ya know” and they need hard sciences and math, as much as is available.

The continuing problem is that the educational system is being continually watered down. Hard subjects are avoided. If a teacher grades hard, he can lose his / her job. I have a friend who WAS a teacher, until one of the students tripped her and she fell and was so severely injured that she could not resume teaching.

Remember the litany of complaints from school principals of 50 years ago? Spitballs and passing notes. Versus today: drugs, knives, assaults?

I agree with your analysis on our public school system. It sucks, but hey, everything else that the government gets their hands in does, so at least they are consistent. I especially loved the recent scenario with the “no child left behind” bill. President Bush lets our recently departed Ted Kennedy write the bill. Within 30 days of the law’s enactment, Ted Kennedy was leading the opposition against “no child left behind”. As I said, the best thing our government can do is to get the H*LL out of the way.

Aspa and my discussion are centered around whether we have college degreed people or not. Aspa claims there are hardly any, while I’m simply pointing out there are so many more than ever, that its not even close.

 

[doer1960]

I posted earlier that medicare spends about 3% of thier budget on administrative costs, it’s actually 3.6 percent as compared to 31% private insurers spend. If anybody wants to do the research, try pnhp.org (physicians for a nat’l health plan) or republicansforsinglepayer.org. Each site has many links.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I posted earlier that medicare spends about 3% of thier budget on administrative costs, it’s actually 3.6 percent as compared to 31% private insurers spend. If anybody wants to do the research, try pnhp.org (physicians for a nat’l health plan) or republicansforsinglepayer.org. Each site has many links.

Sorry, I read the two sites and they are using bogus numbers!

For example, from pnhp.org:

“The U.S. spends twice as much as other industrialized nations on health care, $8,160 per capita. Yet our system performs poorly in comparison and still leaves 46.3 million without health coverage and millions more inadequately covered.”

We already KNOW that the 46.3 million without health coverage is a totally false number. Absolutely false. Bogus. The 46 million figure has been debunked here on CAF time after time after time. So, pnhp.org is totally discredited. Zero credibility.

Medicare is pure 100% administration. They deliver NO healthcare or medical anything.

Further as “insurance”, Medicare doesn’t provide any; all they do is beat the health care providers over the head with skimpy reimbursements. Pure administration. We also know that Medicare is bankrupt. So the numbers are just totally phoney baloney.

Further on republicansforsinglepayer.org they throw all kinds of numbers around, with no backup. And those numbers conflict with the 31% overhead number you quoted.

It’s all made up stuff.

Faked data to attempt to make a case.

 

[doer1960]

Sorry, I read the two sites and they are using bogus numbers!

For example, from pnhp.org:

“The U.S. spends twice as much as other industrialized nations on health care, $8,160 per capita. Yet our system performs poorly in comparison and still leaves 46.3 million without health coverage and millions more inadequately covered.”

We already KNOW that the 46.3 million without health coverage is a totally false number. Absolutely false. Bogus. The 46 million figure has been debunked here on CAF time after time after time. So, pnhp.org is totally discredited. Zero credibility.

Medicare is pure 100% administration. They deliver NO healthcare or medical anything.

Further as “insurance”, Medicare doesn’t provide any; all they do is beat the health care providers over the head with skimpy reimbursements. Pure administration. We also know that Medicare is bankrupt. So the numbers are just totally phoney baloney.

Further on republicansforsinglepayer.org they throw all kinds of numbers around, with no backup. And those numbers conflict with the 31% overhead number you quoted.

It’s all made up stuff.

Faked data to attempt to make a case./QUOT
What is the real data? It"s possible every report you see from both ends of the argument is bogus. The healthcare system we have is broken and corrupt. Too many people are suffering because of it. Thats my opinion. Obviously not everyone agrees with me.Thats the beauty of democracy. We can agree to disagree.

 

[rdscheirer]

It is interesting that “administrative” costs are brought up. Sure I can agree with the percentage on Medicare’s end but what about the “administrative” costs on my end as a “provider”- I’m no longer a Surgeon or Physician but a "Provider"so I to have to have a highly trained (in coding)- cause its not what you do for the patient but the “code” you use to try to get paid for your effort.

Hooray I just got paid today for a surgery I performed on Halloween day.

Why hospital care is so “expensive” is that when you are in your bed in the hospital you are paying for 4 to 6 employees per bed.

If you want 1960’s costs for hospital care then expect to get 1960’s level care.

Bob

 

[NotWorthy]

It is interesting that “administrative” costs are brought up. Sure I can agree with the percentage on Medicare’s end but what about the “administrative” costs on my end as a “provider”- I’m no longer a Surgeon or Physician but a "Provider"so I to have to have a highly trained (in coding)- cause its not what you do for the patient but the “code” you use to try to get paid for your effort.

Hooray I just got paid today for a surgery I performed on Halloween day.

Why hospital care is so “expensive” is that when you are in your bed in the hospital you are paying for 4 to 6 employees per bed.

If you want 1960’s costs for hospital care then expect to get 1960’s level care.

Bob

That’s what I here from every medical billing group. Medicare is the worst to get a payment from.

 

[KQP]

That’s what I here from every medical billing group. Medicare is the worst to get a payment from.

Mayo Clinic in Arizona recently dropped Medicare patients (unless they want to pay cash) because they lost $840 million from that location alone. This is how our govt health care plan works now. Can’t imagine why we don’t want them to take over everything.

 

[adelore]

I’m wishy/washy on all the healthcare. For starters let me say that I like a lot of people in my area and around the nation who have lost their jobs, who don’t have Health Care Ins…let alone dental or eyecare. Simply can’t afford “Cobra” on the unemployment checks.

In todays world if you don’t have minor children you cant get medicade. There are millions of people in our nation who don’t have any Health Ins. All we need to do is look at the unemployment.

Then we take into consideration people who have jobs with no benifits. Again no health care.

How about the thousands of Owner Opp Truck Drivers and their families? Think they make enough money to pay for insurance…nope they don’t. With the cost of fuel, truck payment, trailer payment, not to mention the Truck ins. alone is about 580 a month…(and that’s cheap) a blown tire is about 700 or more. believe me, I know first hand Truckers can’t affored Health Ins, because I am one. ** 90% of **our Countires Trucking is done by Owner Opps, like myself, so if we add all these people up, truely the numbers are in the millions without Healthcare.

Am I for the National Healthcare plan as it stands? Nope not if it pays for aborations. Do I think we need some kind of change, something that is going to give Health care to Everyone? Yep without a doubt.

Let’s look at it like this, say I go to the Hospital and have a emergency heart surgery. I have no ins. and there’s no way I’ll ever be able to pay that hospital, drs, ect. That is money lost. So who’s going to pay for it? Anyone with Ins is that is who. Your Ins. policys are going to go up to cover for the $$ loss. because the hospitals, drs ect are going to charge more to people who do have ins. It’s just that simple to figure out, (not only that but I’ve worked in Ins. some and guess what this is just how it is.)

So do I think we need some kind of Health Ins that all people can have? Yep. Do I have the answers? Nope.

At this point in my life would I take some kind of Health Ins, even from the Gov? Yep

 

[tjm190]

I was refering to something more cultural than political. A nation of people with no higher than high school education is a one way ticket to being a third world nation.

Well since we have the greatest system of universities in the world, to the extent where it’s not uncommon for people from countries with free higher education to come here anyway, it looks like we’ll be fine.

 

[NotWorthy]

Well since we have the greatest system of universities in the world, to the extent where it’s not uncommon for people from countries with free higher education to come here anyway, it looks like we’ll be fine.

There is a big 900 pound gorilla in the corner, regarding our University system.

The cost of a college degree is rising as fast as the cost of healthcare. Does our government or media mention this? NO. The simple reason is that the universities are some of the hotbeds of liberalism and the democrats protect their own.

This parallels the reasoning behind the lack of Torte Reform in the Healthcare Bill, which only shows me that the Democrats are not interested in fixing the system at all, just controlling it.