Why Anti-semetism?

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but Hilter hates arabs as well…he ranked them just one degree before dogs…he believed in the Arian race superiority.
 
Valke2 said:
?

If racism was the basis for their worldview, why did the Nazi’s focus all their hatred on the Jews, the the exculsion of all other races? (Including the Gypsies, the mass murder of whom was incidental to the Nazi’s worldview and not the objects of genocide).

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The Nazi’s did not focus all of their hatred just on Jews…they hated and killed Gypsises, mentally ill, Polish & Russians, JW’s and homosexuals also where targets of extermination for the Nazi’s.
 
Valke2 said:
NAZI ANTI-SEMETISM

THe popular thinking is that the Nazi’s anti-semetism was due to racism. This is not the case. They were racists, yes. But the Nazi anti-semetism did not grow out of racism. Two questions come to mind when the argument that Nazi racism was the cause of anti-semetism:

Why did the Nazi’s lable the Jews a race? Why was the race label needed in order to “justify” anti-semetism?

If racism was the basis for their worldview, why did the Nazi’s focus all their hatred on the Jews, the the exculsion of all other races? (Including the Gypsies, the mass murder of whom was incidental to the Nazi’s worldview and not the objects of genocide).

It was not because of racism that the Nazis hated the Jews. Rather, it was their hatred of the Jews that caused the Nazis to use racist arguments. It was the hatred of the jewish character. Of what we represented. Not what type of “race” we were.

More later.
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The Nazis blamed the Jews for Germany’s defeat in World War I, for its economic problems and for the spread of Communist parties throughout Europe.
SOURCE
 
Karin said:
The Nazi’s did not focus all of their hatred just on Jews…they hated and killed Gypsises, mentally ill, Polish & Russians, JW’s and homosexuals also where targets of extermination for the Nazi’s.
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Exactly, Nazi’s did terrible things to the Jews, but Jews weren’t the only ones.
 
Wow. Good question for discussion and some truly disturbing replies. As usual I don’t have time to fully participate so I’, just going to leave a “drive-by” comment or two.
  1. I have read a couple essays which resonate with my own perception that there is an impulse in fallen humanity which hates morality and tends to lash out at anyone defining themselves by adherence to a moral code. This principle is eveident in much of the hatred of Jews throughout history.
  2. Could we agree to spell the word thusly: *anti-semitism *?
Forgive me; I am in a mood to pick nits.

JSA
 
Salaam Exoflare;
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exoflare:
How about the one I just mentioned? You have just judged the teachings of Judaism according to the actions of some of its adherents.
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Exoflare;
I did not judge the teachings of Judaism, I reacted to a specific statement made by the Authors quoted by our Friend Valke2, and which was: “Before this, everyone worshiped their own gods but acknowledged the gods of other nations. Not the Jews. “Other gods” were nonsense.” I showed him that at one time at least the statement he quoted was false. I showed (from the OT), that It happened, on a grand scale, that the Children of Israel (the Jews) worshiped other gods. That’s all I wanted to show. In another hand, God kept sending them Prophets to lead back to the right path. The tremendous number of prophets they received testifies that they needed to be reminded periodically.
Would you be okay with people judging Islam this way?
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Exoflare;
Not by you, but it is already happening; it does not please me personally, but what can I do? I know you will not do it out of charity and respect for me.

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
Historically Jews have tended to be rather clannish. In the more extreme cases they have viewed Gentiles as unclean and somehow “less than” and have sought to distance themselves from the Gentiles.

Also, during the middle ages, when loaning money at interest was illegal for Christians no such restraint existed for Jews except when it came to loaning to one another.

These two things set them apart on the one hand and on the other created a situation where resentments developed.

I have no doubt that in some cases pogroms were instigated by Christian princes who just didn’t want to pay back a debt.

The charge of blood-libel (that Jews are responsible for the murder of Christ) is and has always been a gloss, a justification used by Christians and churchmen to justify violence against them.
 
Joseph,

I’ve been interested in the conversation so far, and I have one question. In their teachings, writings, and traditions, Jews and Christians acknowledge their weakness and sinfulness before almighty God and their need for repentence and returning to Hiim. Does Islam have any such acknowledgement of sin and an opportunity to return to God and receive His forgiveness, mercy, and love?

Ruth
 
Salaam Ruth;
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Ruthmary:
Joseph,
I’ve been interested in the conversation so far, and I have one question. In their teachings, writings, and traditions, Jews and Christians their weakness and sinfulness before almighty God and their need for repentence and returning to Hiim. Does Islam have any such acknowledgement of sin and an opportunity to return to God and receive His forgiveness, mercy, and love?
Ruth
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Ruth;
Yes, we do acknowledge our weakness and sinfulness before almighty God and our need for repentence and returning to Him. Allah (SWT) invited us not to despair if we are full of sins:

[Almighty Allah’s Limitless Mercy]
“O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind.
O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you.
O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great at it”

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
Karin said:
The Nazi’s did not focus all of their hatred just on Jews…they hated and killed Gypsises, mentally ill, Polish & Russians, JW’s and homosexuals also where targets of extermination for the Nazi’s.
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Jews were the only “race” marked for genocide. Millions of others were killed but not as a program of genocide.
 
Joseph_Alison said:
Salaam Ruth;

Ruth;
Yes, we do acknowledge our weakness and sinfulness before almighty God and our need for repentence and returning to Him. Allah (SWT) invited us not to despair if we are full of sins:

[Almighty Allah’s Limitless Mercy]
“O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind.
O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you.
O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great at it”

Salaam.
Joseph.
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Thank you.
 
Joseph_Alison said:
Salaam Valke2;

Yes, that’s true you did not personnaly argue about that, but those you quoted said the following:
“Before this, everyone worshiped their own gods but acknowledged the gods of other nations. Not the Jews. “Other gods” were nonsense.”

I brought you some verses from the OT showing that to the Jews the “other gods” we not nonsense: “And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal" [2KINGS 17:16] Calf worship and Baal worship were pagan worships.
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Another possibility is that the writer is misdescribing, for polemical purposes, what they did - what looks like calf-worship is quite likely to have been a frm of JHWH-worship, with the calves as the supporters of JHWH; as His especial animals (compare the oxen who carry the Ark of the Covenant in 2 Sam. 6; & the oxen in 1 Kings who support the bronze “sea” in the Temple)​

This possibility is supported by the fact that the Baal of the OT-Tanakh is a Syrian form of the god Hadad, who was worshipped in Mesopotamia. In both Mesopotamia & Syria, he is closely associated with the bull; & several Psalms use Baal-imagery to describe JHWH; Baal & JHWH were similar is some important respects - which would make confusion, or even fusion, far from difficult.

The “grove” is almost certainly a disguised reference to the goddess Asherah.

So in all likelihood, Jeroboam, in setting up the two bulls, had no intention of committing idolatry - he probably intended to divert attention from the Temple (in the kingdom of Judah) by using the same imagery as was used in the Temple; as is suggested by the OT itself.

Naturally, this kind of thing would be abhorrent to someone who did not regard the kingdom of Israel under Jeroboam as legitimate. And the religion could not be separated from the politics - this is a distinction we make but that men of that period & place did not. ##
One of the commandments is to worship God and God alone, the Jews “left all the commandments of the LORD their God” and instead “worshipped all the host of heaven” meaning other gods.
The statement made by the authors you quoted is incorrect, the Jews at time recognized other gods and even worshiped them.

Salaam.
Joseph.
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eleonardo said:
Exactly, Nazi’s did terrible things to the Jews, but Jews weren’t the only ones.
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yup…who is saying otherwise? Is someone trying to rewrite history and say that only Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazi’s?
 
Valke2 said:
Jews were the only “race” marked for genocide. Millions of others were killed but not as a program of genocide.
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" Moreover the Nazi violence against other groups, such as Poles, was also considered genocidal by the Nuremburg Tribunal even though there was never any intention of mass extermination" SOURCE
 
Karin said:
hmm…that is rather long…care to tell me what I am supposed to get out of this?
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Originally Posted by Karin
" Moreover the Nazi violence against other groups, such as Poles, was also considered genocidal by the Nuremburg Tribunal

So you have never read the trial documents your self:confused:
 
Most nations and people have undergone horrendous persecution Christians included, the Jews just have the most recent and extreme examples and have their plight well documented. Don’t believe me ask the Amelekites, Palestinians, or African Americans, even the Irish under the Saxons, Vikings, and British.

I mean if you think a Jew had it bad in Europe during the 1750’s think of how blacks had it in America. Not only could they not own land, they were owned by other people like the Israelites thousands of years before.
 
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