Why Anti-semetism?

[Karin]

Originally Posted by Karin
" Moreover the Nazi violence against other groups, such as Poles, was also considered genocidal by the Nuremburg Tribunal

So you have never read the trial documents your self

Nope is it required reading? I did include the SOURCE for my quote in my post…did you miss it?

 

[Saint_Michael]

Hi. But they were persecuted before the death of Jesus. ANd there have been long stretches of our history where it cannot be said that we had power and wealth.

Not for nothing but maybe walking into the promised land and puting all the inhabitants to the sword except virgin women had something to do about it? I mean if you take out the Judeo/Christian thought of it, and think in the terms of a Canannite or Moab during the Jewish conquest of these ares, it’s not that hard to understand ancient anti-semitism.

 

[Saint_Michael]

psssssttt!

The Vatican didn;t recognize the State of Israel until 1993.

That doesn’t make the Vatican anti-semetic, possibly anti-zionist, but there’s a difference.

 

[Karin]

That doesn’t make the Vatican anti-semetic, possibly anti-zionist, but there’s a difference.

I totally agree with that description…but many people say that if you are against or disagree with Israel than you are anti-semitic

 

[Steadfast]

That doesn’t make the Vatican anti-semetic, possibly anti-zionist, but there’s a difference.

Quite right.

I may still be able to clean up that gasoline…

 

[dosdog]

Quite right.

I may still be able to clean up that gasoline…

1938 December 16 A remarkable editorial in The New York Daily News says that the Bill of Rights means only “that our government shall not officially discriminate against any religion. It does not mean that Americans are forbidden to dislike other Americans or religions or any other group. Plenty of people just now are exercising their right to dislike the Jews.”
humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/timebase/1938tbse.htm

 

[eleonardo]

Jews were the only “race” marked for genocide. Millions of others were killed but not as a program of genocide.

This is merely a classification
Besides, how about Gypsies, Slavics, Blacks?
Basically anyone that was not of the superior Aryan race.

yup…who is saying otherwise? Is someone trying to rewrite history and say that only Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazi’s?

Not sure if anyone is saying otherwise, just wanted to emphasize that Jews weren’t the only ones suffering these atrocities.

Pax vobiscum.

 

[JesuXPIPassio]

The Vatican didn;t recognize the State of Israel until 1993.

Be that as it may, remember that Vatican diplomacy is a weird thing, unlike the diplomatics of other countries. As of yet, the Holy See doesn’t even have an ambassador to the biggest country in the world.

Heck, the Vatican didn’t exchange ambassadors with the US until the Reagan administration!

It took decades for the Holy See to recognise Italy – even though the Pope was confined to smack dab in the centre of the Italian capitol.

There are other factors in Vatican diplomacy. Just one of the many factors, we’d put an ambassador in a nation if there’s a Catholic population in there. I don’t know for sure, but I doubt the state of Israel had a significant Catholic population for the forty-plus years that the Vatican hadn’t recognised it. One of the main tasks of Vatican Ambassadors is to help out with the appointment of Bishops. If there aren’t Catholics in a place, there won’t be Bishops. If there are no Bishops, it would be silly to have an Ambassador to help choose Bishops who don’t exist.

Also, in 1993 when recognition was formally established, John Paul II – by no means an anti-semite – was Pope. He had been Pope since 1978. If it really were on Papal whim, how come fifteen years went by until the Pope did it? This was the same Pope who was the first in almost two thousand years to set foot in a synagogue. This was the same Pope who had Jewish friends. Recognition for his love for the Jews go wide and far. In a Papal concert, the Pope got a Jewish conductor; later John Paul gave him a Papal knighthood and gave a Menorah on the occassion of the conductor’s kid’s bar mitzvah. I know this story since that Jewish guy was on Larry King when the Holy Father passed away.

So why the fifteen year wait to recognise the state of Israel? It’s because it isn’t just about whether or not the guy in white likes the Jews.

Also, John Paul wasn’t the first pro-Jew pope. His immediate predecessors are known to love the Jewish people – it’s evident in the lives of John XXIII and Paul VI, when the Israeli state had already been well-established.

Israel had been made a state when Pius XII was Pope. Pius XII, despite the claims, loved the Jewish people too. As the evidence shows, he drafted a condemnation of the Nazis back when he was the Cardinal Secretary of State for his predecessor Pius XI. He even let Roman Jews take refuge in Papal property.

So Pius XII did not have dislike for the Jews. Why then didn’t he establish relations with Israel as soon as the state was established?

It only proves that Vatican diplomatics is just different. We can’t use the same international standards.

 

[Valke2]

Unlike anti-semitism in the past, Hitler by clothing Jews as a race in order to support the genocidal campaign, did not make allowances for conversion or for the possiblitiy of Jews abandoning the “traits” that envoked hatred. Once it became a question of the “jewish race” conversion or assimilation were not options. Jews who converted or assimilated were viewed as attempting to “subvert Nationalists-Socialist principels.” (Schwarze Corps., 3/15/35).

By linking “jewish traits” as fixed and unchangeable, Hitler was able to throw away the historic use of coversion and assimilation as a solution to the “jewish problem.”

 

[deb1]

Unlike anti-semitism in the past, Hitler by clothing Jews as a race in order to support the genocidal campaign, did not make allowances for conversion or for the possiblitiy of Jews abandoning the “traits” that envoked hatred. Once it became a question of the “jewish race” conversion or assimilation were not options. Jews who converted or assimilated were viewed as attempting to “subvert Nationalists-Socialist principels.” (Schwarze Corps., 3/15/35).

By linking “jewish traits” as fixed and unchangeable, Hitler was able to throw away the historic use of coversion and assimilation as a solution to the “jewish problem.”

Hitler didn’t make the Jewish people a race. As I posted before, My husband’s grandmother had to include that she was Jewish on her records long before Hitler came to prominence. If you ever read any histories of the Jewish people, you will see that antisemitism based on race was popular long before Hitler.

 

[Valke2]

Hitler didn’t make the Jewish people a race. As I posted before, My husband’s grandmother had to include that she was Jewish on her records long before Hitler came to prominence. If you ever read any histories of the Jewish people, you will see that antisemitism based on race was popular long before Hitler.

I didn’t say Hitler invented the race theory. But he used it. And unlike other systems of anti-semetism, his use did not leave room for assimilation or conversion.

 

[Valke2]

From Wikipedia:

Racial antisemitism. Either a pre-cursor or by-product of the eugenics movement, racial antisemitism replaced hatred of the Jewish religion with the concept that the Jews themselves were a distinct and inferior race. Unlike the religious version, the problem was not the Jews’ social beliefs, but their genetic makeup.

 

[Karin]

I didn’t say Hitler invented the race theory. But he used it. And unlike other systems of anti-semetism, his use did not leave room for assimilation or conversion.

He (Hitler) did not want assimilation or conversion of the “racially impure”…he wanted the master (Aryan) race to remain pure…so why would he allow or give thought to jews/Gypsies/poles/blacks etc. assimilating or converting…it would go totally against what he wanted-a PURE race!

 

[Valke2]

My hubby’s grandmother escaped Austria in 1939, along with her infant daughter-my Mil. She has sent her ten year old daughter to England for safety sake. Much of her family were killed in the Holocaust.

One thing that amazed me was looking at her report card from child hood. It had a word that meant Jewish on it. Long before Hitler came to power, people kept records of who belonged to what religious group.

My Husband’s grandmother was not even a religious Jewish person, she was secular as was her family.

From what I understand Hitler’s particular hatred of the Jews was based more on ethnicity then religion.

Hitler declared Jews a race in 1935. What year was your mother’s report card. The use of the race in destroying the Jews was especially important for Hitler because at the time Jews in Germany were most intergrated in Germany than anywhere else in Europe. They had, in fact, assimilated.

 

[Valke2]

In 1939 a Roper poll found that only thirty-nine percent of Americans felt that Jews should be treated like other people. Fifty-three percent believed that “Jews are different and should be restricted” and ten percent believed that Jews should be deported

 

[Karin]

Hitler declared Jews a race in 1935. What year was your mother’s report card.

and in the 1980’s the US Supreme Court ruled that Jews where also a race SOURCE

 

[Valke2]

and in the 1980’s the US Supreme Court ruled that Jews where also a race SOURCE

Yes. A completley different animal. This was done because the Court held that at the time that laws were passed that discriminated against people, Jews were commonly thought of as a race. So, because the laws that were racist considered Jews a race, the Supreme Court decided to consider Jews a race for the purpose of redressing the anti-discriminatory laws.

 

[deb1]

Hitler declared Jews a race in 1935. What year was your mother’s report card. The use of the race in destroying the Jews was especially important for Hitler because at the time Jews in Germany were most intergrated in Germany than anywhere else in Europe. They had, in fact, assimilated.

My hubby’s grandmother is who I am referring to. She died in the nineties, and she was over ninety at her death. So, she would have been a child before Hitler came to power.

She and her husband escaped Austria in 1939 with my MIL who was an infant at the time.

 

[deb1]

In 1939 a Roper poll found that only thirty-nine percent of Americans felt that Jews should be treated like other people. Fifty-three percent believed that “Jews are different and should be restricted” and ten percent believed that Jews should be deported

At one time there were apparently swimming pools in America that actually seperated out Jews and CHristians.

Groucho Marx the comedian has a famous joke that is based on an incident in his life. He went to a pool and was told that he couldn’t swim because he was Jewish. His wife was not Jewish so he asked if his son could wade up to his knees. He was being sarcastic of course, but until I read that I had no idea that Jewish people were treated like that in AMerica.

 

[dosdog]

Racial antisemitism. Either a pre-cursor or by-product of the eugenics movement, racial antisemitism replaced hatred of the Jewish religion with the concept that the Jews themselves were a distinct and inferior race. Unlike the religious version, the problem was not the Jews’ social beliefs, but their genetic makeup.

Eugenics traces its roots to Britain in the early 1880s, when Sir Francis Galton coined the term to mean “well-born”.his book Studies of Hereditary Genius (1869),
Madison Grant, a leading eugenicist, warned that racial mixing was "a social and racial crime. In his immensely popular book The Passing of the Great Race (1916) Grant cautioned: "The cross between a white man and an Indian is an Indian; the cross between a white man and a negro is a negro.
Buck v. Bell supplied a precedent for the eventual sterilization of approximately 8,300 Virginians. Borrowing from Laughlin’s Model Law, the German Nazi government adopted a law in 1933 that provided Laughlin proudly published a translation of the German Law for the Prevention of Defective Progeny in The Eugenical News

American Eugenics Party

RACE AND STOCK PURITY
National laws must be enacted to prohibit marriage between the races and to encourage stock (ethnic group) purity. The negroes are too different genetically and will always be a source of conflict. Negroes must be resettled in Africa. The remaining genetic types are similar enough to associate amiably with one another, but the tendency for the different genetic types to live, work, and play in separate ghettos is to be encouraged.
NO PERSECUTION
No race or stock is to be harshly treated. All caucasian stocks (Germans, Jews, Italians, Poles, etc.) are to remain separate and free from persecution or abuse and must unite to ward off the non-caucasian genetic threat.
QUANTITY CONTROL
The United States is already over-populated. We must stop all immigration and impose birth controls.
QUALITY CONTROL
Those genetic types within each race and stock having better traits will be encouraged to produce more offspring and those having the lesser qualities will be restricted in the number of their offspring.
EXPERTS RULE
History shows that equal vote for unequal people eventually destroys society. Experts are to be selected through various improved qualification tests; all are eligible to take the tests; more than one expert is to be in each important position; and rotation of leadership among the qualified. Experts make fewer errors in all phases of life. This “civil-service-test” selection of leaders will promote confidence and efficiency.
INCENTIVE ECONOMICS
A high incentive level is necessary in society because of acquired and hereditary differences. Those who are not capable are to be humanely treated and their basic needs guaranteed. To promote greater progress, significant creativity and other major contributions (societal necessities, acts of bravery, etc.) are to be specially rewarded.
NEUTRAL ON GOD
The AMERICAN EUGENICS PARTY does not oppose any religion which upholds Eugenic Principles. As an organization, we do not take a position on the existence of God.
POSITIVE PUBLIC COMMUNICATION MEDIA
Dysgenic acts and ideas will not be conveyed over the public communication media. Such expression is negative to young and impressionable minds and prevents a pleasant atmosphere for the capable.
The caucasians are the controlling race in the world but the reason we do not have a Eugenic Society today is because of interfering, mentally deficient caucasians (White Defectives) in controlling positions (incorrect eugenic programs are a secondary cause). There are White Defectives who propose race mixing, while other White Defectives promote inter-caucasian strife - both prevent Eugenics but in different ways. White Defectives must be removed from controlling positions.
DYSGENIC RECREATION
Violence-type sports such as boxing, bullfights, etc. are to be eliminated or suitably altered. These types of “recreations” help produce negative behavior in lesser mental types because they promote disregard for human and animal life.
ANTI-VICE Laws
are to be enacted and enforced to prohibit gambling, alcoholism, smoking in public places, prostitution, sexual perversion, narcotics, obscene display in literature, movies, etc. and other vices. Happiness, health, and progress are endangered by these dysgenic acts
EUGENIC MARRIAGES
Eugenic marriages will be encouraged through a nationwide classification of all marriageable individuals. Those with similar qualities will be encouraged to meet and eventually marry.
eugenicsarchive.org/html/eugenics/essay6text.html