Why Apostates Who Leave Mormonism Fight So Hard Against It

[zerinus]

Joseph Smith explained:

A man by the name of Behunnin once told the Prophet Joseph Smith that if he were ever to leave the Church, he would not do as others had done and turn and fight against it. “I would,” he said, “go to some remote place where Mormonism had never been heard of, settle down, and no one would ever learn that I knew anything about it.” Joseph Smith’s response was immediate: “Brother Behunnin, you don’t know what you would do. . . . Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached, good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them. When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that, you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve, it will be by the instigation of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant” (Juvenile Instructor 27 [15 August 1892]: 492).

zerinus

 

[rmcmullan]

Zerinus,

Thanks for the picture from the Hubble Deep Sky Survey. I worked on the Hubble Space Telescope for many years and absolutely loved it. But all good things come to an end.

As for your quote from Joseph Smith, it’s entirely consistent with Matt 12:43-45

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

 

[why_me]

The lds church has a powerful message and a powerful beginning. Those who received a witness of the book of mormon and turn away seem not to be able to leave the lds church alone. The church that they once loved seems to turn to hate. Sad and not very christian.

 

[AMDGtoo]

The lds church has a powerful message and a powerful beginning. Those who received a witness of the book of mormon and turn away seem not to be able to leave the lds church alone. The church that they once loved seems to turn to hate. Sad and not very christian.

Or they can be so sad and in such pain that they were lied to, duped, and made to suffer so much that they work hard to make sure that no one else is hurt so very badly. Afterall, the LDS do not treat ex-members very well–hmm, the LDS don’t treat members very well either. And that is surely not very Christian.

 

[Tonks40]

Or they can be so sad and in such pain that they were lied to, duped, and made to suffer so much that they work hard to make sure that no one else is hurt so very badly. Afterall, the LDS do not treat ex-members very well–hmm, the LDS don’t treat members very well either. And that is surely not very Christian.

Based on what I’ve seen on this board alone, it appears that those who have left the LDS faith have been ostracized by their members in one form or another.

Why is that, dear Mormon friends?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Cult Test Question #3 No Exit

There is simply no proper or honorable way to leave the cult. Period. To leave is to fail, to die, to be defeated by evil. To leave is to invite divine retribution. Members are often taught that all kinds of bad things will happen to them if they leave: They will lose all of the spiritual progress that they made while they were in the cult, or they won’t be able to get into Heaven, or the Devil or demons will get them, or they will relapse and die of drugs and alcohol… That is another standard cult characteristic: [The Cult Implants Phobias (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q3.html#cq_phobias), and more of the usual threats and fears are listed under that item.

There are often tremendous obstacles to leaving:
There is usually some form of peer pressure, where loyal cult members will work 'round the clock on any member who has doubts about the cult and longs for his or her old life. (The other cult members don’t want to get left behind, and splitters shake their own “faith”.)

A corollary to the “No Exit” rule is the demonization of those who leave:

• • They are evil, weak, and selfish. *
• • They are stupid and foolish. *
• • They are wandering in darkness, unable to see. *
• • They are traitors, quitters, turn-coats, disloyal, deserters. *
• • They have sold out. *
• • They are Enemies of the Cross. *
• • They have chosen Evil over Goodness. *
• • They are losers, trying to throw stones at winners. *
• • They didn’t chant enough, or they didn’t meditate enough, or they didn’t do enough yoga. *
• • They weren’t really trying. *
• • They didn’t follow the procedures correctly. *
• • They were unable to resist the temptation to sin. *
• • They hid their problems, and didn’t reveal them to the group. *
• • They couldn’t overcome their cravings for sex, alcohol, or drugs. *
• • They couldn’t give up their attachments to money and possessions. *
• • They couldn’t be honest. *
• • They were always stupid, real losers. *
• • They never could get it right. *
• • They are the spawn of Satan. *
• • They were always trying to destroy our movement. *
• • They were never a part of us to begin with. *
• • We are much better off without their bad influences. *

 

[VWcrazy]

Mormonism is Apostacy. Those who leave Mormonism leave apostacy.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Joseph Smith explained:

A man by the name of Behunnin once told the Prophet Joseph Smith that if he were ever to leave the Church, he would not do as others had done and turn and fight against it. “I would,” he said, “go to some remote place where Mormonism had never been heard of, settle down, and no one would ever learn that I knew anything about it.” Joseph Smith’s response was immediate: “Brother Behunnin, you don’t know what you would do. . . . Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached, good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them. When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that, you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve, it will be by the instigation of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant” (Juvenile Instructor 27 [15 August 1892]: 492).

zerinus

Thank you for the picture from the the Hubble. Mr Hubble was a teacher and boys basketball coach at the High School in my home town ( obviously well before my time) So I take a little pride in his work as a home town hero.

Why are ex Mormons so set on teaching against Mormons? When I darkness and you come out knowing there are other either still in the darkness or heading toward it you try to all that you can to keep them from going in or to get them out. Since J Smith was the Apostate to Christianity those that have fallen prey to it and become freed from it have even more to fight for as they have seen first hand the dangers of those lies.

 

[hosemonkey]

Or they can be so sad and in such pain that they were lied to, duped, and made to suffer so much that they work hard to make sure that no one else is hurt so very badly. Afterall, the LDS do not treat ex-members very well–hmm, the LDS don’t treat members

very well either. And that is surely not very Christian.

Yep! Catholics have a duty “to instruct the ignorant”, teaching against the false cult of mormonism falls under that duty. If you see a stranger stepping into traffic, you have a duty to warn him. If you do not, his blood may be on your hands. So it is with mormonism.

 

[puzzleannie]

I only know a half dozen Mormons who have left that church to convert to Christianity, but those are people I have accompanied through RCIA so know their stories fairly well. Without exception (including the two cradle Catholics who became Mormon for a time) they harbor a sense of bitterness and recrimination at being lied to about the source of revelation claimed by the LDS and by its teachings, so opposed to Christianity. They also have to deal with some guilt feelings about being duped and manipulated and most have used terminology like “cult” to describe their experience as Mormons.

The only converts who seem to have greater problems detaching from the old church and greater animosity toward it are Jehovahs Witnesses, of whom I have known 4 who completed their conversion, and several more who were unable to bring themselves to convert.

 

[zerinus]

Zerinus,

Thanks for the picture from the Hubble Deep Sky Survey. I worked on the Hubble Space Telescope for many years and absolutely loved it. But all good things come to an end.

Thank you too. The Hubble images are great. I made several images to use for my signature, and chose that one for now. Here are the rest:

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Some are images of deep space, some are of various spiral Galaxies or the Sombrero Galaxy. In the deep space images, each of those tiny dots is a galaxy, each of which might contain billions of stars, each star being a potential solar system. And that is just a tiny pinhole view of space. The number of stars and galaxies in the universe is mindboggling. And LDS scripture teaches that they contain inhabited planets.

As for your quote from Joseph Smith, it’s entirely consistent with Matt 12:43-45

43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

I entirely agree. That is a great quote. You might be interested to know how the Joseph Smith’s inspired translation of the Bible renders these verses. Everything typed in red did not exist in the original KJV, and was added by Joseph Smith:

JST, MATTHEW 12:37–38

37. Then came some of the Scribes and said unto him, Master, it is written that, Every sin shall be forgiven; but ye say, Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. And they asked him, saying, How can these things be?

1. And he said unto them, When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest and findeth none; but when a man speaketh against the Holy Ghost, then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth him empty, swept and garnished; for the good spirit leaveth him unto himself.

zerinus

 

[ralphinal]

There are several possible reasons that they speak so hard against the former faith.

1. The shunning that they encounter causes a hatred to form.
2. They feel that in many ways what they thought was a faith was more of a control.
3. they feel lied to by those who brought them in
4. There is a feeling of being “cheated” by buying into a “man-made” ideology

The real answer is that you should ask former Mormons and then see if their story holds up to scrutiny. Most do.

 

[tundramom]

When I first became a Christian I tried to reconcile Mormonism with my new found Faith. It was only then that I discovered anything about the mormon temple ceremony, as well as the history of mormonism without the “official” versions.

Yeah. I was angry. I was furious and I was determined that I would show my family and friends who were still Mormon how they were being lied to.

Years later, I find the most effective form of showing them is through prayer. Only God can open their eyes to the deceit.

in Christ
Steph

 

[zerinus]

There are several possible reasons that they speak so hard against the former faith.

1. The shunning that they encounter causes a hatred to form.
2. They feel that in many ways what they thought was a faith was more of a control.
3. they feel lied to by those who brought them in
4. There is a feeling of being “cheated” by buying into a “man-made” ideology

The real answer is that you should ask former Mormons and then see if their story holds up to scrutiny. Most do.

Not true! There is only one answer, and that is the one that Joseph Smith gave, or rmcmullan gave.There is no other.

zerinus

 

[nebula]

Joseph Smith explained:

A man by the name of Behunnin once told the Prophet Joseph Smith that if he were ever to leave the Church, he would not do as others had done and turn and fight against it. “I would,” he said, “go to some remote place where Mormonism had never been heard of, settle down, and no one would ever learn that I knew anything about it.” Joseph Smith’s response was immediate: “Brother Behunnin, you don’t know what you would do. . . . Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached, good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them. When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that, you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve, it will be by the instigation of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant” (Juvenile Instructor 27 [15 August 1892]: 492).

zerinus

zerinus,

I’ve been thinking about this topic a lot in light of my own strong interest in Mormonism. I continue to read about it, be interested in books published about it, to be interested in what the leaders have to say and so on in a way that transcends scholarly interest. I have to ask myself, why? Here’s the answer I came up with: because to be a Mormon that really fits into Mormonism, one that other Mormons and outsiders fully recognize as a member of the religion and culture, takes a lot of knowledge. I think about the fact that in the course of being an active Mormon I learned Mormon lingo, cultural norms, theology, spent countless hours reading Mormon scriptures, participating in temple ceremonies, engaged in callings, the list can go on. That’s all to say, I accumulated a lot of knowledge capital in Mormonism, and to just dump it all as useless seems like such a waste, I want to engage it, somewhere. But how? The bald fact of the matter is that my theology excludes me from Mormon life and the only way to remain engaged in it is to live a lie and I’m not willing to do that. I think a lot of ex Mormons feel similarly though some take different paths, some find that their knowledge is highly valued by anti Mormon ministries or their new local churches or just by the general public fascinated by the uniqueness of Mormon religion.

I’m sure that’s just one dimension to it, but I think it can be a big player.

 

[jimmy]

Not true! There is only one answer, and that is the one that Joseph Smith gave, or rmcmullan gave.There is no other.

zerinus

Actually I would say that J. Smith was the tool of Satan. He led people away from Christianity and into a false religion. Those who have left mormonism are probably very bitter against the church which lied to them.

 

[ralphinal]

Not true! There is only one answer, and that is the one that Joseph Smith gave, or rmcmullan gave.There is no other.

zerinus

You are making one false assumption and one that is questionable.

It is false to say that the only reason people leave is because of the devil. They may leave because they fall in love with someone else. they may leave because they do not see what you are saying is true.

It is questionable to say that the LDS faith IS 100% the faith established by Christ. You see it as such. I find the claims problematic.

 

[Dempsey1919]

In some cases, bitterness causes people to leave their faith to begin with; and when they convert to another religion, that bitterness only intensifies. Many people are bitter before they even leave; the bitterness is the cause of their apostacy.

However, people who leave their faith may feel that they have been lead astray by others, and this causes them to be bitter. It’s not just ex-mormons who are this way; many ex-catholics are too.

 

[zerinus]

You are making one false assumption and one that is questionable.

It is false to say that the only reason people leave is because of the devil. They may leave because they fall in love with someone else. They may leave because they do not see what you are saying is true.

First of all, the question was not about why people leave the Church, but why they afterwards turn around and fight against it. There are those who leave the Church, and then forget about it and go no further. Secondly, even leaving the Church (for any reason) is wrong, and can only come from evil. What does Catholic doctrine say about those who leave the Catholic Church? Does it say it is Okay to leave—for whatever reason?

It is questionable to say that the LDS faith IS 100% the faith established by Christ. You see it as such. I find the claims problematic.

I certainly do; it is 100% the faith established by Jesus Christ. It is not perfect. Nobody claims that it is. But the priesthood is there, and the authority is there, and it is the faith established by Jesus Christ.

By the way, here are more from Joseph Smith on the same theme:

“There is a superior intelligence bestowed upon such as obey the Gospel with full purpose of heart, which, if sinned against, the apostate is left naked and destitute of the Spirit of God, and he is, in truth, nigh unto cursing, and his end is to be burned. When once that light which was in them is taken from them they become as much darkened as they were previously enlightened, and then, no marvel, if all their power should be enlisted against the truth, and they, Judas-like, seek the destruction of those who were their greatest benefactors. . . .

“From what source emanated the principle which has ever been manifested by apostates from the true Church to persecute with double diligence, and seek with double perseverance, to destroy those whom they once professed to love, with whom they once communed, and with whom they once covenanted to strive with every power in righteousness to obtain the rest of God? Perhaps our brethren will say the same that caused Satan to seek to overthrow the kingdom of God, because he himself was evil, and God’s kingdom is holy.” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2007), p 321)

And more from the Gospels:

Matthew 6:

**22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!**

zerinus

 

[Chris-WA]

Some fight against it because they are bitter, some fight against it because some wrong was done to them. But most fight against it because when they finally realize that they were duped for so long after investing their whole lives into it, they have to do something to help others out of it. When you find truth you want to share it with others. In the same way, when you discover that what you thought was the truth is actually a lie, you naturally want to help others get out.

The problem with believing Mormons is that they cannot fathom why a good Mormon would ever want to leave the LDS church of their own accord. They’re so convinced that it’s true that watching someone else leave is completely inconprehensible to them. So people like Zerinus use words like ‘apostate’ in order to demonize them and make their departure explainable without affecting their own beliefs. When someone leaves Mormonism, the only way people like Zerinus can explain it is that there must be something wrong with the person, not with the church.