Why Apostates Who Leave Mormonism Fight So Hard Against It

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Chris-WA said:
Some fight against it because they are bitter, some fight against it because some wrong was done to them. But most fight against it because when they finally realize that they were duped for so long after investing their whole lives into it, they have to do something to help others out of it. When you find truth you want to share it with others. In the same way, when you discover that what you thought was the truth is actually a lie, you naturally want to help others get out.

The problem with believing Mormons is that they cannot fathom why a good Mormon would ever want to leave the LDS church of their own accord. They’re so convinced that it’s true that watching someone else leave is completely inconprehensible to them. So people like Zerinus use words like ‘apostate’ in order to demonize them and make their departure explainable without affecting their own beliefs. When someone leaves Mormonism, the only way people like Zerinus can explain it is that there must be something wrong with the person, not with the church.
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And leving it is the same as fighting against it? How?

I am as much against those who leave the Catholic Church, and then fight against it; as I am against those who leave Mormonism, and then fight against it. Those who leave Mormonism and become Catholics, and then turn around and fight against Mormonism, will one day do the same to the Catholic Church.

zerinus
 
As a former Mormon, I now walk in the light of Christ as a member of the Catholic Church. I have nothing but love for the people in the Mormon Church, but Mormonism is full of lies and darkness. So,I will do all I can to help any of them find the light as my family and I have, but this is not out of hate, but deep love.

May the Lord be Praised.
 
Zerinus, although I do agree with what JS said, I’ve been around long enough to know that most people go out with a whimper rather than a roar. If you’ve been out home teaching some one who’s “hard to get a hold of”, you’ll know it’s for a variety of reasons. Most inactive to very inactive members still retain good feelings for the church they identify with but never attend. Very similar to a Catholic who only attends one Easter and Christmas.

I think the number of people who are antogonistic is very small and (CAF posters aside), fairly rare. But there’s no question that we are a strong draw to our detractors. I think it’s because our church demands a lot of our time and talent and when people loose faith, there’s a much bigger let down than something they’ve only had a minor investment in. I think some of the ex-Mormon Catholics in this thread are trying to say as much.

As I’ve mentioned before, I came to be LDS from a Catholic background but notwithstanding the abuse we (LDS posters) all enjoy here, I have nothing but great respect for Catholics. I’m very grateful to the Catholic nuns and priests and teachers that nourished my faith in the (RC) Canadian separate school system. And while serving a mission, there’s no question that the Catholics were very tolerant and friendly, much more so than any of the Protestants religions. And I still can’t understand how badly twisted up the Protestant doctrines became.

I dunno if you’ve every “lived among the saints” in Utah. I have not but from what my sons (who go to BYU) say, the church in Utah suffers many of the same problems the Catholic church does. A lot of people who are “cultural” Mormons. If you’re a cultural Mormon and not too heavily invested, it’s a lot easier to leave.
 
zerinus said:
And leving it is the same as fighting against it? How?

I am as much against those who leave the Catholic Church, and then fight against it; as I am against those who leave Mormonism, and then fight against it. Those who leave Mormonism and become Catholics, and then turn around and fight against Mormonism, will one day do the same to the Catholic Church.

zerinus
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zerinus,

Once a cheater, always a cheater eh? I don’t think it works that way in the murky world of religion. Think of the Tanners, turned against Mormonism and one just died, firmly in his evangelicalism, never did turn against that. It may be that people who left Mormonism learned a lesson to take their next religious step carefully and thoughtfully and take it very seriously. I know I am trying to do that, the last thing I want is a frivolous decision that ends up with my disenchantment and ‘leaving’ again. I’d better get it together and really think about what I believe and don’t believe because all that going to and fro is an insult to God. Frankly I didn’t think hard enough when I joined Mormonism, and I even knew it at the time. I thought the theology was interesting, fascinating, different,a nd I wanted to believe in it, but I never quite truly believed in it, but figured that my spiritual experiences (I considered them testimonies from the spirit at the time) covered the intellectual disconnect. I know better now and I hope to honor God best I can.
 
I don’t think this was a very productive topic to broach here, in the first place. I’m sure there is a lot of truth to what Joseph Smith and Jesus said about apostasy, but it’s certainly not a black-and-white issue. What is the point of starting a thread in a Catholic forum where it is sure to be interpreted by all the ex-Mormons here as an insult? It sounds like you are saying that anyone who leaves Mormonism must be a teeth-gnashing banshee under Satan’s power, and so everyone can ignore everything they have to say. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, but that’s how people will take it. People can come back, but I’ve never heard of it being accomplished that way.
 
BDawg said:
I don’t think this was a very productive topic to broach here, in the first place. I’m sure there is a lot of truth to what Joseph Smith and Jesus said about apostasy, but it’s certainly not a black-and-white issue. What is the point of starting a thread in a Catholic forum where it is sure to be interpreted by all the ex-Mormons here as an insult? It sounds like you are saying that anyone who leaves Mormonism must be a teeth-gnashing banshee under Satan’s power, and so everyone can ignore everything they have to say. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, but that’s how people will take it. People can come back, but I’ve never heard of it being accomplished that way.
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i think that’s exactly what he meant with this. zerinus tends to promote a brand of mormonism that those of who were members know isn’t the “official” LDS doctrine. mormonism positions itself as an all or nothing proposition as well. so those who leave it must be discredited at all costs if they ever dare speak against it.

a former member who actually knew the doctrine and left because they discovered it isn’t true can’t be allowed to influence potential converts unchallenged.

while you and i may be able to academically debate religious topics in an objective manner, zerinus and his ilk stick to the emotional appeal and the all or nothing proposition that results form it.

I just wonder where the fence sitters like whyme and tsuzuki fit into his paradigm?

i wold point out that no one who isn’t mormon accepts Joseph Smith’s words on this subject as meaningful in any way. furthermore, few of us were “neutral” at any time. i was BIC and so was inculcated in the mormon testimony. as an adult I tried my best to believe it by acting as if it were true (alma, etc.) but at the end of the day I had to conclude that it was false. at the same time my studies and prayers convinced me of the truth of the Catholic church. I do not go to mormon sites to preach nor do i engage in any of the common “anti-mormon” pursuits. I DO however feel compelled to inoculate catholics and those seeking to become catholic against mormon heresy.i also feel i can help mormons seeking to become catholic. i look to jesus words to peter…“when thou art converted, go and strengthen thy brethren”…
 
welll i am a cradle catholic then pentacostal then both then non denom finally with the grace of God i am grounded in the truth and in His Church,yep you guessed it the Catholic church of the latin rite…when the truth dawned on me i felt driven with the love of God to try and reach out with this love to one in the non-denom church…only to have my love for them be turned into something very ugly by their accusations against my intentions…:mad: that bitterness has lingering effects it has been four yrs now and i still have very little paitence for those outside the church especially when they start the false accusations against the Church…so maybe that is why exmormans get “mean” to their former church,they have tried reaching out in love only to have that same God given love trod under foot…
 
Apparently it was part of this week’s Mormon Sunday school lesson.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Apparently it was part of this week’s Mormon Sunday school lesson.
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I’m sorry I am very tired and easily lost, what was part of the Mormon Sunday school lesson? And how do you find this stuff out???
 
BDawg said:
I don’t think this was a very productive topic to broach here, in the first place. I’m sure there is a lot of truth to what Joseph Smith and Jesus said about apostasy, but it’s certainly not a black-and-white issue. What is the point of starting a thread in a Catholic forum where it is sure to be interpreted by all the ex-Mormons here as an insult?
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I don’t accept that. You seem to be under the wrong impression that just because this is a Catholic board and I am a Mormon, I shouldn’t start threads here at all. I don’t agree. I have started several threads here before (not as many as some, but quite a few), and I have no qualms about starting future ones. I have as much right to start a thread here as the next person, and so do you. Here is a list of my past threads:

forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=1906459

As for the quotes from Joseph Smith, they are not “black and white” statements. Joseph Smith was not referring to those who just lose their testimony and become inactive or leave the Church. He was referring to those who sin against the light of the Spirit that is in them, lose that Spirit altogether, and become fully-fledged apostates. These are in a different category of people than those who just lose their testimony and lose interest in the Church.

As for my post being perceived as “insulting” to ex-Mormons, too bad! If that is insulting, then Jesus was the most insulting person on the planet. Go and read his remarks to the scribes and Pharisees to discover that for yourself. Let me assure you I have no regrets or second thoughts about starting this thread, and have no worries about starting future ones should I decide to.
It sounds like you are saying that anyone who leaves Mormonism must be a teeth-gnashing banshee under Satan’s power, and so everyone can ignore everything they have to say. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, but that’s how people will take it. People can come back, but I’ve never heard of it being accomplished that way.
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It “sounds like” nothing of the kind. If anyone wants to read that into it, that is their choice, not mine. Joseph Smith made an inspiring comment (more than one inspiring comment), and I agree with him entirely, and that is why I have quoted them here. No regrets about that at all.

zerinus
 
RebeccaJ said:
Cult Test Question #3 No Exit

There is simply no proper or honorable way to leave the cult. Period. To leave is to fail, to die, to be defeated by evil. To leave is to invite divine retribution. Members are often taught that all kinds of bad things will happen to them if they leave: They will lose all of the spiritual progress that they made while they were in the cult, or they won’t be able to get into Heaven, or the Devil or demons will get them, or they will relapse and die of drugs and alcohol… That is another standard cult characteristic: [The Cult Implants Phobias (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q3.html#cq_phobias), and more of the usual threats and fears are listed under that item.

There are often tremendous obstacles to leaving:
There is usually some form of peer pressure, where loyal cult members will work 'round the clock on any member who has doubts about the cult and longs for his or her old life. (The other cult members don’t want to get left behind, and splitters shake their own “faith”.)

A corollary to the “No Exit” rule is the demonization of those who leave:
    • They are evil, weak, and selfish. *
    • They are stupid and foolish. *
    • They are wandering in darkness, unable to see. *
    • They are traitors, quitters, turn-coats, disloyal, deserters. *
    • They have sold out. *
    • They are Enemies of the Cross. *
    • They have chosen Evil over Goodness. *
    • They are losers, trying to throw stones at winners. *
    • They didn’t chant enough, or they didn’t meditate enough, or they didn’t do enough yoga. *
    • They weren’t really trying. *
    • They didn’t follow the procedures correctly. *
    • They were unable to resist the temptation to sin. *
    • They hid their problems, and didn’t reveal them to the group. *
    • They couldn’t overcome their cravings for sex, alcohol, or drugs. *
    • They couldn’t give up their attachments to money and possessions. *
    • They couldn’t be honest. *
    • They were always stupid, real losers. *
    • They never could get it right. *
    • They are the spawn of Satan. *
    • They were always trying to destroy our movement. *
    • They were never a part of us to begin with. *
    • We are much better off without their bad influences. *
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hmm … sounds oddly familiar. I wonder where I’ve heard this before 🤷
 
I don’t want to get too ecumenical here but I believe that the search for truth is a very personal one, it goes deep, and we should guard and respect a person’s beliefs as well as we can. A person, regardless of their religious affiliation, can do much good or evil but most churches will point them towards the former. So what can we expect from brand of church that we worship at? If I suddenly changed from RC to LDS or vice versa, what sort of behaivors could people expect to see change in me?

I thought the Sunday School lesson this week was about having a change in heart. This can happen indepedent of church affiliation. A change in heart requires a person be humble and contrite. Like a little child.

When that happens, I hope the person will find the Lord’s church but even if they only find an approximation, they still have pryaer and the scriptures and the insipration of the Holy Ghost to guide them.
 
humble and contrite? sounds good but i see instead an arrogant sense of entitlement by zerinus to post such drivel on a catholic site in such a confrontational manner. i guess he is scared to death his testimony might falter as he discovers the truth here.
 
uglygal said:
hmm … sounds oddly familiar. I wonder where I’ve heard this before 🤷
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Note the ‘work round the clock’ bit - you had anyone from your local Catholic parish come round to your doorstep uninvited, trying to steamroller you into staying? That is what Mormons and these other cult-type groups will do to those who attempt to leave.
 
zerinus said:
I don’t accept that. You seem to be under the wrong impression that just because this is a Catholic board and I am a Mormon, I shouldn’t start threads here at all. I don’t agree.
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Hi Z,

I don’t start threads here because that’s my personal rule. You are free to have your own personal rules.

I merely pointed out that one could have predicted the response to this particular OP, and I don’t see how that response could be seen as productive in any way. Sure, Jesus ripped into the “Pharisees and hypocrites” pretty regularly, but I’ve seen that used as an excuse for Mormon bashing by ignoramuses enough that I think it’s usually wise to tread more lightly. For example, the persecution of Mormons in Missouri was largely unprovoked, but it was probably made worse by Mormons going around telling their neighbors that the whole area was destined to be the city of Zion.

All this is not to say that my posts are unfailingly polite. Sometimes I get just as snitty as anyone (except hosemonkey, who is on his own planet when it comes to verbal abuse). But even if nobody is perfect, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t all be trying to help each other tone it down. If I post something that you think is rude and unwise, I will (hopefully) be happy to be admonished by you (after stewing about it, swearing a little bit, and then finally giving up and admitting that you are probably right EVEN THOUGH IT WASN’T ALL MY FAULT!!:D)
 
uglygal said:
hmm … sounds oddly familiar. I wonder where I’ve heard this before 🤷
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As a former atheist, I can say there was a time where I said this about all religions, period. That was because I thought all religions were like mormonism, ie, a cult.

I haven’t experienced “cult” in Catholicism. That list could be applied loosely to corporate America, that doesn’t make corporate America a cult.

I don’t often use the word “cult” to describe mormonism, though. That is what it is but the word has become so meaningless, ambiguous and inflammatory that it becomes a less than useful term.

The word “lies” works much better, and isn’t ambiguous in its meaning.

But if you want to use “cult” to describe Catholicism, I believe it was an accurate term to use, especially the first three centuries or so after Christ’s Resurrection.

And there are cults within Catholicism.

But none are “cult”, ala the modern meaning of Moonies, Scientologist, Jehovah Witness and Mormons.

If Catholicism is what you have experienced as “cult”, then call yourself lucky and pray that God protects you from the real thing.
 
BDawg said:
I don’t start threads here because that’s my personal rule. You are free to have your own personal rules.
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OK.
I merely pointed out that one could have predicted the response to this particular OP, and I don’t see how that response could be seen as productive in any way.
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And you thought that I hadn’t predicted the response? I knew what the response should be better than you did. I am not worried about the response. Not afraid of them! 🙂

I reckon my posts were “productive”. I don’t care if theirs weren’t.

zerinus
 
so if z was really interested in gaining converts he would be out doing missionary work instead of trying to win a debate contest here. i think we can all see what’s really going on so let’s pray for zerinus. may the holy spirit reveal to him the truth, may jesus forgive him all his sins and mah God the Father pour out his blessings on our brother zerinus.
 
CarolinNC said:
As a former Mormon, I now walk in the light of Christ as a member of the Catholic Church. I have nothing but love for the people in the Mormon Church, but Mormonism is full of lies and darkness. So,I will do all I can to help any of them find the light as my family and I have, but this is not out of hate, but deep love.

May the Lord be Praised.
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Thanks CarolinNC. My prayers are with you and your family. Please pray for my brother, who left the Catholic Church to join the LDS Church. Pray with me that he may see it for what it is, and what it lacks, and come home to the true Catholic Church with his wife and family.

Peace,
-Robert
 
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