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SSTeacher
Guest
Surely it’s impossible for any of us to have any idea what hope might exist in the minds of others? And once one starts upon that kind of speculation it’s probably only a matter of time before one starts passing judgment upon others and then starts condemning them.
But what is the problem, exactly? As far as atheists are concerned I daresay the problem is religious people who won’t mind their own business. Atheists might well posit that religious people are trying forcibly to impose a religious version of reality upon atheists, which the atheists naturally resent since atheists affirm that the existence of God can’t be proved. So, atheists assert that they’ve decided not to waste time pursuing happiness in religion. That to me seems quite easy to follow. And if an atheist tells me that he or she has found happiness outside of religion I’ve no reason to disbelieve him or her.
Are you happy with your Catholicism? If you tell me that you are, won’t you feel insulted or irritated if I start telling you how wrong you are because you haven’t grasped the fullness of truth and you can’t possibly be happy?
I think you might be on the wrong track, here. The atheists I’ve met (mostly in Blighty, I must admit) have usually demonstrated strength of character and most of them, if my recollection is correct, have been individualists. But religion insists that people give up their individuality in favor of fellowship and community. That’s why most Christians would probably agree with the notion that there is no such thing as a “Lone Ranger” Christian. But I think it’s highly likely that if the attitudes and personalities of the English atheists that I’ve met are representative, then atheists are probably all intellectual and emotional Lone Rangers and possessed of just as much strength of character as anybody else.
I’m not making a case for atheism. I’m a Christian. But I would submit that surmising atheists are unhappy, hopeless, or weak simply because they choose not to believe in God is neither logical nor kind.
Respectfully,
Mick
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Charles_Darwin
Guest
Exactly, why even go to the hospital if god is going to save you? Could go not save you without the hospital?
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josie_L
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I didn’t say I was stupid, obviously we have doctors to help out but my situation in those first few days had more to do with God than any doctor (has the staff could do nothing more then pump me with antibiotics that were doing nothing to ameliorate my situation, I was even allergic to 5 of the antibiotics). There is no contradiction. I was saved from dying in those most critical moments because of God, that I had doctors who later thought it necessary for me to undergo surgeries (to get rid of the pus) was only possible because I had survived the first crucial week.
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josie_L
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double post.
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josie_L
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The situation I was in was already bad, severe, deadly so how does this even make sense. I only mentioned what I did to tell you how far gone I already was in terms of invasive infection (that I was only a few hours away from having the bacteria reach my heart).
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josie_L
Guest
“Group A Streptococcus is a bacterium often found in the throat and on the skin. People may carry group A streptococci in the throat or on the skin and have no symptoms of illness. Most GAS infections are relatively mild illnesses such as “strep throat,” or impetigo. On rare occasions, these bacteria can cause other severe and even life-threatening diseases.”
phagetherapycenter.com/pii/PatientServlet?command=static_strept
I had a life threatening disease so what part of I almost died did you not understand??? In fact, one of my doctors even felt it imcumbent to tell my parents that my chances of survival were slim. It was more or less a waiting game as the doctors watched to see how the antiobiotics were working (which they weren’t because the stage of infection was too severe, the bacteria had turned into a thick pus) in the first several days of my illness.
P.S. The doctor/surgeon whose name I now remember was Dr. Rosinov from Santa Cabrini Hospital in Montreal (try looking him up on the internet). He was the one that stated he had never seen a case like mine.
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arcio
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Yes, with a known mortality rate, which makes it very clear, that your recovery was no miracle, but was a highly probable outcome, if treated in a world class hospital.
Your infection, even if it develops into the most serious form of infection ( of which you admitted you did not suffer from septic shock) SEPTIC SHOCK, 40% of persons suffering from septic shock will survive.
Your recovery from Streptococcus pneumonia, with the most severe cases, bringing a max mortality of 35%, leaving a full 65% of people who will recover, is not a miracle. It was almost a statistical certainity.
If you suffered from an illness with a 99.99999999% mortality rate and you recovered, without having gone to a hospital, then yes, I would admit that you had a miraculous recovery.
I don’t know how you can receive treatment in a world class hospital, surrounded by highly trained medical professionals, with access to every modern medicine, operating theaters, intubators and litterally with a team of Doctors assigned to saving your life…and then you credit your God for having saved you?
We all know, that without that hospital and those medical interventions, you would have died. I’m equally baffled, as to why you then claim it was God who kept you alive long enough, so that the Doctors could then take over and finish the job.
I’m also baffled as to how a Doctor would state that they had never seen a case such as yours, when people **RECOVER FROM SEPTIC SHOCK **40% of the time ( a far more serious infection than what you faced)
Your search - Rosinov Santa Cabrini Hospital - did not match any documents.
Your search - Rosinov Santa Cabrini montreal - did not match any documents.
Your search - Doctor Rosinov Santa Cabrini montreal - did not match any documents.
Results 1 - 3 of 3 for Doctor Rosinov montreal. ( None of these are your doctor)
Results 1 - 2 of 2 for Doctor Rosinov quebec. ( both are historical documents, one is from 1972 and the other from the 1940’s, unrelated to your doctor)
I can’t seem to find anything about your Doctor on google.
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tomarin
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Certainly not all atheists are angry but a minority of them are what I would call “secular fundamentalists” who seem to feel that everyone has to share their contempt for religion – or else be called an idiot. I think Bill Maher and Sam Harris are examples of these people (also most of the people who contribute to the “comments” of any NY Times article on the Catholic Church). They regard religion as a crime against humanity.
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josie_L
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Whoa, you’re putting words in my mouth I never said it was a world class hospital (you don’t know much about health care in Canada do you?).
No, I didn’t suffer from septic shock but I had other complications which were just as detrimental (my family was told I could very well die so obviously the doctors saw the danger I was in). How do you even attempt to know what I went through by citing the percentages that you do? My case was unique to me because of the severity of the infection (in both lungs with a collapsed lung) added with all the other variables of which I spoke of earlier.
No, my case was compounded by sepsis and a collapsed lung.
Excuse me, but who made you a doctor that I should be evaluated by your standards and not those of whom were cognizant of all that I went through?
Do you always see things so black and white even though it has been explained to you that I do credit the doctors for helping me only that in those first critical days they were not able to do much? I believe it was the prayers issued by my family and friends that got me out of those first few days. I am not implying that I miraculously recovered right after this but without Him I would not have progressed further (it was in his hands).
Of course, you’re baffled you don’t understand God and how He works. And why couldn’t God help me while also allowing me to use modern amenities in His quest to save me? I don’t feel the need to separate faith from reason like you do.We all know, that without that hospital and those medical interventions, you would have died. I’m equally baffled, as to why you then claim it was God who kept you alive long enough, so that the Doctors could then take over and finish the job.
But I have already mentioned the different variables or certain unique qualities of my case. Are you a doctor?
It might be my mispelling of his name, try Rosinoff or Rossinov (I hope you don’t think I meant to imply he was world reknowned as he is not). If all else fails try Santa Cabrini Hospital and Montreal and maybe then his name will pop up.
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arcio
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Nice to see that you have such a high regard for the hospital and the health care system that was soley responsible for saving your life.
This is going no where.
You believe you were saved by a super natural God, where upon I know that the Doctors, the medical interventions, the medicines and the surgeries saved your life.
The test - would you have lived had you not been admitted to a hospital?
From everything your saying, NO, you surely would not have, no matter how many prayers were said in your name.
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josie_L
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I have a great respect for the doctors and everyone else who took care of me, however, that health care system (initially) is what allowed my disease to progress as far as it did. I had gone to a doctor who misdiagnosed me two days before I was admitted into the hospital, and then that very same night I called an ambulance whose technicians failed to see any serious problems.
P.S. My being in the hospital was necessary but so was God to my recovery. You are forcing me to think as you do in a mutually exclusive manner with no possibility for overlapping between the realms of faith and reason.
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JordanSRT
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It looks like you’ve had enough of this topic from arcio. I’ll not trouble you with it further except to say, I’m glad things turned out for the best.I have a great respect for the doctors and everyone else who took care of me, however, that health care system (initially) is what allowed my disease to progress as far as it did. I had gone to a doctor who misdiagnosed me two days before I was admitted into the hospital, and then that very same night I called an ambulance whose technicians failed to see any serious problems.
P.S. My being in the hospital was necessary but so was God to my recovery. You are forcing me to think as you do in a mutually exclusive manner with no possibility for overlapping between the realms of faith and reason.
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Reuben_J
Guest
Life itself is already a miracle. A very good friend passed away three months ago on an examination table during a follow-up while the doctors checked his stent that was inserted earlier during an angiogram. He was very normal before that. His death was a shock and unexpected.
I knew a sister in our community who was healed of end stage liver disease. She was certified by specialists from two hospitals that her liver was beyond cure. She was discharged, sent home and to prepare for the inevitable eventuality. She went to our meeting on a wheelchair, prayed with and got healed. She is now married with five children and a fervent servant of the Lord.
World class hospital and world class medical specialists get their knowledge from the most high God but they have no guarantee that they can preserve lives. God gives and God takes away. A believer is not afraid of death because life does not end there.
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josie_L
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Thank you Jordan. I have a question though, do you think everything can be explained by science? And are miracles possible?
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arcio
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That is precisely why we have suicide bombers.
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JordanSRT
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I do believe everything can be answered by science. Just because we do not have all the answers now doesn’t mean that they are unanswerable or that a god is required to answer them. I do believe in miracles. I believe in miracles of science and medicine. I believe in the miracles of the human sprite and ingenuity. I do not however believe that a god is needed for them. All of the infinite possibilities you assign to god, I assign to you and to myself and all of humanity.
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JordanSRT
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Those are muslims, one of the other two of the big three Abrahamic religions. A little older than catholicism a lot more violent. I’m guessing you already know that though.
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josie_L
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Jordan, arcio has just been banned, and all his posts have been wiped away.
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JordanSRT
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The banning I can sort of understand, He didn’t come across as a pleasant person. Deleting his posts though I think is an injustice. Just because we don’t like what someone else says doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be allowed to say them. This is a forum to discuss “Non-Catholic” religious views is it not? his views where about as “Non-Catholic” as it gets. Wiping them from view seems cowardice to me. It makes me fear that I may be soon to follow!:angel1:
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