Why are atheists so unhappy?

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redhen said:
Those group conformity experiments can’t explain eyewitness testimony from solitary individuals, up to 40 miles away from the event.
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Thank you redhen for stating this, but I guess shredder must have missed that fact when I mentioned it to him earlier. God bless.
 
josie_L said:
I’m starting to think that conversing with atheists is such a waste time, I’m sorry, but I can’t help it, ultimately I don’t care whether you believe or not, but if this is your idea of research and in depth analysis of such things like “the dancing sun” or the “shroud of Turin” or the miracles of Lourdes or any other thing connected to God then don’t bother asking questions. Now did you actually go on the website I suggested?
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You don’t have to enter debates with atheists here if you don’t want to.

Of course I went on the website. I had a look through the F.A.Q. and various other parts, but I can’t find the evidence that Barrie Schwortz has reviewed.
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p.s. The shroud of Turin is believed to be the burial cloth of Jesus, you need to look up the information on the official website and you will find tons of reports, experiments and what not concerning the authenticity.
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If it was the burial cloth of Jesus, does it allow us to conclude anything more than the fact that Jesus was a real person?
redhen said:
Those group conformity experiments can’t explain eyewitness testimony from solitary individuals, up to 40 miles away from the event.
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What do we know about these solitary individuals? Did they know of the prediction beforehand? Was news allowed to travel for a few days before they testified that they saw it? What of their character?

At any rate, I think that some of the 70,000 claiming that they saw nothing is the most significant detail. If the sun literally moved, shouldn’t the entire world testify that they saw it? If an image of the sun was projected into the sky, and moved by divine power, shouldn’t all of the people there testify that they saw it? Yet some people, believers included, testify that they either saw only colors, or nothing at all. Was it then a vision, granted to some people, but not to others?
 
Shredderbeam said:
At any rate, I think that some of the 70,000 claiming that they saw nothing is the most significant detail. If the sun literally moved, shouldn’t the entire world testify that they saw it?
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Right, and it didn’t physically move.
If an image of the sun was projected into the sky, and moved by divine power, shouldn’t all of the people there testify that they saw it? Yet some people, believers included, testify that they either saw only colors, or nothing at all. Was it then a vision, granted to some people, but not to others?
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Theologically, that is a possibility. I think though everyone in the area observed that the ground and clothes dried (after an all night rain) in just a few minutes.
 
Shredderbeam said:
You don’t have to enter debates with atheists here if you don’t want to.
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I’m angry because it seems that all you atheists do is refute our claims with no attempt to understand us. You do realize you’re on a Catholic forum.
Of course I went on the website. I had a look through the F.A.Q. and various other parts, but I can’t find the evidence that Barrie Schwortz has reviewed.
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It’s not the evidence he reviewed, it’s the reports and experiments he compiled by other scientists (some even from NASA). I don’t understand how you didn’t see this.
If it was the burial cloth of Jesus, does it allow us to conclude anything more than the fact that Jesus was a real person?
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As I suspected you have not looked into the matter well enough otherwise you would have known the reasons (apart from it being the cloth of Jesus) why the shroud is so unique and inexplicable.
 
redhen said:
Theologically, that is a possibility. I think though everyone in the area observed that the ground and clothes dried (after an all night rain) in just a few minutes.
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From what I have read, some witnesses reported that, but not all.
josie_L said:
I’m angry because it seems that all you atheists do is refute our claims with no attempt to understand us. You do realize you’re on a Catholic forum.
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I can’t speak for other atheists, but I come here to constructively debate various conflicts between the Christian/atheistic worldviews. I’m not here to prove you wrong, I’m not here to insult you, or any of that. It may sound a bit cliché, but I really am here to learn.
It’s not the evidence he reviewed, it’s the reports and experiments he compiled by other scientists (some even from NASA). I don’t understand how you didn’t see this.

As I suspected you have not looked into the matter well enough otherwise you would have known the reasons (apart from it being the cloth of Jesus) why the shroud is so unique and inexplicable.
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The conclusions that I can find are that it’s not a fake, and it could have been the shroud that covered Jesus. It also seems to have worked as a sort of camera, capturing the negative of the man’s face. All right, that’s interesting, but where does that leave us?
 
CWBetts said:
Sorry, that is reason, not anything that can be measured by the senses. Try again. You must only use empirical evidence. This is why math is essentially a branch of philosophy. It is no coincidence that early mathemeticians were philosophers.

For the record, infinity is a number with no defined value.
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Actually that would be empirical. However…

I was actually joking, as i though you were?

Your question makes no sense.

In maths you can have open an closed sets ( , ) , ) ( , ] , ]. These sets may or may not have limits at either end. So if we define a set as having no limit then by its very nature the set is limitless. To represent this we introduce infinity, which is NOT a number. All it is, is an unbounded quantity.

So basically… You have a limitless set, you know it is limitless because you have defined the set as being limitless, or unbounded..

You then ask how do we know it is infinite, or unbounded. Well we know because we have an unbounded set.

Your question makes as much sense as, how do we know red is red.
 
josie_L said:
With an attitude like yours why do you even bother conversing with us, you know nothing about God.
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Thanks for that thought provoking response :rolleyes:, just when i though we had passed the bickering stage. Ah well… 🤷
 
redhen said:
I think the appropriate atheistic response would be that you would also have to reject the Flying Spaghetti Monster for lack of empirical data as well.

I don’t have certitude, I only have probability. Which is why I don’t call myself an atheist.
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No do i, prepare to be branded though.
 
RNRobert said:
Like he told me in an earlier post, he wants to save us from wasting our lives. :rolleyes:
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Actually i don’t want to save you, i want to save others from the likes of you. I have already turned one user from the absurdity of YEC to evolution. If that is all i do here i will consider it time well spent.
 
josie_L said:
Then these have been the best “wasted” days of my life. 😉
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"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. " - Carl Sagan
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Thanks for that thought provoking response :rolleyes:, just when i though we had passed the bickering stage. Ah well… 🤷
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Charlie, I’m serious I’m not trying to be mean (I would say the same thing to my brother if I had to), but how can you discuss God when you don’t even know him?

p.s. Don’t be mad at me. God bless. By the way what’s your name?
 
josie_L said:
Charlie, I’m serious I’m not trying to be mean (I would say the same thing to my brother if I had to), but how can you discuss God when you don’t even know him?

p.s. Don’t be mad at me. God bless. By the way what’s your name?
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if you know god tell me, what does he look like? How does his voice sound? Indeed you have no tangible concept of god beyond what’s contained in your bible, things you attribute to a divine presence (subjective manifestations of your mind), and attributes you are told about god by your church and peers.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. " - Carl Sagan
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Charlie how many times do I have to tell you faith and reason are not mutually exclusive, therefore I can believe in God and still pursue science if I wished. Charlie I do like you but you don’t need to save me from God, I love Him (with all my heart, mind and soul). :signofcross:
 
josie_L said:
Charlie how many times do I have to tell you faith and reason are not mutually exclusive, therefore I can believe in God and still pursue science if I wished. Charlie I do like you but you don’t need to save me from God, I love Him (with all my heart, mind and soul). :signofcross:
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I don’t think even Sagan meant to say otherwise … but we’re not talking about how compatible religion and science might be (I would say overall not very compatible … but there’s been many exceptions).
 
yankee_doodle said:
if you know god tell me, what does he look like? How does his voice sound? Indeed you have no tangible concept of god beyond what’s contained in your bible, things you attribute to a divine presence (subjective manifestations of your mind), and attributes you are told about god by your church and peers.
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He’s my father, my brother, and the Spirit that feels me with grace. He is love and mercy and all that is good. He gives me light and hope even in my darkest days, I cannot live without him.
 
yankee_doodle said:
I don’t think even Sagan meant to say otherwise … but we’re not talking about how compatible religion and science might be (I would say overall not very compatible … but there’s been many exceptions).
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The Catholic Church is very much interested in science it just held a meeting not so long ago (in March or May I believe) on science (many scientists were there even Stephen Hawking).
 
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