Why are atheists without hope?

[Nyx]

Can’t speak for all Atheists.

Yes, you are right- we live and it can be difficult to accept death (as in ceasing to exist). How difficult this is I guess it is very different from person to person- but there is a reason most humans are afraid (at least to a certain degree) of death. This explains why people from different cultures looked for something beyond death (life after death or reincarnation and so on). I personally believe that even the non-religious goals of being remembered by many persons, writing a book that would be read after generations, and so on are motivated, in part, from this fear of ceasing to be.

As for why I am not contend to believe in an afterlife? I never did believed- to be fair, this idea makes no sense to me. Our consciousness depends on our brain, brain damage can leave a person in a coma, in certain cases brain damage even if not fatal can lead to pretty dramatic personality changes (among many other disabilities), so why would you believe that after you are dead a form of consciousness could still be?

 

[Bradski]

I know plenty of atheists who pick a lottery ticket despite the chances are they will never win. They are willing to bet on the money, but not on their own immortality? Do they not want to be immortal? And if they do want to be immortal, why refuse to hope in that for which the evidence can only be forthcoming when they die?

But somebody always does win. There’s the couple’s picture in the paper. Grinning madly. Telling everyone about the boat he is going to buy, the holidays they are going to have, the house at the beach etc.

So people think - hey, I would love to be in their position. Not having the daily 9 to 5 grind. Get me a ticket!

Now the day somebody comes back from the dead and says: ‘Hey, Bradski, you’ll never guess where I’ve been…’ then I will want some of that to. I will buy a lottery ticket to everlasting life and hope my number comes up.

In fact, if I was as certain about heaven and hell as, say, you are, then I would literally spend every waking moment trying to do good. Trying to increase my chances of winning the celestial lottery. Because it would be the biggest prize of all. But what do we see Christians do who say they believe in the chance of going to heaven? They tell lies. They cheat. They commit adultery. They spend money on themselves rather than giving it to charity. They think evil thoughts. They masturbate. They use contraception. They have sex outside marriage. They support gay marriage. They hurt other people. They are jealous and mean spirited. They are cruel and selfish.

Just like me in fact.

So I see no difference in the way Christians act and the way that everyone else acts. I hear platitudes about loving one’s neighbour and turning the other cheek and do unto others ad nauseum. But I see very little evidence of this in the world.

Think about it. Everlasting life. Eternal bliss. To live forever in a state of constant happiness and fulfilment. And to get it, the clock starts…now. You have three score and ten to make sure your lottery ticket gets drawn. As I said, personally speaking, if I believed it I would spend every single minute of my life trying to make this world a better place. But I don’t believe it. So I make do with the time I have.

And what conclusion should I draw if I see everyone else acting just like me?

 

[Bradski]

But would I WANT everlasting life…?

Well, let me put it this way. Some people draw the short straw in life. For some people, life is a burden. A trial. A struggle. In fact, for the majority of people that is probably the case.

Me, I’m enjoying life at the moment. There are a lot more things going right than there are going wrong. So would I want this to go on? You bet I would. I’d be mad not to want that. But…

…tempus fugit. The clock keeps on ticking whatever I want. So I’m not exactly writing out a bucket list but there is a growing realisation that there is limited time. When I wore a much younger man’s clothes I thought, just like all young people, that there was enough time to do everything. Now I know that that is not the case. Some things that I would have liked to have done I now know I’ll never be able to.

So would I hope to live forever? Well, I would like this weekend to go on forever. A sort of Groundhog weekend. Or maybe a Groundhog year where every January 1 I wake up the same age as I was a year ago with the same opportunities for that year. Maybe all charitable work one year and pure hedonism the next.

Yeah, if I thought that was a possibility, I’d hope for that.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

But somebody always does win. There’s the couple’s picture in the paper. Grinning madly. Telling everyone about the boat he is going to buy, the holidays they are going to have, the house at the beach etc.

So people think - hey, I would love to be in their position. Not having the daily 9 to 5 grind. Get me a ticket!

Now the day somebody comes back from the dead and says: ‘Hey, Bradski, you’ll never guess where I’ve been…’ then I will want some of that to. I will buy a lottery ticket to everlasting life and hope my number comes up.

In fact, if I was as certain about heaven and hell as, say, you are, then I would literally spend every waking moment trying to do good. Trying to increase my chances of winning the celestial lottery. Because it would be the biggest prize of all. But what do we see Christians do who say they believe in the chance of going to heaven? They tell lies. They cheat. They commit adultery. They spend money on themselves rather than giving it to charity. They think evil thoughts. They masturbate. They use contraception. They have sex outside marriage. They support gay marriage. They hurt other people. They are jealous and mean spirited. They are cruel and selfish.

Just like me in fact.

So I see no difference in the way Christians act and the way that everyone else acts. I hear platitudes about loving one’s neighbour and turning the other cheek and do unto others ad nauseum. But I see very little evidence of this in the world.

Think about it. Everlasting life. Eternal bliss. To live forever in a state of constant happiness and fulfilment. And to get it, the clock starts…now. You have three score and ten to make sure your lottery ticket gets drawn. As I said, personally speaking, if I believed it I would spend every single minute of my life trying to make this world a better place. But I don’t believe it. So I make do with the time I have.

And what conclusion should I draw if I see everyone else acting just like me?

I don’t know… the daily grind is not that bad. What is wrong with being content with your lot in life, and finding the beauty in whatever God handed you?

The grass is always greener is usually a bunch of bull.

But three score and ten is a very small number of years. and remember, Bradski, you can’t take it with you. And even if you won the lottery and could pass it on to your kids, would that really be what you want to leave as your legacy? I’m sure your kids would rather have your love and your attention and, if possible, your faith in God.

To hope for money seems like a very temporal, shallow desire. To hope for everlasting life and peace - not so much!

 

[Bradski]

I don’t know… the daily grind is not that bad. What is wrong with being content with your lot in life, and finding the beauty in whatever God handed you?

I am. And if God is responsible then He was in a pretty good mood when He gave me my share.

But where is the evidence that people are desperate to win this heavenly lottery? If you really thought there was a chance to get to heaven then the day wouldn’t be long enough to cram in all the good worke you’t want to do.

There’s no evidence for this whatsoever. So the conclusion that I have to draw is that either people do not really believe in a heaven or, more likely, they already think, simply by paying lip service to Christianity, they will get a free pass in any case.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I am. And if God is responsible then He was in a pretty good mood when He gave me my share.

But where is the evidence that people are desperate to win this heavenly lottery? If you really thought there was a chance to get to heaven then the day wouldn’t be long enough to cram in all the good worke you’t want to do.

There’s no evidence for this whatsoever. So the conclusion that I have to draw is that either people do not really believe in a heaven or, more likely, they already think, simply by paying lip service to Christianity, they will get a free pass in any case.

Hoping for a billion bucks and hoping for life after death seems to be a completely different type of hope. Hoping for money on earth is very materialistic, it can only buy things in this life. Hoping to die and be reunited with loved ones is a kind of hope that is eternal. I am sorry your hopes are so grounded in the present. What are you about 40? That means you only have 30 more years to live on earth. Will winning that monetary lottery satisfy you? Is that all you can hope for?

 

[Bradski]

Well I am sorry that you have such a bad opinion of your fellow man. I wonder why?

Have you never lied? Have you never ever cheated? Have you never thought ill of someone? Have you never been lazy? Have you never hated? Do you know anyone at all who has never done any of these things?

The constant refrain from Christians is that each of them gladly admits to being a sinner. To not living up to Christ’s standards. Oh, the angst. The humility. The need for confession.

It doesn’t appear to me that anyone is trying very hard at all to get the nod from St Peter.

 

[Bradski]

Hoping for a billion bucks and hoping for life after death seems to be a completely different type of hope. Hoping for money on earth is very materialistic, it can only buy things in this life.

I don’t buy lottery tickets. I’m very happy with what I have.

And of course people don’t like losing loved ones. Of course people would rather not die. There has been the hope for a happy-ever-after ever since we came out of the trees. I’m sure that you knew that. There isn’t a religion that doesn’t offer it as part of the deal.

I just don’t see any evidence, at all, of anyone really making too much of an effort in putting in the hard yards in the here and now to get to the hereafter.

 

[CuriousMike]

Have you never lied? Have you never ever cheated? Have you never thought ill of someone? Have you never been lazy? Have you never hated? Do you know anyone at all who has never done any of these things?

The constant refrain from Christians is that each of them gladly admits to being a sinner. To not living up to Christ’s standards. Oh, the angst. The humility. The need for confession.

It doesn’t appear to me that anyone is trying very hard at all to get the nod from St Peter.

These points prove why God had to sacrifice his Son Jesus. After the fall, no human could ever be perfect again, having the knowledge of evil. If one considers the history of the Israelites, it really is just a downward spiral, with a few positive blips delaying the process.

Jesus doesn’t make us not sin, rather He encourages not to if we truly love him. I think if you actually met a truly devout Brother, Sister, Priest or lay person - you would find they are most aware of sin, and its effects on people. Such people see themselves as the worst kind of sinner, and completely incapable of remedying the issue themselves. It is this humility and acceptance of how bad things really are that allows them to grow so much as Christians.

 

[Bradski]

It is this humility and acceptance of how bad things really are that allows them to grow so much as Christians.

Well I could use a little less humility and an explanation as to why people seem to make no effort whatsoever to gain the keys to the kingdom.

The hope appears to be more: ‘I hope I can get away with this and still get to heaven’.

The very fact that Catholics need to go to confession shows that they aren’t trying hard enough. And when the prize is eternal bliss, that baffles me betond any measure of comprehension.

Seems you don’t have to be good. All you need to do is confess to being bad. What a system…

 

[CuriousMike]

Well I could use a little less humility and an explanation as to why people seem to make no effort whatsoever to gain the keys to the kingdom.

The hope appears to be more: ‘I hope I can get away with this and still get to heaven’.

The very fact that Catholics need to go to confession shows that they aren’t trying hard enough. And when the prize is eternal bliss, that baffles me betond any measure of comprehension.

Seems you don’t have to be good. All you need to do is confess to being bad. What a system…

“I can get away with this and still get to heaven” is called PRESUMPTION, that is ASSUMING that you will be forgiven. Believe it or not, that too happens to be a mortal sin.

The very fact that we need confession does nothing to say that we aren’t trying hard enough. It indicates that we are incapable of attaining Jesus’ level of perfection.
The grip of sin is such that a lot of people are quite content living in it, rather than trying as hard as they can to abandon it. They are happy confessing the same things over and over, rather than making real genuine attempts at changing their lives. Some might call these Lukewarm, I might say its that, and simply not enough faith-education. The Priest cannot tell you ever last paragraph in a year’s worth of homilies, much less have everyone hear and/or remember.

Most people perhaps don’t try hard because they haven’t really been taught properly about the consequences of sin. They don’t know why they should do anything, much less how. It comes down to a lack of instruction in so called “Catholic” schools, in Catechesis classes, from Parents and perhaps from the pulpit itself.
I don’t know about anyone else, but it would be nice if a bit of fire and brimstone came from the pulpit every so often. Our Priest yesterday evening for Divine Mercy mentioned Indulgences - I was quite amazed, never heard a Priest actually MENTION this. Then he went and explained the history of them (i.e. paying money for an indulgence) was a “buy your way into heaven.”

Getting back on topic - another Priest (our local Vice-Rector of the Diocesan Seminary) said several weeks ago, despite possessing everything needed for eternal life, we are stuck LONGING to live a wicked life. We actually feel as though we’d be better of sinning sometimes. Yes, I tend to agree with this. Maybe you’d call it the Devil, or maybe you’d say its just a bad conscience, but “just once more won’t hurt” is the bane of many people’s existence.

I hope others can come along and try and explain this better. I’m still relatively new (< 2yrs) into my faith journey, and don’t think I’ve really done this justice.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

“I can get away with this and still get to heaven” is called PRESUMPTION, that is ASSUMING that you will be forgiven. Believe it or not, that too happens to be a mortal sin.

The very fact that we need confession does nothing to say that we aren’t trying hard enough. It indicates that we are incapable of attaining Jesus’ level of perfection.
The grip of sin is such that a lot of people are quite content living in it, rather than trying as hard as they can to abandon it. They are happy confessing the same things over and over, rather than making real genuine attempts at changing their lives. Some might call these Lukewarm, I might say its that, and simply not enough faith-education. The Priest cannot tell you ever last paragraph in a year’s worth of homilies, much less have everyone hear and/or remember.

Most people perhaps don’t try hard because they haven’t really been taught properly about the consequences of sin. They don’t know why they should do anything, much less how. It comes down to a lack of instruction in so called “Catholic” schools, in Catechesis classes, from Parents and perhaps from the pulpit itself.
I don’t know about anyone else, but it would be nice if a bit of fire and brimstone came from the pulpit every so often. Our Priest yesterday evening for Divine Mercy mentioned Indulgences - I was quite amazed, never heard a Priest actually MENTION this. Then he went and explained the history of them (i.e. paying money for an indulgence) was a “buy your way into heaven.”

Getting back on topic - another Priest (our local Vice-Rector of the Diocesan Seminary) said several weeks ago, despite possessing everything needed for eternal life, we are stuck LONGING to live a wicked life. We actually feel as though we’d be better of sinning sometimes. Yes, I tend to agree with this. Maybe you’d call it the Devil, or maybe you’d say its just a bad conscience, but “just once more won’t hurt” is the bane of many people’s existence.

I hope others can come along and try and explain this better. I’m still relatively new (< 2yrs) into my faith journey, and don’t think I’ve really done this justice.

Amen - you are doing great on your faith journey. In fact, people who are new to it often explain things much better than older ones.

You are right, faith is not simple, nor is it easy. Some people presume that people of the faith have no doubts and never sin. Nothing could be further from the truth. Life is a struggle no matter how much faith you have. But to hang on to the belief in God and to try to live the path of Jesus is not an unworthy endeavor!

 

[oldcelt]

Yes but do you hope for these? Or are you just resigned to the fact that Science and other religions only offer these options?

Do I hope for then? Not really…if I go out like a light bulb, I’m fine with that. The other possibilities are merely interesting…although…I do love dreaming.

John

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Yes, atheism does mean non-belief in a God. That’s what Dawkins, Hitch, and the rest are–non-believers in a god, they don’t believe a god exists.
BUT, they are also not so rigid in their beliefs that if new, solid evidence for something arose, they wouldn’t change them. Both have said that if solid evidence that a god existed presented itself, they would then believe it.

The definitions of atheist/agnostic seem very blurry to me.
Dawkins/Hitch et al are “sure” that they don’t believe in a god, which makes them atheists. But that doesn’t mean they can’t change their mind about it (well, Hitch is gone now…)

For the Catholics on this forum who have said they have doubts about God sometimes or often…does that make them agnostic?
Calling themselves Catholic and doing the sacraments while having doubts…that sounds non-comittal to me.

My friend totally believes in an afterlife, yup…

I suppose you are right. I guess it all boils down to faith. An agnostic or an atheist needs to have proof by purely by human reason, but a believer needs faith in the unseen.

Everyone has doubts now and then, I think it would be dishonest to say they didn’t. But in my heart I know God is there and is guiding me through my life.

Maybe we will all get what we hope for in the end.

]

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Do I hope for then? Not really…if I go out like a light bulb, I’m fine with that. The other possibilities are merely interesting…although…I do love dreaming.

John

I like dreaming too, but I also like waking up.

 

[oldcelt]

I don’t think you hope in the afterlife, do you?

I only see two possibilities, and I think they are not likely. Do I hope for it…not particularly. However, it is still a curiosity with me.

John

 

[JewishCatholic]

As a former atheist, I disagree. Atheism is definitely a choice. We are freely choosing not to believe. No one can force you not to believe. You have to make that choice on your own, and there is nothing deterministic about it, since atheism is a mortal sin and we are never forced to sin.

Sir with all due respect you were not a fomer atheist! You are stealing valor, and using that to bolster you’re arguement. If your atheist, gay, or believe in a different religion and are brought up in a religous househould it is very diffiicult. You’re family may disown you or ruin your life if you open your heart. I have seen this several times. Being an Atheist is not a mortal sin. The catholic catcheism cleary states that their are people put on this earth who cannot believe in God. As long as they have tried in good conscience, and are a good person I dont see why you want to send them to hell. even if they havent tried I believe God would rather have a man feed the poor, tend to the sick, and practice good works then believe in him and do little good works thinking they will automatically get to heaven because of it.

 

[JewishCatholic]

How can they hope for an afterlife if they do not believe in an afterlife? I think that would imply believing in God - or how do you see it??? Most atheists I know think that this life is it. What do your atheist friends think?

I don’t mean they don’t miss their loved ones, I just mean they don’t think they will see them again after they die. I am very confused by your answer. Do you know atheists that believe in an afterlife - and please elaborate on how they see it.

I also dont believe the war in syria will end. Do I hope it ends? I sure do!

An Athiest may say (not all)

I don’t believe in God or heaven. If i’m wrong do i hope I get into heaven? yes

 

[JewishCatholic]

I become very frustrated with my fellow catholics sometimes. It’s easy for us to laugh at non belivers and alienate them. “They are without hope” “They don’t miss their loved ones” “They are always commiting mortal sins” “They are bad people”. I have heard this many times and seems to be the general view. Lets remember folks God has a plan for all of us. Its not up to you to question him and sneer at his beloved children whether they’re catholic, jewish, or a non believer. Jesus died for all of our sins, not just Catholics. Please remember that the next time you post such heartless ignorance. Get to know atheists. Learn their life experiences. It can go a long way instead of bathing in self righteousness

 

[inocente]

Since hope springs eternals in all of us, hope for the best that can possibly happen to us, even when the evidence is not there that the best is definitely going to happen to us, the question arises: why do Christians choose to hope and atheists choose not to hope?

Your thoughts?

“Christians who are afraid to build bridges and prefer to build walls are Christians who are not sure of their faith, not sure of Jesus Christ” - Pope Francis, catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2013/pope-says-evangelists-build-bridges-not-walls.cfm