Why are atheists without hope?

[EmperorNapoleon]

Calling something baseless and false does not prove it is baseless and false. Where is your evidence that there is no afterlife to hope in?

As Hitchens said, “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” You spoke of the best possible outcome, possibility is only established by evidence, and there is no evidence of an afterlife.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Being an Atheist is not a mortal sin.

From the catechism of the Catholic Church:

2140 Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the first commandment.

Do you say the sin against the first commandment is not a mortal sin?

Fine.

Just don’t say the Catechism agrees with you.

 

[JewishCatholic]

From the catechism of the Catholic Church:

2140 Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the first commandment.

Do you say the sin against the first commandment is not a mortal sin?

Fine.

Just don’t say the Catechism agrees with you.

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience." -Pope Francis

You’re the one with the narrow minded view of the Catechism my slippery friend.

 

[Bradski]

From the catechism of the Catholic Church:

2140 Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the first commandment.

God: OK, let’s see. Bradski. Male. Married. Two kids. Australian. Hi. How are you?
Bradski: Good. I’m good. Well, apart from being dead.
God: Yes, sorry about that. Time was up, I’m afraid.
Bradski: No worries. Had to come sooner or later…
God: Yes, that’s a good attitude. Now, it says here you were an atheist.
Bradski: Well, not now obviously. But I was back then.
God: So did you reject me?
Bradski: Well no. I can hardly reject something in which I don’t believe.
God: Yes, yes. Good point. I can see the logic in that. OK. Good. But did you deny I existed?
Bradski: No. I used to tell anyone who listened that I simply thought that the arguments for your existence weren’t sufficient for me to believe in you.
God: Mmm. I’ve seen some of the arguments myself. Can’t say I blame you. I find it hard to believe I exist myself after reading some of the stuff that people post.
Bradski: So what happens now.
God: Well, there were a couple of things back in your younger day…
Bradski: Ahem…well we were all young once, weren’t we.
God: Not exactly, no. Not all of us. But look, I can’t see anything that would prevent me giving you the keys to Everlasting Life, so…I guess it’s welcome to heaven!
Bradski: Gee, that’s great. How wrong I was. Hey, is that my dog…?

 

[CuriousMike]

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience." -Pope Francis

You’re the one with the narrow minded view of the Catechism my slippery friend.

You have only picked a very small part of the quote, and one that was taken out of context by the sensationalist media.
There is a 4 page discussion on this topic (with links to the article article): forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=822377

 

[Charlemagne_III]

God: OK, let’s see. Bradski. Male. Married. Two kids. Australian. Hi. How are you?
Bradski: Good. I’m good. Well, apart from being dead.
God: Yes, sorry about that. Time was up, I’m afraid.
Bradski: No worries. Had to come sooner or later…
God: Yes, that’s a good attitude. Now, it says here you were an atheist.
Bradski: Well, not now obviously. But I was back then.
God: So did you reject me?
Bradski: Well no. I can hardly reject something in which I don’t believe.
God: Yes, yes. Good point. I can see the logic in that. OK. Good. But did you deny I existed?
Bradski: No. I used to tell anyone who listened that I simply thought that the arguments for your existence weren’t sufficient for me to believe in you.
God: Mmm. I’ve seen some of the arguments myself. Can’t say I blame you. I find it hard to believe I exist myself after reading some of the stuff that people post.
Bradski: So what happens now.
God: Well, there were a couple of things back in your younger day…
Bradski: Ahem…well we were all young once, weren’t we.
God: Not exactly, no. Not all of us. But look, I can’t see anything that would prevent me giving you the keys to Everlasting Life, so…I guess it’s welcome to heaven!
Bradski: Gee, that’s great. How wrong I was. Hey, is that my dog…?

This is the kind of post I don’t bother to answer any more.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

You’re the one with the narrow minded view of the Catechism my slippery friend.

You appear to have a slippery view of the Bible.

“Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father.” Matthew 10:32-33

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned.” Mark 16:16

“Fools say in their hearts, ‘There is no God.’” Psalms 14:1

“If we have died with him we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him. But if we deny him he will deny us.” 2nd Timothy 2:11-12

 

[Charlemagne_III]

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience." -Pope Francis

I agree. Follow your conscience, and your conscience should tell you it is wrong to reject God.

If it doesn’t, you should ask yourself why it is right to reject God.

And I’m sure you are not arguing that Pope Francis is defending atheism.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

I agree. Follow your conscience, and your conscience should tell you it is wrong to reject God.

If it doesn’t, you should ask yourself why it is right to reject God.

And I’m sure you are not arguing that Pope Francis is defending atheism.

Your usage of “reject” showcases a fundamental difference. From your point of view it is a rejection of something real, a real being. Why would it be wrong to reject that which one does not believe exist?

Your usage implies one believes in but chooses to defy God, imo.

 

[JewishCatholic]

You appear to have a slippery view of the Bible.

“Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father.” Matthew 10:32-33

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned.” Mark 16:16

“Fools say in their hearts, ‘There is no God.’” Psalms 14:1

“If we have died with him we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him. But if we deny him he will deny us.” 2nd Timothy 2:11-12

No it is not essential to even be christain to make into heaven.

Let me remind you of the story of the good samaritan.

Think about it this way. If 10 Catholics walk past a dying man in the streets with their noses in the air basking in self rightouesness and let him die. There excuse? we already believe in God, we automatically get into heaven. Some other responses are we dont take care of this scum.

An Atheist feeds the man and takes him to a doctor and pays for his medical bills, and helps him get a job. His response: It was the right thing to do.

Who do you think Jesus rewarded with eternal life?

Faith is nice, but Jesus made it clear good works, compassion, and charity are the most important factors for Salvation. Remember Jesus died for all of our sins, not just Catholics.

“The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: We will meet one another in heaven.” -pope francis

I plead with you to to read the bible,
For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’…
When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40"The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels
, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Jesus clearly is saying that those who do good will be let in to the kingdom of heaven and those who do wicked will be cursed out and thrown into hell.

Blessed be the lord

John 3:16

 

[CHRISTINE77]

No it is not essential to even be christain to make into heaven.

Let me remind you of the story of the good samaritan.

Think about it this way. If 10 Catholics walk past a dying man in the streets with their noses in the air basking in self rightouesness and let him die. There excuse? we already believe in God, we automatically get into heaven. Some other responses are we dont take care of this scum.

An Atheist feeds the man and takes him to a doctor and pays for his medical bills, and helps him get a job. His response: It was the right thing to do.

Who do you think Jesus rewarded with eternal life?

Faith is nice, but Jesus made it clear good works, compassion, and charity are the most important factors for Salvation. Remember Jesus died for all of our sins, not just Catholics.

“The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: We will meet one another in heaven.” -pope francis

I plead with you to to read the bible,
For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’…
When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40"The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ 41"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels
, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Jesus clearly is saying that those who do good will be let in to the kingdom of heaven and those who do wicked will be cursed out and thrown into hell.

Blessed be the lord

John 3:16

Amen. Faith without works is dead as quoted from James 2:14-26
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my** works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also**

 

[JewishCatholic]

Amen. Faith without works is dead as quoted from James 2:14-26
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my** works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also**
.
Jesus DIRECTLY stated that those who lived like him i.e fed the poor, cared for the sick did the same for him regardlses of beliefs. And those people would make it into heaven

In your view do the Catholics in my scenario make it into heaven while the Atheist is condenmed to hell. When the Atheists is judged by God, He will be the one who reaches eternal life.

 

[Marie5890]

Since hope springs eternals in all of us, hope for the best that can possibly happen to us, even when the evidence is not there that the best is definitely going to happen to us, the question arises: why do Christians choose to hope and atheists choose not to hope?

Your thoughts?

I think you are falling into the trap of stereotyping atheists.
I know many atheists who are very comfortable with the idea that there is no god. It doesn’t trouble them in the least. So, to say they are without hope doesn’t really fit.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

.
Jesus DIRECTLY stated that those who lived like him i.e fed the poor, cared for the sick did the same for him regardlses of beliefs. And those people would make it into heaven

In your view do the Catholics in my scenario make it into heaven while the Atheist is condenmed to hell. When the Atheists is judged by God, He will be the one who reaches eternal life.

Yes, I think anyone who follows the path of Jesus, (whether he or she knows of Jesus or not, will make it to heaven). I believe that God is merciful and he sees into the hearts of people and can see their intentions and their acts. A person who is Christian in name only will be judged harshly. Faith needs to be accompanied by action. No one will escape the all-seeing eyes of God, whether they believe in Him or not. As Jung had carved above his front door: “Called or not called to, God will be there.”

However, I think we are off-topic. The question is whether atheists have hope. I guess there are varying degrees of atheists. Some are pure materialists who do not hope for God or the afterlife, and then there are some who do. In any case, all people have hope for something, whether it is in this life or the next.

 

[PRmerger]

No it is not essential to even be christain to make into heaven.

Well, this needs to be understood with some nuance.

IF someone is in heaven, it is because he embraced Christ and His Body, the Catholic Church. Either formally or informally.

 

[Bradski]

Well, this needs to be understood with some nuance.

IF someone is in heaven, it is because he embraced Christ and His Body, the Catholic Church. Either formally or informally.

Is this a fact? It almost seems like wishful thinking.

 

[PRmerger]

Is this a fact? It almost seems like wishful thinking.

I think you make an error in which you presume that something that is hopeful is, logically, false.

Imagine if a husband says, “I got my wife flowers today; she will be more inclined to be really loving to me tonight…”

does that mean necessarily that he’s going o get spurned in the bedroom that night?

 

[Austere]

Hope isn’t necessarily linked to God, nor should it be. To paint atheists with the brush of hopelessness is rather disingenuous; if you were to put an openly optimistic person and a brooding person in a room, which would you be inclined to believe is the atheist and which is the Catholic? I could imagine many people saying the atheists would be the optimist and the Catholic the pessimist. What does the atheist have that would inhibit their capacity to hope? The concept of an afterlife where the greater majority of humanity are punished eternally? Not likely. An atheist can hope for something greater than the theistic person because they can hope for the best of things without having the pressure of believing the worst of things could happen to them.

 

[oldcelt]

Hope isn’t necessarily linked to God, nor should it be. To paint atheists with the brush of hopelessness is rather disingenuous; if you were to put an openly optimistic person and a brooding person in a room, which would you be inclined to believe is the atheist and which is the Catholic? I could imagine many people saying the atheists would be the optimist and the Catholic the pessimist. What does the atheist have that would inhibit their capacity to hope? The concept of an afterlife where the greater majority of humanity are punished eternally? Not likely. An atheist can hope for something greater than the theistic person because they can hope for the best of things without having the pressure of believing the worst of things could happen to them.

Nicely put,

John

 

[Austere]

Nicely put,

John

Thank you, the very same analysis could apply to the deist as well. A Catholic’s faith could be impeded by simply asking this question; for everyone one person received into heaven, how many more are thrown into hell?