Why are BISHOPS DIVIDED over SPPX?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Exporter
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Exporter

Guest
unavoce.org/father_schmidberger_march12.htm

The site above written by a Priest summarises negotioations between Bishops and JP II.

My question is this: Why are some of the laity so hard set against the Latin Mass. If it (the Latin Mass) was good enough for 1700 years, why is it wrong now?🙂
 
Exporter said:
unavoce.org/father_schmidberger_march12.htm

The site above written by a Priest summarises negotioations between Bishops and JP II.

My question is this: Why are some of the laity so hard set against the Latin Mass. If it (the Latin Mass) was good enough for 1700 years, why is it wrong now?🙂

For one thing, the Latin Mass you are speaking of has not been around in its presnt form for 1700 years.
 
40.png
ByzCath:
For one thing, the Latin Mass you are speaking of has not been around in its presnt form for 1700 years.
Okay Byzcath, we follow Roman rite tradition that the Roman Rite is the oldest and most venerable rite in the church. Take your case to DOm Gueranger RIP or Adrian Fortescue RIP.
 
40.png
katolik:
Okay Byzcath, we follow Roman rite tradition that the Roman Rite is the oldest and most venerable rite in the church. Take your case to DOm Gueranger RIP or Adrian Fortescue RIP.
I won’t argue on which rite is oldest as it doesn’t matter.

The Mass of today is of that rite. The Trad Latin Mass is not even the Mass of Quo Primum as there have been additions to it.

And I must add, Jesus didn’t speak Latin.

The form of the Mass is a matter of discipline and can and does change.
 
Exporter said:
unavoce.org/father_schmidberger_march12.htm

The site above written by a Priest summarises negotioations between Bishops and JP II.

My question is this: Why are some of the laity so hard set against the Latin Mass. If it (the Latin Mass) was good enough for 1700 years, why is it wrong now?🙂

*But we also think there may be human reasons – that the Pope currently sees the SSPX as a spot on his pontificate (we guess this). That his most faithful sons he has cast out of the Church. Does he want to go like this to eternity? Perhaps others in Rome think that the Pope has such a moral authority that a solution must be reached with this pontificate, because no one knows who might take over (another guess). Others, such as Cardinal Ratzinger, says things in the Church are so bad that we need urgently a contra force in the Church that will add stability and fight abuses. They are therefore in a hurry because of health of Pope. They on their side wanted to finish these negotiations by Easter. Rome is in a hurry; we are not. *

This is a quote I copied and pasted. The whole article reads like an exercise in “How to Be Spiritually Proud.” That’s one thing that makes me uncomfortable about them and other “rad trads,” for want of a better handle: the “more orthodox than thou” attitude. I understand that there are abuses of the NO Mass, but only because I’ve been informed of them on this site. In nearly 17 years as a Catholic, I don’t really think I’ve seen any. Maybe I’ve just had good priests. I think if they had their way, the Indult would be for the NO and the normative Mass would be the TLM and that they cannot wait to rub it in the faces of us “liberals” (not a theologically liberal bone in my body). I would really hate to see that. I’ve heard tell of abuses in the TLM, too, priests glancing at their watch after a rushed mass and saying “21 minutes! Let’s see Father McGuillicudy top that!” and the laity saying the rosary…during Mass! On the other hand, perhaps we, in the American church, have been asking for this, in just the sort of way our mothers once said,“Are you asking for a smack in the pie hole?” We must have the most lax or inherently disobedient hierarchy in all of Christendom…maybe the most morally corrupt, too, given the abuse of those poor children. If they had held the ship steady on course, there would be less of a hue and cry for the “good old days.”
 
Why do you think Traditionalists are old fogeys who yearn for the 1950’s Catholicism? Sheesh… I’m 16[sixteen] and somehow I am a incoherent fogey grandpa? Argh

JKirkLVNV said:
But we also think there may be human reasons – that the Pope currently sees the SSPX as a spot on his pontificate (we guess this). That his most faithful sons he has cast out of the Church. Does he want to go like this to eternity? Perhaps others in Rome think that the Pope has such a moral authority that a solution must be reached with this pontificate, because no one knows who might take over (another guess). Others, such as Cardinal Ratzinger, says things in the Church are so bad that we need urgently a contra force in the Church that will add stability and fight abuses. They are therefore in a hurry because of health of Pope. They on their side wanted to finish these negotiations by Easter. Rome is in a hurry; we are not.

This is a quote I copied and pasted. The whole article reads like an exercise in “How to Be Spiritually Proud.” That’s one thing that makes me uncomfortable about them and other “rad trads,” for want of a better handle: the “more orthodox than thou” attitude. I understand that there are abuses of the NO Mass, but only because I’ve been informed of them on this site. In nearly 17 years as a Catholic, I don’t really think I’ve seen any. Maybe I’ve just had good priests. I think if they had their way, the Indult would be for the NO and the normative Mass would be the TLM and that they cannot wait to rub it in the faces of us “liberals” (not a theologically liberal bone in my body). I would really hate to see that. I’ve heard tell of abuses in the TLM, too, priests glancing at their watch after a rushed mass and saying “21 minutes! Let’s see Father McGuillicudy top that!” and the laity saying the rosary…during Mass! On the other hand, perhaps we, in the American church, have been asking for this, in just the sort of way our mothers once said,“Are you asking for a smack in the pie hole?” We must have the most lax or inherently disobedient hierarchy in all of Christendom…maybe the most morally corrupt, too, given the abuse of those poor children. If they had held the ship steady on course, there would be less of a hue and cry for the “good old days.”
 
40.png
ByzCath:
I won’t argue on which rite is oldest as it doesn’t matter.

The Mass of today is of that rite. The Trad Latin Mass is not even the Mass of Quo Primum as there have been additions to it.

And I must add, Jesus didn’t speak Latin.

The form of the Mass is a matter of discipline and can and does change.
Jesus didn’t speak Greek,Ruthenian, Slavonic, or Armenian, so what?
I don’t understand you byzcath. You are a Rutenian Catholic, but you stick your nose into Roman affairs. If I did what you do here on byzcath, i would be banned lickety split. Let us mind our own Roman Latin Catholic dung heap thank you.
 
40.png
katolik:
Jesus didn’t speak Greek,Ruthenian, Slavonic, or Armenian, so what?
I don’t understand you byzcath. You are a Rutenian Catholic, but you stick your nose into Roman affairs. If I did what you do here on byzcath, i would be banned lickety split. Let us mind our own Roman Latin Catholic dung heap thank you.
whoa buddy, take it ease dude
 
Objectively speaking, could anyone confirm the letter on Una Voce’s website from Msgr. Camille Perl stating that in the strict sense, one can fulfill Sunday obligation by visiting an SSPX chapel as authentic? How does one define “strict sense?” As well, is the story about the SSPX priest celebrating the Verona Indult authentic? unavoce-ve.it/06-03-39.htm
 
Exporter said:
unavoce.org/father_schmidberger_march12.htm

The site above written by a Priest summarises negotioations between Bishops and JP II.

My question is this: Why are some of the laity so hard set against the Latin Mass. If it (the Latin Mass) was good enough for 1700 years, why is it wrong now?🙂

I don’t have a problem with the TLM. What I gather from some of those who are opposed to it, they believe it breeds schism, dissention, etc. I don’t think this comes from the TLM itself but from many of the people who attend it who, I believe, do more harm to the spread of the TLM than the other side of the coin. Then, of course, you’ve got the complete liberals who don’t really even want the Pauline Mass. They just want to do things as they want to be “inclusive” which is a goofy argument.
 
40.png
katolik:
Why do you think Traditionalists are old fogeys who yearn for the 1950’s Catholicism? Sheesh… I’m 16[sixteen] and somehow I am a incoherent fogey grandpa? Argh
I do not imply that you are a fogey. I’m glad to know that you are 16, I think better of you for that.
 
40.png
EddieArent:
Objectively speaking, could anyone confirm the letter on Una Voce’s website from Msgr. Camille Perl stating that in the strict sense, one can fulfill Sunday obligation by visiting an SSPX chapel as authentic? How does one define “strict sense?” As well, is the story about the SSPX priest celebrating the Verona Indult authentic? (unavoce-ve.it/06-03-39.htm))
I’m quite confident that Msgr. Perle sent out that letter HOWEVER what they don’t show you is the follow up letter where he states that this permission was given to a specific person for a specific circumstance which we’ll probably never know since the original inquiry was never made public which is very suspicious. The request could have been something similar to “It is impossible for me to get transportation to an approved Catholic Church for x, y or z reason. There is a SSPX chapel next door to my house. Can I go here to fulfill my Sunday obligation or should I just skip all together if there still is no possible way for me to get to an approved Mass?”

Scroll down to see Msgr. Perl’s response on this page:
home.earthlink.net/~grossklas/davies_schism_and_obligation.htm
 
40.png
bear06:
I’m quite confident that Msgr. Perle sent out that letter HOWEVER what they don’t show you is the follow up letter where he states that this permission was given to a specific person for a specific circumstance which we’ll probably never know since the original inquiry was never made public which is very suspicious. The request could have been something similar to “It is impossible for me to get transportation to an approved Catholic Church for x, y or z reason. There is a SSPX chapel next door to my house. Can I go here to fulfill my Sunday obligation or should I just skip all together if there still is no possible way for me to get to an approved Mass?”

Scroll down to see Msgr. Perl’s response on this page:
home.earthlink.net/~grossklas/davies_schism_and_obligation.htm
Our bishop specifically cautioned us against the local SSPX chapel.
 
And I must add, Jesus didn’t speak Latin.
That’s at best, an unproven assertion.

It’s most likely that Jesus did speak Latin, as He interviewed with Pilate, and Latin was the official language of the empire and the one which government business was conducted.
 
40.png
Kielbasi:
That’s at best, an unproven assertion.

It’s most likely that Jesus did speak Latin, as He interviewed with Pilate, and Latin was the official language of the empire and the one which government business was conducted.
I bet he spoke Latin, too! I also bet it didn’t play a huge role in the Last Supper, the JEWISH PASSOVER supper, when He was sitting down at the table with 12 other JEWS. I’m kind of betting Latin didn’t loom large in that particular setting.
 
I also bet it didn’t play a huge role in the Last Supper, the JEWISH PASSOVER supper
You’re probably right, the prayers at the Last Supper were most likely in Hebrew, the liturgical language of the Jewish people.
 
40.png
katolik:
Jesus didn’t speak Greek,Ruthenian, Slavonic, or Armenian, so what?
I don’t understand you byzcath. You are a Rutenian Catholic, but you stick your nose into Roman affairs. If I did what you do here on byzcath, i would be banned lickety split. Let us mind our own Roman Latin Catholic dung heap thank you.
Snotty snotty!
 
O.K., to keep it simple: There are at least four Bishops who support SSPX Masses who have been admitted into a private meeting with John Paul II. Some Cardinals say there will be additional statements made by Easter.

I am looking in my St. Jposeph’s Missal trying to find which Mass is in this Missal. It was printed in 1959. The Ordinary of the Mass ( the unchangable parts of the Mass) It is The Mass of the Catachumens. One page is English and the other is Latin.

The way one poster wrote one would think that the SSPX Mass is something newly created. Is that true?
 
Which bishops support the SSPX? As I posted, it looks like the one in Verona does.

A fellow who visited my website sent me a letter from the Orlando diocese. Here’s it word for word outside of the persons name being addressed; “St. Thomas Moore is not a church of the Catholic Diocese of Orlando and is not recognized by the Vatican.”

“Not recognized by the Vatican?” :confused:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top