Why are Ex-Catholics so angry about their CC and Catholic Converts are not?

[lumendelumine]

I second MariaG that people who convert to Catholicism gain something more, something fuller, while people who go away are often angry because they “have been lied to” (if they become Protestants) or because “you can’t live like the Church wants you to live” (if you have embraced the worldly - contracepting, aborting, homosexual, you name it - lifestyle).

Well, it’s probably all about Catholicism being the “fulness of the truth”. If you become Catholic, from another background, you always gain something. If you become something else from a Catholic background, you always lose something.

I remember when I talked to a colleague once who was raised in a very devout Catholic family but lost her faith (partly due to a sinful lifestyle) in her early 20s. We were talking about the fact that her loss of faith was probably also a rebellion against her parents. But then she said to me: “But what you did (e. g. converted to Catholicism from an agnostic background) was also a rebellion against your parents!”

But well, it wasn’t. I have won something by becoming Catholic; I was not “rebelling”. I still appreciate many things my parents have taught me and I love them. But I’ve discovered a whole new world through (the Catholic) faith. That’s quite a different thing than rejecting part of your parents’ world (i. e. their faith) - whether angrily or without anger.

 

[Catherine_S]

While some of the reasons given in this thread so far may be true for some former Catholics, they aren’t true for all.

My own experience leaving the Church was a rather gradual process. I’d been raised pretty hard-line Catholic (perhaps even more so than most people here!), had large chunks of the Baltimore Catechism memorized, read a lot of the bible and ECF, was an altar server, etc… but I started to realize that I wasn’t really finding any sort of** ‘religious’ experience** there. The** dark night of the soul**, one might say – and I didn’t make it out a newly-forged Catholic like you’re supposed to.

It hurt, but it didn’t leave me angry at anyone or anything. I’m actually far more at peace, both with myself and with the world, now outside the Church than I ever was in it.

It may have been the Dark Night Of The Senses that you experienced.

The Dark Night of The Soul may very well bring you back!

God Bless You Mirdath
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[ReConverted]

I’m a convert to Catholicism and a former Evangelical.

Anger? Yep, I’ve got some…mostly at flawed Evangelical teachings.

 

[Mirdath]

It may have been the Dark Night Of The Senses that you experienced.

The Dark Night of The Soul may very well bring you back!

God Bless You Mirdath
.

I’m open to the possibility, but don’t think it’s very likely

I’ve got nothing against religion itself, but I simply seem to lack the faculty of Faith (it’s curiosity as to just what that is that’s one of the reasons I started posting here). Trying to ‘fake’ that… well, didn’t work, and caused me a lot of pain. Like I said, I’m more at peace now than I ever was. Still, thanks for the well-wishes

 

[sing]

When I broke my ties with the Church there was so much anger and frustration…

I was in inner turmoil with regards to my sexuality and the Church’s positions had left me feeling guilty and sinful, unclean in the eyes of God. As I came to accept myself as gay, the Church became a target of my anger because I felt it had betrayed me. Instead of feeling support I felt that I was being overlooked and swept aside for the sake of preserving what I simply feel is an outdated and harmful gender theology. I didn’t seem to matter, my well being didn’t seem to matter, despite what I knew I needed, and that was acceptance, the Church would only let me feel clean and holy if I willingly submitted myself to misery and brokeness.

There was a very real rage and anger for a long time.

The other day I finally went to Mass for the first time in a while. Because of a particularly brilliant and wonderful Professor I have who happens to be incredibly devout, I have been able to re-align myself to a more neuteral position and see the Catholic Church with a more welcoming and warm vision. Though I will always disagree with many things, I no longer have the anger I once did.

I’ve been in a somewhat similar situation, although it was because I am bisexual, and I did not end up leaving.

A lot of people who have left the Church were deeply hurt in the process, and have difficulty coping with that pain. I have been hurt by the Church repeatedly, and I don’t anticipate it ending, and even though I haven’t left, it’s a constant fight for me to not lash out at the Church.

 

[KatieD]

Most of the ex-Catholics I know have joined mega-churches in the area. And almost all of them have left due to a marriage issue - they have been divorced and remarried outside of the Church. They are angry at the Church because they don’t like being told that their marriages are invalid in the eyes of the Church. So they leave for a place where they can do what they want and don’t have to answer to anyone. It’s sad, because very few of them actually understand the teachings of the Church.

 

[Catherine_S]

I’m open to the possibility, but don’t think it’s very likely

I’ve got nothing against religion itself, but I simply seem to lack the faculty of Faith (it’s curiosity as to just what that is that’s one of the reasons I started posting here). Trying to ‘fake’ that… well, didn’t work, and caused me a lot of pain. Like I said, I’m more at peace now than I ever was. Still, thanks for the well-wishes

Your at peace because you** “gave up”** instead of **“letting go”. **
Faith is a gift…ask, be patient and you will receive!
Some of us have more doubting Thomas in us than others and it is a struggle.
If we struggle too long we botton out and give up.
Sometimes the swimmer has to learn to just float.
Do you remember Saint Augustine’s "Lord I believe…help my disbelief."
I would say " Lord please bless me with deeper faith for belief is not enough."
God loves us…maybe He directed you to Catholic Answers Forum because He knows that you are now ready to surrender yourself to Him:bounce:.

Head and **Heart **together
Rational and Irrational
Reason and **Faith **
Cooking with gas !
.

 

[Hesychios]

As difficult as this may be for some to accept, most Roman Catholics who leave probably are not going to another church (at least not directly).

They are drifting away. Slipping out of sight.

That is the real danger, so many are becoming unchurched. They may still think of themselves as “raised Catholic” but it means nothing to their lives anyway.

BTW, that’s what a lot of the “Christmas Catholics” are. Some of them are nostalgic, and perhaps toy with the idea of coming back to their childhood Faith, but it passes.

When the real life-shaping events happen in their lives (who to marry, where to live, etc) the church is hardly even considered. Total afterthought.

The “angry” ones you come across barely scratch the surface. There is a vast sea of unchurched people out there, and instead of perfecting ways to argue them into submission, it would make more sense to learn how to evangelize. Polemics is not evangelization, there is a time and place for both.
*
Michael*

 

[Mannyfit75]

As difficult as this may be for some to accept, most Roman Catholics who leave probably are not going to another church (at least not directly).

They are drifting away. Slipping out of sight.

That is the real danger, so many are becoming unchurched. They may still think of themselves as “raised Catholic” but it means nothing to their lives anyway.

BTW, that’s what a lot of the “Christmas Catholics” are. Some of them are nostalgic, and perhaps toy with the idea of coming back to their childhood Faith, but it passes.

When the real life-shaping events happen in their lives (who to marry, where to live, etc) the church is hardly even considered. Total afterthought.

The “angry” ones you come across barely scratch the surface. There is a vast sea of unchurched people out there, and instead of perfecting ways to argue them into submission, it would make more sense to learn how to evangelize. Polemics is not evangelization, there is a time and place for both.
*
Michael*

Most Catholics, the Non-practicing Catholics hate the Catholic Church more than the Ex-Catholics who left the Church. I know one Commander in my last unit who hate the Church, and believe the Church and the Bible as invention of men. He remains Catholic, and he hates the Church.

 

[JesusforMadrid]

Look it up" - the trademark reply of the one with no answers.

It just so happens I have the book right here and there is nothing on those pages even remotely “anti-Evangelical”! If there is, then cite it here for us yourself. Did you just pull some pages out at random hoping nobody would bother checking for themselves??

That’s not fair!

Yes, in this and other sources Scott Hahn’s testimony is filled with anger. His basic message: I was an angry anti-Catholic bigot. I became a Catholic and I am angry how fellow Evangelicals view my conversion. I am angry the the Evangelical church did not teach me about various RC teachings. Angry, angry, angry.

I am paraphrasing, obviously. Perhaps the RCs on this board do not have the sensitivity to pick up on Hahn’s attitude in the midst of their rejoicing about his conversion.

 

[ReConverted]

Yes, in this and other sources Scott Hahn’s testimony is filled with anger. His basic message: I was an angry anti-Catholic bigot. I became a Catholic and I am angry how fellow Evangelicals view my conversion. I am angry the the Evangelical church did not teach me about various RC teachings. Angry, angry, angry.

I am paraphrasing, obviously. Perhaps the RCs on this board do not have the sensitivity to pick up on Hahn’s attitude in the midst of their rejoicing about his conversion.

Hahn has been VERY cordial to Evangelical people, and at the same time, he has demonstrated very clearly the flaws in Evangelicalism. He HAS been the victim of many spurious attacks on his character, and I’ve yet to see him respond angrily. My own conversion was due in large part to Scott Hahn’s journey: I worked in a restaurant, and one of my customers gave me a Scott Hahn conversion story tape…he did a masterful job of pointing out the fullness of the Catholic faith, and I will always be grateful to him for his integrity, courage, and honesty. He followed the truth wherever it led him. THAT is my kind of human being!

 

[JesusforMadrid]

Hahn has been VERY cordial to Evangelical people, and at the same time, he has demonstrated very clearly the flaws in Evangelicalism. He HAS been the victim of many spurious attacks on his character, and I’ve yet to see him respond angrily. My own conversion was due in large part to Scott Hahn’s journey: I worked in a restaurant, and one of my customers gave me a Scott Hahn conversion story tape…he did a masterful job of pointing out the fullness of the Catholic faith, and I will always be grateful to him for his integrity, courage, and honesty. He followed the truth wherever it led him. THAT is my kind of human being!

I am glad your experience has been a good one and I hope my comments about Hahn do not offend anyone on this board.

I know that amongst Evangelicals I am not the only one who feels that he comes off as being vehemently anti-Evangelical, as a perusal of on-line reviews of his books will tell you.

Frankly, I think “Exs” tend to be extreme because they are under tremendous pressure to justify their change of faith. To avoid cognitive dissonance, they assume an extreme posture.

Since I was never an anti-Catholic bigot, Scott Hahn’s testimony doesn’t resonate with me.

 

[RNRobert]

Yes, in this and other sources Scott Hahn’s testimony is filled with anger. His basic message: I was an angry anti-Catholic bigot. I became a Catholic and I am angry how fellow Evangelicals view my conversion. I am angry the the Evangelical church did not teach me about various RC teachings. Angry, angry, angry.

I am paraphrasing, obviously. Perhaps the RCs on this board do not have the sensitivity to pick up on Hahn’s attitude in the midst of their rejoicing about his conversion.

I’ve read his conversion story Rome Sweet Home, many times, and I never detected the slightest trace of anger towards the Presbyterian church (the church where he was a minister) or any other Evangelical churches.

 

[runandsew]

Yes, in this and other sources Scott Hahn’s testimony is filled with anger. His basic message: I was an angry anti-Catholic bigot. I became a Catholic and I am angry how fellow Evangelicals view my conversion. I am angry the the Evangelical church did not teach me about various RC teachings. Angry, angry, angry.

I am paraphrasing, obviously. Perhaps the RCs on this board do not have the sensitivity to pick up on Hahn’s attitude in the midst of their rejoicing about his conversion.

I don’t have the book in front of me right now, but listening to his story, I know that he lost a lot of friends because of the conversion, they have pretty much totally broken off any communication or friendship.
The same happen when Ken Hensley converted from a baptist minister, he was locked out of the church, and lost all his friends. He had to start out all over again washing dishes.
It seems to me that the issue is not there being any anti-Evangelical feelings on the part of Scott Hahn, but there is very strong anti-catholic actions on the part of their ex-friends. I would be a little miffed also if I was cut off from all my long time friends just because I converted.
I know some catholics (including my daughter) that have left the church, but the catholics that I know don’t act that way to these people and their conversion.
I think you are looking through very biased eyes.

 

[JesusforMadrid]

I don’t have the book in front of me right now, but listening to his story, I know that he lost a lot of friends because of the conversion, they have pretty much totally broken off any communication or friendship.
The same happen when Ken Hensley converted from a baptist minister, he was locked out of the church, and lost all his friends. He had to start out all over again washing dishes.
It seems to me that the issue is not there being any anti-Evangelical feelings on the part of Scott Hahn, but there is very strong anti-catholic actions on the part of their ex-friends. I would be a little miffed also if I was cut off from all my long time friends just because I converted.
I know some catholics (including my daughter) that have left the church, but the catholics that I know don’t act that way to these people and their conversion.
I think you are looking through very biased eyes.

You don’t think the same thing happens when a Roman Catholic nun or priest leaves to become Evangelical? Many if not most of the Evangelical pastors in my country are former RCs. I know several who have been ostracised by their entire families. The wife of a pastor friend of mine was entered into a mental hospital by her parents when, as a teenager, she joined an Evangelical church.

Believe me, this cuts absolutely both ways. Perhaps you live in a majority Protestant country, so the ostracism is relatively greater for those leaving the Evangelical church. Move to a majority Roman Catholic country and you get the same effect in reverse.

 

[Catherine_S]

Read my citations. He seems angry with Evangelicals. He is an important RC apologist. So, it is not just ex-Catholics that are angry.

What I will grant you is that there are a whole lot more Ex-Catholics than Ex Evangelicals, so their anger seems more ubiquitous.

Saint Paul Center for Biblical Theology:
Scott Hahn
salvationhistory.com/bookstore/audioRsrcs.cfm
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[runandsew]

You don’t think the same thing happens when a Roman Catholic nun or priest leaves to become Evangelical? Many if not most of the Evangelical pastors in my country are former RCs. I know several who have been ostracised by their entire families. The wife of a pastor friend of mine was entered into a mental hospital by her parents when, as a teenager, she joined an Evangelical church.

Believe me, this cuts absolutely both ways. Perhaps you live in a majority Protestant country, so the ostracism is relatively greater for those leaving the Evangelical church. Move to a majority Roman Catholic country and you get the same effect in reverse.

Do these ex Nuns and Priests still talk lovingly about the Catholic Church, or do they bash it?
If they are bashing the Church, then that would be a real indicator of why people are ostracizing them.

Scott is not bashing his evangelical, and he is not in a Catholic majority country, in fact he says that he loves his evangelical past, and says that he only changed because he found the fullness of the Catholic faith.

He says that he had found Jesus, now he has found the Church Jesus established.

 

[Catherine_S]

What I will grant you is that there are a whole lot more Ex-Catholics than Ex Evangelicals, so their anger seems more ubiquitous.

It is not surprising to me that there are **Catholics **who **have **and will in the future be attracted to a gospel that meets their personal needs.
How long it will last is up to the Lord !
.

Charles Colson (P) Well acclamed founder of Prison Ministry.
Some evangelists see converts **as trophies in a big game hunt **and measure their success by numbers . . . The result of all this is a watered-down message that, in large part, accounts for today’s **epidemic spread **of **easy believism, Christianity without cost. **

Many evangelical leaders are alarmed at an unbridled love of mammon among their flocks and peers, and an increasing number of books are now appearing, by, e.g., Ron Side, Jacques Ellul, Tom Sine, Anthony Campolo, John White, and Richard Foster.
Sadly, however, the concern of wise leaders will likely have little effect on the massive accommodation to the influence of worldly pressures.

Charles Colson (P)
Much of today’s teaching and preaching communicates Christianity as an instant fix to all **of our pains **and struggles. Consequently, we begin to think of our faith as a sparkling magic wand: we wave it, and presto, our problems are gone in a puff of smoke. But this is, **bluntly **put, heresy. Like most subtle heresies, it tickles our ears . It not only makes Christians incredibly naive in approaching complex problems, but it can shatter the fragile faith of the believer who expects the magic wand to work every time. When those problems **don’t **disappear . . he questions whether his spirituality is faulty.

.

 

[cheddarsox]

There are lots of former Catholics that don’t bash the RCC. But of course…you’re less likely to hear from them, about them if you are still in the RCC. The ones making noise are the ones that you’ll notice. In my journey from Catholicism, through Protestantism, and paganism, I have met lots of former RCC’s, who have fond memories of their childhood faith, and don’t knock it, except for the fact that they don’t believe it anymore.

But since they are out of the CC, I guess most RCC members don’t hear their stories. Also, in my experience, simply leaving the Catholic faith is taken as an afront by many Catholics. Most of the time, when it comes up in conversation, they are the ones pushing the issues, being angry and argumentative with me. They want to prove me wrong, win me back, defend the faith. So even though I had no desire or issue to argue faith with them…they push the issues, and then tell me I am hateful, angry, and anti-Catholic.

So…some of this might merely be who you are in contact with, and your own personal perspective.

Personally, I am grateful for the faith foundation I received in Catholicism, it prepared me for what lay ahead.

cheddar

 

[Catherine_S]

It is not surprising to me that there are **Catholics **who **have **and will in the future be attracted to a gospel that meets their personal needs.
How long it will last is up to the Lord !
.
Charles Colson (P) Well acclamed founder of Prison Ministry.
Some evangelists see converts **as trophies in a big game hunt **and measure their success by numbers . . . The result of all this is a watered-down message that, in large part, accounts for today’s **epidemic spread **of **easy believism, Christianity without cost. **

Many evangelical leaders are alarmed at an unbridled love of mammon among their flocks and peers, and an increasing number of books are now appearing, by, e.g., Ron Side, Jacques Ellul, Tom Sine, Anthony Campolo, John White, and Richard Foster.
Sadly, however, the concern of wise leaders will likely have little effect on the massive accommodation to the influence of worldly pressures.

Charles Colson (P)
Much of today’s teaching and preaching communicates Christianity as an instant fix to all **of our pains **and struggles. Consequently, we begin to think of our faith as a sparkling magic wand: we wave it, and presto, our problems are gone in a puff of smoke. But this is, **bluntly **put, heresy. Like most subtle heresies, it tickles our ears . It not only makes Christians incredibly naive in approaching complex problems, but it can shatter the fragile faith of the believer who expects the magic wand to work every time. When those problems **don’t **disappear . . he questions whether his spirituality is faulty.

.