Why are guardian angels usually hidden?

[Neoplatonist]

Consider that God knew whether or not James would** respond **to this grace.

Had God allowed this grace and James would have rejected it by failing to act on it, it would actually have increased his culpability in regards to the estrangement between him and his father (that presumably would have continued).

God knows when it is to our benefit to grant us extraordinary/supernatural graces (such as you’re seeking), and when it is to our benefit NOT to grant them.
***Luke 12:48 … Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; ***…I recall reading once that Padre Pio was concerned over his eternal welfare – because he knew more would be expected of him because of the many extraordinary graces he had been given.

That whole line of thinking suggests that “ask and you shall receive” is nothing more than a bait-and-switch scam. Why tell us to turn to Him if doing so doesn’t change anything? Somehow now God will ignore our free will if our exercise of it would result in our increased culpability? Isn’t that the whole point of free will? According to this line of argument, God would not have put the apple in the garden because he knew letting Adam have free will in that and choose for himself would not work out. ?]

 

[roselily]

I read,



Romans 8
18 I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory about to be revealed to us. 19For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the children of God; 20for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and will obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning in labour pains until now; 23and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what is seen? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

:angel1::angel1:

 

[JamesCaruso]

Consider that God knew whether or not James would** respond **to this grace.

Had God allowed this grace and James would have rejected it by failing to act on it, it would actually have increased his culpability in regards to the estrangement between him and his father (that presumably would have continued).

**God knows when it is to our benefit to grant us extraordinary/supernatural graces (such as you’re seeking), and when it is to our benefit NOT to grant them.
***Luke 12:48 … Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; *****…I recall reading once that Padre Pio was concerned over his eternal welfare – because he knew more would be expected of him because of the many extraordinary graces he had been given.

I can believe Padre Pio’s concern.

Someone I know had a conversation with Mother Teresa. She worried that people so considered her a saint that they would not pray for her after she died assuming she went straight to heaven.

 

[Nita]

That whole line of thinking suggests that “ask and you shall receive” is nothing more than a bait-and-switch scam. Why tell us to turn to Him if doing so doesn’t change anything? Somehow now God will ignore our free will if our exercise of it would result in our increased culpability? Isn’t that the whole point of free will?

The “ask and you shall receive” is based on the fundamental understanding of God’s goodness and love for us – that He would not give us something that would not be to our good. *Mt. 7:7-11 "Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and … For every one who asks receives, and … Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will **your Father who is in heaven **give **good things **to those who ask him! * Note that Our Lord says “ask and you shall receive”, but He doesn’t say that what we’ll receive will necessarily be what we asked for! The last verse clarifies that the “ask and receive” is to be understood of what the Father considers to be “good things” for us. What to us may seem to be “bread” or “fish” may turn out to be a “stone” or “serpent” in our case.

To ask God for supernatural visions or visitations is to ask Him to suspend the normal laws of nature that He established for our good here on earth…

According to this line of argument, God would not have put the apple in the garden because he knew letting Adam have free will in that and choose for himself would not work out.

How do you know it didn’t work out to an even greater benefit for Adam? He sinned, yes. But as Our Lord said, " Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance." (Luke 15:7)

 

[Neoplatonist]

Yeah, but come on: it also doesn’t say “What father, when their child asks for bread would stand silent giving the child nothing because only he knows what is good for the child.” If we’re going to buy the claim that a child asking for a hug or a word of comfort is to not show faith in a parent, then we need to just skip the “parent” talk and go for some other metaphor altogether.

Of course, in the case of angels we might think of it more in terms of an older brother or a mentor, rather than a parent per se, but you get the idea.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Two general considerations:

1.) “The check is in the mail, until the end of time.” Isn’t that, effectively, the summation of the argument for hiddenness? Consider how far my credit would go if I said “I have willed all my worldly possessions to you,” but if you were to see the will, it would change you for the worse, so you need to trust me. Then, allow that I didn’t even say it at all, but someone else said it to you about me.

2.) If a theological stance rules out the valid sainthood of those who wish to see the wounds of Christ, like dear Thomas, then you might need to reformulate the stance.

3.) If you bring out the “we can’t know how it turned out” argument as a defense at any point, then that branch of discussion is dead, because nothing can hold as valid beyond that premise. If we are only able to judge the goodness or badness of an act by its eventual consequences, then we cannot judge anything good or bad until the end of time. Among other possibilities is the loss of any credibility for saints or apostles because, “how can we know that they didn’t end up in Hell for the falsehoods they taught?”

 

[Nita]

Yeah, but come on: it also doesn’t say “What father, when their child asks for bread would stand silent giving the child nothing because only he knows what is good for the child.”

Just because God doesn’t give us what we asked for doesn’t meant He gives/gave us “nothing”.

If we’re going to buy the claim that a child asking for a hug or a word of comfort is to not show faith in a parent, then we need to just skip the “parent” talk and go for some other metaphor altogether.

Of course, in the case of angels we might think of it more in terms of an older brother or a mentor, rather than a parent per se, but you get the idea.

A child asking for a hug or word of comfort is asking for something ordinary. You’re not talking about something ordinary, but rather something extraordinary - something beyond the natural; something supernatural.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Just because God doesn’t give us what we asked for doesn’t meant He gave us “nothing”. A child asking for a hug or word of comfort is asking for something ordinary. You’re not talking about something ordinary, but rather something extraordinary - something beyond the natural; something supernatural.

a.)So the parent’s response would be different if the child asked for an expensive drug to help fight off a physical or mental illness?

b.)But I’m not asking an ordinary parent, and I’m asking for something well within his powers to grant with nary a blink of the eye.

 

[Nita]

Two general considerations:

1.) “The check is in the mail, until the end of time.” Isn’t that, effectively, the summation of the argument for hiddenness? Consider how far my credit would go if I said “I have willed all my worldly possessions to you,” but if you were to see the will, it would change you for the worse, so you need to trust me. Then, allow that I didn’t even say it at all, but someone else said it to you about me.

2.) If a theological stance rules out the valid sainthood of those who wish to see the wounds of Christ, like dear Thomas, then you might need to reformulate the stance.

Huh?

3.) If you bring out the “we can’t know how it turned out” argument as a defense at any point, then that branch of discussion is dead, because nothing can hold as valid beyond that premise. If we are only able to judge the goodness or badness of an act by its eventual consequences, then we cannot judge anything good or bad until the end of time. Among other possibilities is the loss of any credibility for saints or apostles because, “how can we know that they didn’t end up in Hell for the falsehoods they taught?”

You’ve got 2 different judgements jumbled together - judgement of acts and judgement of personal guilt (“end up in Hell”). They’re two separate things, but near as I can tell you’re equating them. Sorry, but can’t really figure out what you mean.

 

[roselily]

Just because God doesn’t give us what we asked for doesn’t meant He gives/gave us “nothing”.

.

True! :angel1:

I remember I read these wise sayings in CAF a thread somewhere— :“God gives you what you need… not what you want…
he makes available the things you need to achieve the things you want…
we must learn and understand how things work…”— Phil Marinus

I saw that we must endure everything. I saw that sometimes something meant to happen that you could not run off from it and even if you want you could not that it is predestined . Now we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.

**Romans 8
28 We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. **

 

[roselily]

Just because God doesn’t give us what we asked for doesn’t meant He gives/gave us “nothing”.

A child asking for a hug or word of comfort is asking for something ordinary. You’re not talking about something ordinary, but rather something extraordinary - something beyond the natural; something supernatural.

I read,

**1Corinthians 2
9But, as it is written,
‘What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the human heart conceived,
what God has prepared for those who love him’—

1Peter 1
12It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things that have now been announced to you through those who brought you good news by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look!**

 

[roselily]

I read,

**1Corinthians 2
9But, as it is written,
‘What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the human heart conceived,
what God has prepared for those who love him’—

1Peter 1
12It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things that have now been announced to you through those who brought you good news by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look!**

 

[Nita]

a.)So the parent’s response would be different if the child asked for an expensive drug to help fight off a physical or mental illness?

That is not asking for something beyond what is “natural”.

Now, even within the realm of what is “natural”, there could well be times when a child begs his parents for something that he thinks is necessary and beneficial (bread or fish), but that the parents recognize as harmful (stone or serpent). Loving parents would not give the child what he asked for in those circumstances.

b.)But I’m not asking an ordinary parent, and I’m asking for something well within his powers to grant with nary a blink of the eye.

And if your 4 year old asks for the car keys because he just really wants to drive - and of course it’s “well within your powers”, easy as pie actually, to get the keys and place them in his hand - are you going to do it? Would you approve and consider it generous and loving of a parent who did such a thing?

 

[Nita]

**

I remember I read these wise sayings in CAF a thread somewhere— :“God gives you what you need… not what you want…
he makes available the things you need to achieve the things you want…
we must learn and understand how things work…”— Phil Marinus

**

Thanks roselily.

 

[roselily]

Thanks roselily.

:hug1:
May God bless dear Nita and all dear Brothers Sisters, it is that
"Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, just as it is well with your soul.-----3 John:2 "

 

[Dorothy]

Interesting. I’ll have to get my hands on the Kreeft book.

In general it seems a bit like sweeping it all under the carpet. How do two things (or n things) that I can’t see and must just trust on blind faith strengthen my faith or console my suffering any more than having just one thing I can’t see and must trust on blind faith? What I mean is, if guardian angels are just as inaccessible and aloof as God is, what has believing in them added to my experience?

God is not aloof, it just seems that way, we need to pray for deeper faith and ponder what is taught in Sacred Scripture.

 

[mikekle]

a.)

b.)But I’m not asking an ordinary parent, and I’m asking for something well within his powers to grant with nary a blink of the eye.

Great point!!

 

[Neoplatonist]

That is not asking for something beyond what is “natural”.

Now, even within the realm of what is “natural”, there could well be times when a child begs his parents for something that he thinks is necessary and beneficial (bread or fish), but that the parents recognize as harmful (stone or serpent). Loving parents would not give the child what he asked for in those circumstances.

And if your 4 year old asks for the car keys because he just really wants to drive - and of course it’s “well within your powers”, easy as pie actually, to get the keys and place them in his hand - are you going to do it? Would you approve and consider it generous and loving of a parent who did such a thing?

Interesting points. However, what kind of lame parent would I be if I just stood there silently when he asked me for something? Similarly:

a.) I also wouldn’t give my 4-year-old child a book of stories about lots of other times I let 4-year-olds borrow the car keys and how happy that made them.

b.) I would not tell my child that anytime he asks me for something, I would give it to him.

c.) If he asked me why I gave it to the others but not to him, again, I would not just stand there silently (nor write down my reply somewhere and leave it to be opened at some arbitrary future date, nor give him a piece of candy instead and hope he understood).

 

[Neoplatonist]

Let me clarify: the child is not asking for bread or car keys. He is asking for the parent - or even just the father’s messenger - to reassure the child with a wave from the sidelines of the soccer game.

 

[roselily]

—I know that God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created human; but God is not human he is Father Almighty that only He know what is best for His children.

I should be happy, could I look everything and know everything, but I am weak that I do not know many things and can not see the whole picture, humankind is blind in front of God. I hope I could be strong and see.

**Deuteronomy 31
8It is the Lord who goes before you. He will be with you; he will not fail you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed.’

Isaiah 42
16 I will lead the blind
by a road they do not know,
by paths they have not known
I will guide them.
I will turn the darkness before them into light,
the rough places into level ground.
These are the things I will do,
and I will not forsake them.

Deuteronomy 31
6Be strong and bold; have no fear or dread of them, because it is the Lord your God who goes with you; he will not fail you or forsake you.’
**