Why are guardian angels usually hidden?

[Nita]

Speaking of priestly gifts (or maybe it’s not a gift), we have a priest in out Diocese who, wherever he goes, is accompanied by weeping statues of Mary. The Bishop, seeing that he was causing so much controversy, called him into his office to try to nip things in the bud, I suppose. When the priest entered the Bishop’s office, a statue of Our Lady in the Bishop’s office began to weep. The priest, I am told, also has the stigmata. He has been assigned to a country parish far removed from the city. Hard to believe, isn’t it, in the United States of America of all places.

Padre Pio was sent back to his home at one point, and also subjected to some other restrictions. It is usually a test of obedience for them; and it seems to be something experienced by many mystics.

The Church is very cautious about approving of supernatural phenomena, which is very wise. Satan can also cause such phenomena.

 

[Dorothy]

I’m familiar with Michael Brown. (I bolded the words that are his and not Fr. Bozada’s.) What bothers me in his writings is what I consider a tendency to sensationalize, so to speak, or dramatize. He seems to be overly absorbed in conspiracy theories, chastisements and end times. (Not exactly sure how to express it.) I don’t question his fidelity to the Church, just what seems to me to be an extremism in the above areas.

I did find Fr. Bozada’s words interesting (bolding & underlining mine):
Fr. Mark Bozada ”In my own prayer I have been shown that the** preternatural gifts** lost in the Garden are being partly restored and part of the grace is having the veil lifted,” explains Father Bozada, who ministers at three parishes. “It is predicated, however, on obedience to God’s Will, so as not interrupted by the evil one. The two ways we support that is to remain obedient to the Church community and Magisterium. The perfection of the Holy Spirit is revealed through the Church.” As you can see, Father’s reference to the veil being lifted is in reference to the preternatural gifts - thus it’s very important to know what is meant by “preternatural gifts”. Also note that he says it is “revealed through the Church”.

The** preternatural gifts **“include three great privileges to which human beings have no title – infused knowledge, absence of concupiscence, and bodily immortality. Adam and Eve possessed these gifts before the Fall.” (from Fr. Hardon’s “Modern Catholic Dictionary”.) As you can see, what Fr. Bozada is speaking about being restored has nothing to do with visions of angels and demons. And the partial restoration of these gifts is conditional on obedience…

Also, thanks for the link you provided. It contains links to blogs of many good priests - which will provide some good reading material in my spare time.

Thank you for your above careful explanation. It has helped me to understand a lot more about Father Bozada’s statement.

 

[Nita]

Wait, if they already possessed bodily immortality, how would they have changed by eating from the tree of life (that God had to kick them out in order to prevent
Nita;11626367:

In my recollection there are a couple of theories:

1. If they had been eating from the Tree of Life prior to the test, then the fruit would have served to nourish or enhance the immortal life they had been given. …
2. …

Tomorrow I’ll see if I can locate where I might have come across those possible understandings.

Here are a couple of links:
newadvent.org/summa/1097.htm
newadvent.org/fathers/120113.htm (Chapter 20)

I couldn’t find anything for the second possibility I gave - so best to ignore that one.

 

[roselily]

A wonderful doctrine, :angel1:


And do you want eat fruits of Tree of Life very soon?

Sure.

–Dear Brothers Sisters, let us pray to eat fruits of Tree of Life.

How good that would be, Dear Brothers Sisters!

How good that would be, Dear Brothers Sisters!

**Revelation 22
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2through the middle of the street of the city. On either side of the river is the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, producing its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
**

 

[Neoplatonist]

Let’s think of it a different way:

If we are not supposed to hope for miracles and angels, or pray for miracles or angels, why fill our heads with wondrous stories of people who saw them?

If we are better/stronger to believe without them, why hold up as our heroes those who needed them as crutches to their faith?

 

[Nita]

Let’s think of it a different way:

If we are not supposed to hope for miracles and angels, or pray for miracles or angels, why fill our heads with wondrous stories of people who saw them?

Because they serve as a testimony to the reality of the supernatural to those who do not personally experience or witness such supernatural interventions.

There’s nothing wrong with hoping to see your angel or to experience a miracle. What’s wrong is to think you’re entitled to it, and/or to be upset with God because He doesn’t grant you this extra gift that you want.

If we are better/stronger to believe without them, why hold up as our heroes those who needed them as crutches to their faith?

They are not held up as heroes because they experienced miracles (whether or not they needed them as crutches). They are held up as heroes because of the way they lived their life.

Experiencing or witnessing miracles does not ensure faith. Judas witnessed miracles.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Hope and frustration are two sides of the same coin. What do you think frustration could even mean if not the feeling of tired-out hope? Similarly, what would it really mean to say you hope for something if not that your heart’s joy was depending upon it?

But if we should believe perfectly well without seeing angels or miracles for ourselves, should we not also believe perfectly well without the testimony of others who saw angels or miracles for themselves? (This seems like having your cake and eating it too.)

Thirdly, it seems a limited view of human nature to think that we can see that our brothers and sisters received something wondrous but we did not. On Christmas morning when they open their amazing, life-changing gifts and we open an empty box, we would be placated temporarily if our parents say ours is still coming in the mail. How long could/would we expect a normal human being to hold to that hope?

If your model is the right one, then why did Christ not turn away from Thomas when he “demanded” to see and touch the wounds? Do you think he would have been any less frustrated than the rest of us? (And that is AFTER he saw a ridiculous number of miracles). He was unable to believe on testimony alone, why is our standard any higher?

 

[Nita]

…Thirdly, it seems a limited view of human nature to think that we can see that our brothers and sisters received something wondrous but we did not.

Just a very few of your brothers and sisters. And remember, it’s not like they experience the miracles on a regular basis of some sort (miracle a week/month/year…). For those who are granted such a gift, it is often a once in a lifetime occurrence.
And you’re not dead yet, so you may still get to be one of those few.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Just a very few of your brothers and sisters. And remember, it’s not like they experience the miracles on a regular basis of some sort (miracle a week/month/year…). For those who are granted such a gift, it is often a once in a lifetime occurrence.
And you’re not dead yet, so you may still get to be one of those few.

lol

a.) I sure hope it’s soon. I don’t think I’ll make it if it’s, like, planned for when I’m 80.

b.) When/if it happens, I will definitely come on here and let you know, Nita, that all my frustration has been washed away. Seems only fair. Heck, maybe I’ll just change my real name to Neoplatonist at that point, so all the dauntless souls who have talked with me on the Forum will share in the joy (and the part they played in getting me there).

 

[Nita]

lol

a.) I sure hope it’s soon. I don’t think I’ll make it if it’s, like, planned for when I’m 80.

b.) When/if it happens, I will definitely come on here and let you know, Nita, that all my frustration has been washed away. Seems only fair. Heck, maybe I’ll just change my real name to Neoplatonist at that point, so all the dauntless souls who have talked with me on the Forum will share in the joy (and the part they played in getting me there).

I look forward to sharing in your joy. Hope you will send me a PM, that way I won’t miss it.

 

[Neoplatonist]

If your model is the right one, then why did Christ not turn away from Thomas when he “demanded” to see and touch the wounds? Do you think he would have been any less frustrated than the rest of us? (And that is AFTER he saw a ridiculous number of miracles). He was unable to believe on testimony alone, why is our standard any higher?

If he offered Thomas this help, even after all Thomas had already seen and done, in order to help his wavering faith, and he still helped Peter even when he began to sink into the waves, again in spite of all he had already seen and done, then why so much less responsive to me when I have NOT already seen great miracles first hand?

Saying that it just shows a lack of faith on my part, or some mysterious but good reason on God’s part is not really a solution. In the former case, because the argument would just be going in a circle: the reason you don’t have stronger faith is because you doubt that these things are true without having seen them, but “to doubt they are true b/c you have not seen them” simply IS a lack of faith - the very thing which seeing the angels was supposed to help me with.

In the latter case, it is not really a helpful solution because believing it is good, when it is shrouded in myster would also require the very same faith which I did not have at the beginning of the discussion.

How do we escape the placebo-paradox model that kicks in when we have to bootstrap ourselves out of quicksand at every turn?

I can’t just “choose” to believe in miracles without ever having experienced even a single one any more than I can “choose” to believe in something scientifically rare and marvelous, like a black hole that streams rainbows out into the universe?

 

[Nita]

…I can’t just “choose” to believe in miracles without ever having experienced even a single one …

Of course you “can”. I, and millions/billions of Catholics have done it in the past 2000 years.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Of course you “can”. I, and millions/billions of Catholics have done it in the past 2000 years.

I may be missing something: in your version, it would not be a gift, it would be an act of willpower. ?]

 

[Asiyreh]

I can’t just “choose” to believe in miracles without ever having experienced even a single one any more than I can “choose” to believe in something scientifically rare and marvelous, like a black hole that streams rainbows out into the universe?

Hawkins lost a long standing bet when physicists discovered that light could theoretically escape from black holes. At least one component needed to make a blackhole stream rainbows is present. We know gravity can bend light and with all the chaotic gravitational forces, acting in a black hole. It’s not unreasonable to assume such a thing could divide the light waves and literally “stream a rainbow.”

I’m sure this doesn’t help your lack of faith but still… black hole rainbows, it’s a novel idea.

 

[Aloysium]

I may be missing something: in your version, it would not be a gift, it would be an act of willpower. ?]

Seems to me it is hard to find anything that isn’t a miracle. Actually, the fact that whatever it is, would exist is pretty spectacular. I mean, think about yourself. What is that?? Aren’t you unique in being yourself. It may be just a few people who read this, but none of those experiences can replace what you are seeing, understanding right now. A miracle, every moment of life: happy, sad, joyous, horrific, interesting, boring, painful or ecstatic - wow!!!

 

[Nita]

I may be missing something: in your version, it would not be a gift, it would be an act of willpower. ?]

Choosing is always an act of the will. To believe is an act of the will.
It’s assisted by the gift of God’s grace – but it is not forced by this gift.
Seeing/experiencing a miracle does not ensure faith. Judas not only saw and talked to Our Lord, but also saw His miracles. So did many of the disbelieving scribes and Pharisees.

 

[Nita]

Seems to me it is hard to find anything that isn’t a miracle. Actually, the fact that whatever it is, would exist is pretty spectacular. I mean, think about yourself. What is that?? Aren’t you unique in being yourself. It may be just a few people who read this, but none of those experiences can replace what you are seeing, understanding right now. A miracle, every moment of life: happy, sad, joyous, horrific, interesting, boring, painful or ecstatic - wow!!!

The miracle of “being”; a great gift from “I AM” – the “Being”.
It was many years before it registered within me just what a great gift and miracle it was just to “be”. (And not just for me and other humans, but for everything created by God that “be’s” – whether animate or inanimate.)

 

[Neoplatonist]

Seems to me it is hard to find anything that isn’t a miracle. Actually, the fact that whatever it is, would exist is pretty spectacular. I mean, think about yourself. What is that?? Aren’t you unique in being yourself. It may be just a few people who read this, but none of those experiences can replace what you are seeing, understanding right now. A miracle, every moment of life: happy, sad, joyous, horrific, interesting, boring, painful or ecstatic - wow!!!

If we put everything in that category, then we just need to come up with a different word to refer to those exceptional events normally referred to as miracles in the Bible and the religious tradition.

 

[Nita]

If we put everything in that category, then we just need to come up with a different word to refer to those exceptional events normally referred to as miracles in the Bible and the religious tradition.

Creation was/is a “miracle”.
**What’s your definition of a “miracle”? ** That could be where your difficulty lies. It’s possible you have your own idea of what should constitute a miracle and reject as miraculous anything that does not measure up to that concept.

Some miracles last a split second, some seconds/minutes/hrs/days/…
Some have continued ever since God first caused them. Eg. Lanciano Eucharistic miracle ever since 700 AD (over 1300 years and still counting); image of Our Lady of Guadalupe (500+ years and still counting); incorrupt bodies of saints; and yes, creation of the physical universe, the longest of the ongoing miracles in our physical universe.

 

[Neoplatonist]

Creation was/is a “miracle”.
**What’s your definition of a “miracle”? ** That could be where your difficulty lies. It’s possible you have your own idea of what should constitute a miracle and reject as miraculous anything that does not measure up to that concept.

Some miracles last a split second, some seconds/minutes/hrs/days/…
Some have continued ever since God first caused them. Eg. Lanciano Eucharistic miracle ever since 700 AD (over 1300 years and still counting); image of Our Lady of Guadalupe (500+ years and still counting); incorrupt bodies of saints; and yes, creation of the physical universe, the longest of the ongoing miracles in our physical universe.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia we find:
The wonder of the miracle is due to the fact that its cause is hidden, and an effect is expected other than what actually takes place. Hence, by comparison with the ordinary course of things, the miracle is called extraordinary. In analyzing the difference between the extraordinary character of the miracle and the ordinary course of nature, the Fathers of the Church and theologians employ the terms above, contrary to, and outside nature. These terms express the manner in which the miracle is extraordinary.

This is much more in keeping with what the vast majority of people mean the vast majority of the time when they use the term. In contrast, if we are to hang with the idea that everything is a miracle, then we are hard pressed to understand why Christ performed wondrous feats instead of just saying, “look around”, or “you woke up this morning, be moved to wonder.” But he didn’t. Rather, he knew what the saints and witnesses down through history have felt, and that is that a certain wondrous rarity of the event in connection to a prayer or event can serve as a great help to faith.

To answer the other point: no, I have no expectation that seeing my guardian angel would ensure my faith. If I am to believe the stories of the Bible and the saints, however, it is fair to hope it would help my faith, though.