Why are Jews at the 'Holocaust denial' conference?

[FightingFat]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6171503.stm

Rabbi Friedman told BBC Radio Four’s PM programme that he was not in Tehran to debate whether the Holocaust happened or not, but to look at its lessons.
He says the Holocaust was being used to legitimise the suffering of other peoples and he wanted to break what he called a taboo on discussing it. The main thing, he argued, was not Jewish suffering in the past but the use of the Holocaust as a “tool of commercial, military and media power”.

Rabbi Aharon Cohen, told the conference he prayed **“that the underlying cause of strife and bloodshed in the Middle East, namely the state known as Israel, be totally and peacefully dissolved”. **

In its place, Rabbi Cohen said, should be **“a regime fully in accordance with the aspirations of the Palestinians when Arab and Jew will be able to live peacefully together as they did for centuries”. **

Neturei Karta believes the very idea of an Israeli state goes against the Jewish religion.
The book of Jewish law or Talmud, they say, teaches that believers may not use human force to create a Jewish state before the coming of the Messiah.

 

[Richardols]

Neturei Karta believes the very idea of an Israeli state goes against the Jewish religion.
The book of Jewish law or Talmud, they say, teaches that believers may not use human force to create a Jewish state before the coming of the Messiah.

Those Hassids are represented among those in Brooklyn, NY where I was raised, and they are indeed anti-Zionist, anti-State-of-Israel Jews. They have a point. Israel is anything but a Jewish religious entity - it is quite secular.

 

[FightingFat]

Those Hassids are represented among those in Brooklyn, NY where I was raised, and they are indeed anti-Zionist, anti-State-of-Israel Jews. They have a point. Israel is anything but a Jewish religious entity - it is quite secular.

Yes, it’s an interesting position isn’t it?!!

 

[LRThunder]

Those Hassids are represented among those in Brooklyn, NY where I was raised, and they are indeed anti-Zionist, anti-State-of-Israel Jews. They have a point. Israel is anything but a Jewish religious entity - it is quite secular.

But by being at that conference, they’re in fact aiding and abetting a nation, or at least a government, that wants to see their own people destroyed. Do the anti-State of Israel Jews really think that Iran would only be satisfied with the destruction of the state of Israel and not try to finish what Hitler started? If so, then they are guilty of naivete at the very least and betraying their own people (and themselves) at the worst.

 

[Richardols]

Do the anti-State of Israel Jews really think that Iran would only be satisfied with the destruction of the state of Israel and not try to finish what Hitler started? If so, then they are guilty of naivete at the very least and betraying their own people (and themselves) at the worst.

Naive? No. A bit un-worldly, perhaps.

Iran is incapable of destroying Israel, now or in the future. They’re not even close to be a match in the world of nuclear weapons. And as for continuing the Holocaust - that’s beyond impossible.

Those Jews are U.S. citizens. They owe no loyalty to the State of Israel or to its citizens.

 

[b_justb]

This is such an interesting topic and a very touchy one too. I think it’s good to discuss on a world wide level.

I am so personally conflicted when it comes to the modern day nation of Israel. It is a democratic state in an area that has few, so I want to support them. Yet, Israel will not allow Christians to become citizens, even if they have Jewish ancestry. How free is that society really? And how can I support a Nation that has basically outlawed Christianity to her citizens? The Church did not recognize Israel as a State for about 50 years because the theology of the modern State of Israel is in conflict with Church teachings.

No matter what one thinks of how Israel came to be, if the State of Israel were to “be totally and peacefully dissolved" what would happen to the Jewish citizens there now? I doubt they would be allowed to remain in a place they have come to call their Nation. So where would these people go? What would happen to them? What nation would take them in? I think the answer would be no one would and I think that would be very, very bad.

I have an aunt and an uncle that live in Jerusalem. Uncle goes out every morning to roof of the Upper Room to pray as the sun comes up (Site is also the tomb of David). He tells me about how public prayer is just very common place. How people are free to express themselves freely in any faith tradition.

I am just unsure.

 

[Richardols]

And how can I support a Nation that has basically outlawed Christianity to her citizens?

A real problem where preaching the Gospel (except to non-Jews) is against the law.

So where would these people go?

There are nearly 7 million Israelis, 80% of whom are Jews. That would mean that the world would have to absorb 5.6 Jews, not all that difficult, I’d think. And, given their high level of education and skills, they’d be desirable whereever they went. The modern Israeli is in no way the Ashkinazi shtetl Jew of old Europe.

 

[MikeWM]

Do the anti-State of Israel Jews really think that Iran would only be satisfied with the destruction of the state of Israel and not try to finish what Hitler started?

It’s not an unreasonable belief. There is a Jewish community in Iran, after all, and no Holocaust-style moves have been made towards them.

Mike

 

[LRThunder]

It’s not an unreasonable belief. There is a Jewish community in Iran, after all, and no Holocaust-style moves have been made towards them.

Mike

Not yet, anyway.

 

[gilliam]

Those Hassids are represented among those in Brooklyn, NY where I was raised, and they are indeed anti-Zionist, anti-State-of-Israel Jews. They have a point. Israel is anything but a Jewish religious entity - it is quite secular.

However they are an extremely small minority of Jews. Estimates of their membership range from 5,000 to less than 1,000. Yes, that is from 5,000 to less than 1,000 members! They are definately a fringe group.

It would be like pointing to David Duke and saying he represents conservative Christians.

 

[DShreffler]

There are people in prison for disputing aspects of the “holocaust”.
David Irving, who I have met and is a brilliant and facinating speaker is sitting in an Austrian prison for making a speech disputing holocaust claims.
it is just outragious that people can be sent to prison for this. makes me think that there is something to hide.

Ernst Zundel
David Irving
Gemar Rudolf

Why would the West seek to imprison someone who tells lies? you simply refute them with facts. When you seek to SILENCE people you bring about tyranny. Truth doesn’t need to be protected in this way, only lies.

 

[LRThunder]

There are people in prison for disputing aspects of the “holocaust”.
David Irving, who I have met and is a brilliant and facinating speaker is sitting in an Austrian prison for making a speech disputing holocaust claims.
it is just outragious that people can be sent to prison for this. makes me think that there is something to hide.

Ernst Zundel
David Irving
Gemar Rudolf

Why would the West seek to imprison someone who tells lies? you simply refute them with facts. When you seek to SILENCE people you bring about tyranny. Truth doesn’t need to be protected in this way, only lies.

All the Austrian prison example proves is that Austria doesn’t have as open and liberal free speech laws as the U.S. does. Neither does Canada.

 

[Richardols]

However they are an extremely small minority of Jews. Estimates of their membership range from 5,000 to less than 1,000. Yes, that is from 5,000 to less than 1,000 members! They are definately a fringe group.

It would be like pointing to David Duke and saying he represents conservative Christians.

You are right in saying that those are a small minority of the Jews - as are all Hassids.

But, the parallel with David Duke is unfair. Those Hassids are not racists (their opposition is on religious grounds).

 

[LRThunder]

You are right in saying that those are a small minority of the Jews - as are all Hassids.

But, the parallel with David Duke is unfair. Those Hassids are not racists (their opposition is on religious grounds).

Gilliam wasn’t calling them racists, just pointing out that they’re an exception like David Duke is.

 

[Richardols]

All the Austrian prison example proves is that Austria doesn’t have as open and liberal free speech laws as the U.S. does. Neither does Canada.

In any of those countries, you can deny the existence of the United States or the reality of the American Revolution. Likewise of France and its Revolution. You can deny anything - but anything. Except where it comes to the Holocaust. The sensitivity is uncalled for.

 

[Richardols]

Gilliam wasn’t calling them racists, just pointing out that they’re an exception like David Duke is.

Using David Duke was the wrong example because of the baggage he carries.

 

[LRThunder]

In any of those countries, you can deny the existence of the United States or the reality of the American Revolution. Likewise of France and its Revolution. You can deny anything - but anything. Except where it comes to the Holocaust. The sensitivity is uncalled for.

True…that type of law shouldn’t be in place, but that doesn’t disprove the existence of the Holocaust either. That insensivity and nonsense is uncalled for as well.

 

[DShreffler]

All the Austrian prison example proves is that Austria doesn’t have as open and liberal free speech laws as the U.S. does. Neither does Canada.

Well, that’s not ALL it proves, but okay…
Looks like there are things you can say in IRAN that you can’t say in CANADA.

Tomasz Winnicki: Canada’s version

 

[Richardols]

True…that type of law shouldn’t be in place, but that doesn’t disprove the existence of the Holocaust either. That insensivity and nonsense is uncalled for as well.

To deny what Germany did shows one to be ignorant and a fool. Those people hang themselves. Let them say what they want. I certainly would get away from anyone who spouted such nonsense.

 

[LRThunder]

Well, that’s not ALL it proves, but okay…
Looks like there are things you can say in IRAN that you can’t say in CANADA.

Tomasz Winnicki

Thankfully, one can say pretty much anything here in the U.S. and not worry about being imprisoned.

But getting back to the topic at hand, it’s not prudent for Jews to be at the Holocaust denial conference unless they plan on refuting the denial. By giving credence to such a position, it helps place doubts in people’s minds, especially as Holocaust survivors pass away every year.