Why are many protestants opposed to honoring the Blessed Virgin Mary?

[Edward_J]

Bishop Fulton Sheen wrote that, our Lord Jesus came to us through the Blessed Mother and it pleases Him greatly when we go to Him through the Blessed Mother. If it pleases our Lord, it’s hard to understand why a Christian would not avail themself to the help and graces granted by our Lord through Mary. I’m not sure why many Protestants will not accept this, but let us pray to the Lord that all people will unite with the Blessed Virgin Mary in giving praise and glory to God.

 

[JRKH]

First, James, thank you for your kind words.

You are welcome

I am happy that you nit-picked. To the Lutheran (and perhaps generally protestant) ears, Kathleen’s statement you referenced,
Mary is the bridge between humanity and God., is troubling at best, as we believe Christ -fully man and fully God - is that bridge between man and God, because of the incarnation.

Yes - I hope Kathleen is OK with it as well.
So many times we can have a perfect understanding of what we are trying to convey…But the words we choose mean something quite different to someone with a very different frame of reference.

If instead, the Blessed Virgin is viewed as one who prays for us, as we should pray for each other, and as perhaps the best example of the Christian life, there seems here common ground in our honoring of her.
Jon

Indeed - I would add that her unique role in salvation history adds to her worthiness of being honored. Not to mention that - If we are all children of God - then Jesus is our brother and if Jesus is our brother then Mary is our Mother…At least it makes sense to me…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Bishop Fulton Sheen wrote that, our Lord Jesus came to us through the Blessed Mother and it pleases Him greatly when we go to Him through the Blessed Mother. If it pleases our Lord, it’s hard to understand why a Christian would not avail themselves to the help and graces granted by our Lord through Mary. I’m not sure why many Protestants will not accept this, but let us pray to the Lord that all people will unite with the Blessed Virgin Mary in giving praise and glory to God.

Amen - Amen -

But let us consider too that, while Bishop Sheen tells us that it pleases the Lord if we come to Him through Mary, the good Bishop does NOT say that it displeases our Lord if we choose to come directly to Him.

Nor could we reasonably say that it would be displeasing to Our Lady if one chooses to go directly to our Lord without going through her, for our Lady’s perfect Love for us and for her Son would preclude her being displeased, disappointed, jealous or whatever.
She would simply rejoice at another sheep, another soul coming home.

All I can say is - What a mom……:hug1:
Peace
James

 

[JonNC]

=JRKH;9517074]
Yes - I hope Kathleen is OK with it as well.
So many times we can have a perfect understanding of what we are trying to convey…But the words we choose mean something quite different to someone with a very different frame of reference.

Listening well and trying to understand is very important.

Indeed - I would add that her unique role in salvation history adds to her worthiness of being honored. Not to mention that - If we are all children of God - then Jesus is our brother and if Jesus is our brother then Mary is our Mother…At least it makes sense to me…

I agree.

Peace
James

and also with you.
Jon

 

[GaryTaylor]

I don’t believe anyone can bring man to Her Son other than the Father.

I have no issue with you belief.

 

[BListon]

The way I was taught about Mary’s intersession was that its kinda like whenever you want something from your father. You go ask your mother, and then she asks him for you.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well said - Very Biblical…

Yes - I am aware of this imagery though I am not especially fond of it from the standpoint of evangelization.

Certainly this is fine if it is helpful to ones spiritual life, but if one tries to make it exclusive - that is - it is the only way in which one comes to God, then you have a problem as Kristen points out below.
The problem that I have with the “reverse reality” that you propose above is that when Jesus came to us through Mary, Mary did not keep him hidden behind her. Jesus went out on His own, taught, performed signs, called people to himself and did not require that Mary “bring them to him”.
Certainly if a neighbor or friend, or even a complete stranger were to come to Mary and say - “Show me your son” she would gladly do so. Likewise if a person came to Mary and said, “Would you ask your son for (this) favor”, she would do that too.
But in neither case would Our Lady wish to prevent anyone from approaching Jesus directly. And this can be the problem that some protestants can have with some of our views on Mary.

Kristen - I love this response to Gary’s post. Well said and too the point.
The Catholic response would be that Mary can only do what the Father wills and permits. So if, through devotion to Our Lady, one is brought to Christ, it is because the Father willed it…and so all comes from the Father. This makes perfect sense and allows for many individual spiritual paths utilizing a number of great and powerful tools (all of which are the Father’s), such as monasticism, saintly intervention, devotion to our blessed mother, study and emulation of a particular saint or discipline etc…
All of that said, I love simplicity. I know The Father is - well - my father, that Christ is my King and my Brother, and that the Blessed Virgin is, by virtue of being my brother’s mother, is my mother too.
I remember that her last recorded words in Scripture are “Do whatever He tells you” and so, being an obedient son who loves his mother…I do just that.

Peace
James

Right we have discussed this and the wording becomes tricky when for example the statement is used “All” Grace comes through Mary. The point of contention here becomes not if all grace must come through Mary, but all Grace comes through Mary as God wills through Marys intercession.

Lets look at it through this Saint

Prayer to Mary, Mother of Grace

It becomes you to be mindful of us, as you stand near Him who granted you all graces, for you are the Mother of God and our Queen. Help us for the sake of the King, the Lord God and Master who was born of you. For this reason, you are called full of grace.

St Athanasius,

Let look at this quote… Mother of God and our Queen [what does a Queen do?] Help us for the sake of the King [how does a Queen help by mediating, She is not the King] For this reason you are called Full of Grace [lacking none] Bestow on us the richs of your Graces, Virgin full of Graces. [So Mary bestows Graces on Gods creatures, How? by Her mediation or “Intercession” to the King and explained clearly here.] Mediate or Intercede is the same understanding here.

 

[Sandalwood]

I think part of the problem is when people hear things like this from my cradle Catholic co-worker: She made a comment about only praying to Mary. I asked her why she didn’t pray to Jesus. She said because she really doesn’t know too much about Jesus and knows much more about Mary. That would definitely raise a red flag for me!!

 

[KathleenGee]

In regards to Christ coming to us from the Father…again that is one context.

God, Christ, Holy Spirit…all are of One Substance, co-eternal…3 Persons in one God…3 identities…that reveal that God in essence is relational, God is the essence of communion which further reveals the relation of Love…relational, one with another.

The carnate universe was created through Jesus Christ…The Word…but He did not receive His humanity, His body and blood from the Holy Spirit.

Christ received His flesh and blood from a woman, a mortal, a non-deity. Christ became Man through the Holy Spirit in Mary, a woman.

God is God and He could have created the human form of Christ out of nothing and have Him appear on the hillsides of Galilea, where those of Israel who were exiled had returned…the poor, the marginalized.

But instead God the Father chose Mary…and through Mary, the Lord became the Word Made Flesh.

This is extraordinary. Mary is extraordinary in the plan of salvation and yet she is a creature like us.

Mary is the bridge between us, because she is like us, and also with the Divine…by her being chosen and being created as such that the very essence of her being, her fiat, full of grace, she herself then chose God with perfect free will.

Mary is the first and foremost to follow the will of God perfectly. And she had faith, she could not see through things or read people’s hearts…but she knew Christ better than any other, including the Apostles.

Mary is the greatest of all contemplatives and at the foot of the Cross she became our mother.

It is through the Italians that I came to Mary in a way that I could connect with her. That was over 35 years ago…and it pains me when other good Christians reject her because of the issue of language and indoctrination by those who, likewise, lost their faith in the sacred Eucharist.

The Eucharist also connects us to Mary mystically, because her flesh was what was given to Christ, and it is His resurrected and glorified that nourishes us at Mass…we cannot help but recall Mary’s giving in this.

People have no idea of what they are missing…the sharing of Mary’s contemplative life with us as we mature, and how we grow that much closer to Christ and His life of grace. We encounter a greater intimacy with Christ in our devotion to Mary than if we are alone.

Aloneness is not the universal, Catholic way of faith. We encounter God in communion, not only in the Eucharist, but we encounter and draw life on the communion of the Holy Trinity…and it is this communion of the Holy Trinity that we understand our faith, that also places the proper perspective on the role of the Vicar of Christ, our Holy Father, our bishops, our compodium of faith.

For us, communion with God and with each other is the essence of our faith…and with Mary, the other surprising gift that she brings to universal Christianity is that she makes the Church a family. Note the traditional Catholic countries who address the Holy Father as Papa…far from this authoritian, distant image in language.

Mary making our church a family provides us Mother…with God as our Father.

 

[KathleenGee]

Now in another context…I am a devotee of St. Catherine of Siena, having spent much time on the first part of her Dialogue…and yes, indeed, on the passage that the CrucifiedLord is our bridge to the Father.

So in the dimension that we go to the Father through the Crucified Lord…it also has the context that we crucify our interpretations…and submit our inclinations to Holy Mother Church…

Her book on the Church is also going deeper into the sacrament of Holy Orders, and is very good in helping Christians understand the profound mysticism and power of the Eucharist…also why …priests are to be punished by the Church…and not secular powers…as to not touch Christ’s anointed ones. Today we are seeing great encroachment into the Church by secular powers, but on the other hand, we of faith are being marginalized into second or non class citizens by purpose of the convictions of our faith.

I promote the Crucified Lord on occasions…because, likewise, as in the Gospel of Luke, Christ said we are to do penance for the remission of our sins, less we likewise perish. The universal Church is real good in describing sin and its effect. The Church has the science/discipline of ascetism…the walk of perfection…again which St. Catherine discusses…

Not living a penitential life – in all its forms – is very dangerous as the road to hell is wide and easy…so I have a particular penchant for the Crucified Lord as bridge to the Father.

All the better when we take the short ladder of Mary to heaven…we entrust our walk to heaven to her, she facilitates and brings us much closer to Christ and to the Father.

I am studying right now Divine Will in its early, tentative stages under a particular archbishop, whose diocese is the origin of this new forthcoming devotion…and how Mary, the only creature to live perfectly the Divine Will, is our companion.

So I am simply referring here to the context of how we understand ‘bridge’. Many devotees see Mary in devotion as a bridge…building bridges with many different kinds of people with Mary’s familial form of Christianity.

Mary as Mother completes and incarnates our true Christian brotherhood.**

 

[Bran_Stark]

I had a co-worker tell me once “That she was just a tool, used by god” There are so many wrong things with that statement. God would not just have just anyone carry his son. He would pick someone Pure and Holy, that was made worthy of praying to.

If a person can’t believe that than they don’t believe in Jesus.

It may well be true that God chose someone specially pure and holy to carry his Son, but I don’t think it’s at all accurate to say he was obliged to. Christ could have been born from the worst sinner in the world, were that his desire. That he was born from the Blessed Virgin instead is a sign of God’s freely-given grace.

So please don’t say I don’t believe in Jesus.

 

[KathleenGee]

Brian…yes that is true, God could have chosen any person or any means or simply placed Christ now present at the Holy of Holies in the ancient temple of Jerusalem. But He did not.

We also have to take in consideration what is the mission of Jesus Christ? His mission was to be the Sacrificial Lamb to put our sins on Him, and to shed His blood for us. And He was to be nurtured in that which is sinless.

So there is an additional statement from here to say about Mary and her Immaculate Conception.

We also live in a world that has lost its sense of sin, of evil, and of the Devil. We live in a world of relativism…a dictatorship as Pope Benedict has called it. We have likewise lost the sense of absolutes.

 

[JRKH]

The way I was taught about Mary’s intersession was that its kinda like whenever you want something from your father. You go ask your mother, and then she asks him for you.

Yes I’ve heard that one too. Of course what is not said here is that if you want to you most certainly CAN go directly to your father and ask…Just depends on who you are more comfortable talking to…

I think part of the problem is when people hear things like this from my cradle Catholic co-worker: She made a comment about only praying to Mary. I asked her why she didn’t pray to Jesus. She said because she really doesn’t know too much about Jesus and knows much more about Mary. That would definitely raise a red flag for me!!

As sad commentary…I think such things make Our Heavenly Mother sad…

However -

A wonderful opportunity to begin dialogue so that she does learn about Jesus and the Father too, since by Jesus command (and remember that Mary said “Do whatever He tells you…”) - by Jesus’ command we are to pray - “Our Father who art in heaven…”

Peace
James

 

[Kristin234]

I have no issue with you belief.

Just to make what I meant clear. I know God works through people, and if God chose Mary to draw others in then I believe He does do that. I just don’t believe it is Mary who does the drawing in.

 

[KathleenGee]

Kristin…true comment…it is the Holy Spirit through the Resurrected Lord Who draws ALL men to Himself…not just Christian believers.

Also note that Mary is the carnate spouse of the Holy Spirit…so there is a true communion between the Holy Trinity and our Blessed Mother…

From these comments you can see we are delving into the mystery – and depth of faith.

 

[JRKH]

Just to make what I meant clear. I know God works through people, and if God chose Mary to draw others in then I believe He does do that. I just don’t believe it is Mary who does the drawing in.

Nice post, but I do think that we can say that Mary can and does draw people in…but the source of the draw is God…
So long as that understanding exists there can be no danger of giving Mary “too much” honor…

Peace
James

 

[GaryTaylor]

It is the Holy Spirit through the Resurrected Lord Who draws ALL men to Himself…not just Christian believers.

Also note that Mary is the carnate spouse of the Holy Spirit…so there is a true communion between the Holy Trinity and our Blessed Mother…

From these comments you can see we are delving into the mystery – and depth of faith.

Very accurate, has that familar ring of truth to it.

 

[BListon]

Yes I’ve heard that one too. Of course what is not said here is that if you want to you most certainly CAN go directly to your father and ask…Just depends on who you are more comfortable talking to…

My thoughts exactly:thumbsup:

 

[Luvtosew]

Why are many protestants opposed to honoring the Blessed Virgin Mary?

Non of the non RC I know dont honor the BVM, but their focus is on our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who suffered and died on the cross for our salvation, our one and only mediator who now is seated on his throne in heaven and is King of the Earth and will come again to judge the living and the dead= God himself.

 

[KathleenGee]

Ouch…we also see Jesus Christ as the sole mediator…and He is our sole focus at daily Mass, He alone Who intercedes for us to the Father…

The focus is rather the communion of saints who pray for us, and more so,…fulfilling the Christian brotherhood and communion…that we are a family…a mother must always be there to have a family…and we have Mary…who prays for us and walks with us in Jesus.