Why are muslims so violent?

[Sister_Amy]

Before we start discussing Palestine, Afghanistan, and what have you of places, why not start asking WHO was oppressing the Caliphs when they waged oppressive wars to spread Islam, and what where the people killed if not innocent civilians?

I think… and I could be wrong… but I really think you just have an axe to grind and aren’t interested in discussing much of anything.

 

[ralphinal]

Good question. Who is fighting in Afghanistan? Who is dying in Afghanistan? And why?

As far as I’m aware, who you have fighting in Afghanistan–you’ve got coalition troops, you’ve got afghani tribal militias, you’ve got the sham afghani gov’t fighting, you’ve got pakistani fighters, and if you believe the US gov’t, you might even have al-qaeda fighting there.

And Afghani civilians getting killed… but they’re not fighting. They were getting married. :bighanky:

Another wedding attack

Children dying

Let us start at square one. What put US and coalition forces in Afganistan?

 

[tomarin]

Clearly, you don’t know your history.

That’s no way to start a conversation! Take care, Jacques.

 

[inJESUS]

I think… and I could be wrong… but I really think you just have an axe to grind and aren’t interested in discussing much of anything.

what is better to discuss, why Muslims in x or y country are being violent *despite *Islam as you say, or the best Islamic figures who oppressed and killed to spread Islam to see whther wars/oppression/humiliation/killing the innocent is inherent to Islamic teachings or not?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Let us start at square one. What put US and coalition forces in Afganistan?

Square One. When was the last time Afghanistan had a legitimate, stable government?

 

[ralphinal]

Square One. When was the last time Afghanistan had a legitimate, stable government?

I have no idea. I would say that the Taliban was stable, but I am not sure how legitimate…

And I do not know enough about the time prior to the Soviet invasion

 

[Sister_Amy]

what is better to discuss, why Muslims in x or y country are being violent *despite *Islam as you say, or the best Islamic figures who oppressed and killed to spread Islam to see whther wars/oppression/humiliation/killing the innocent is inherent to Islamic teachings or not?

I think you should look at the TEACHINGS of Islam. That’s really the only thing that matters to me.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I have no idea. I would say that the Taliban was stable, but I am not sure how legitimate…

And I do not know enough about the time prior to the Soviet invasion

Look at the time prior to the Soviet invasion. there was a string of very unstable governments before that. The last stable and legitimate governance ended in 1973, before which there had been only about 40 years of relative stability. The Taliban weren’t really stable or legitimate, and were only in power for 6 or 7 years.

Afghanistan is not like any other country. It is a land and a people that have been suffering for many decades.

 

[ralphinal]

Look at the time prior to the Soviet invasion. there was a string of very unstable governments before that. The last stable and legitimate governance ended in 1973, before which there had been only about 40 years of relative stability. The Taliban weren’t really stable or legitimate, and were only in power for 6 or 7 years.

Afghanistan is not like any other country. It is a land and a people that have been suffering for many decades.

Ok. I have no reason to dispute any of that.

If we still look at them, what caused the US to enter Afganistan?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Ok. I have no reason to dispute any of that.

If we still look at them, what caused the US to enter Afganistan?

I’ve forgotten where we were going with this discussion, and I’ve got to leave… sorry. I’ll be back on Friday (God willing) if you want to remind me what we were talking about and direct me back… I don’t think I’ll be on later tonight or tomorrow. Sorry!

 

[ralphinal]

I’ve forgotten where we were going with this discussion, and I’ve got to leave… sorry. I’ll be back on Friday (God willing) if you want to remind me what we were talking about and direct me back… I don’t think I’ll be on later tonight or tomorrow. Sorry!

No problem. We can start back if I remember. I hope you have a nice week

 

[inJESUS]

Since each country has its own history, politics, economy, it’d be hard to discuss them all when it comes to violence in islam because replies like “not real islam”, or “they defend themselves” or “you started first” will lead to countless pages of fruitless back and forth discussions, that is why i say go back in history to whom Muslims consider as “true Muslims” , the Caliphs, and assess their oppressive wars, to see if violence is inherent to Islam or not.

 

[cyberjacques]

That’s no way to start a conversation! Take care, Jacques.

I don’t believe for a second that you’re thin-skinned enough to have been offended by that. How about you just respond to my correction?

 

[cathopologist]

I think you should turn the mirror on yourselves.

Christians, Jews & Muslims lived in harmony under the Caliphate for hundreds of years.

Who started the Crusades? Who continues the Crusades today?

Where did you get your info from? Site authors and references.

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Of course I agree, that’s why I said it. The rest of the time it’s their specific mission to kill infidel civilians. And Islam explicitly instructs them to do so.

You mean like the Christians in Lebanon? Who were living peacefully with Muslims, until the Muslims decided they had enough power to attack their neighbors? Who was being slaughtered by militias then? Who’s daughters were attacked and raped then? Who had to hide in holes in the ground while their children starved then? I’ll give you one guess.
.

To the underlined part. Isnt funny how Muslims are the ones who die the most because of these jihadis.

Have you ever heard of the Shabra SHatilia massacre?

Sorry, but I don’t believe this at all. The media, the radical left-wing media.

Blaming the Media are we. Did you forget about talk radio, Fox News, and NewsMax Magazine? Can you not distinguish clear ideological differences between Fareed Zakaria and Morty Zucker? Whats with all the ads i see in magazines for the Christian Martyrs or the ISrael FLAME organization that seeks to place all the blame on Palestinians?

Yes I forgot to mention the violence in Somalia, Algeria, and Sudan.

Now you’re just being silly. Christians don’t kill people in the name of their religion in America. Muslims have killed tens of thousands of people in the name of Islam in the past 50 years.

Have you heard of the Christian Identity Movement, or what about people who bomb abortion clinincs in the name of Christianity? You might not agree with Planned Parent hood with their ideology but does that give someone the right to bomb one of their clinics?

Somalia, doesnt have a government its the Somalians have been divided into five seperate regions as a result of colonialism. THere are Muslim Extremist in Algeria might friend who is Christian who converted to Islam will tell you his Unlce was an muslim extremist. As far as Darfur is concerned I thought it was more about race. Think about it you have a mostly Arab north with a Dark Skinned south. My friend who was from the Sudan said his grandmother used to say derogatory comments to a black actor when she saw him on the tv.

First, the country did discrimate against them in the law and this did not end until the 1960s. However, they did not murder people on the subways then.

And so Islam teaches that discrimination justifies the murder of women and children. Yours is definately a noble and peaceful religion.

Have you ever heard of the Watts riots. To say that blacks simply humbled themselves and didnt engage in violence throughout the history of the oppression is misguided.

As far as your second point is considered I’d like to see some citations because from what I remember reading the Prophet specifically prohibited the killing of women when he was in battle and noticed a women was dead.

Clearly, you don’t know your history. The Maronite Christians in Lebanon were taken by surprise when the Muslims attacked. For more than 5 years, they had to hide in the rubble of their former homes, scavenging for food. The tiny number of them who were armed weren’t able to do anything, since the Muslim forces were being reinforced by Syria, I believe it was. Israel finally decided to help them, and invaded, pushing past the Muslim forces in order to rescue as many civilians as possible. And they even rescued the injured Muslims. Then, they reorganized the few Lebanese Christians that had military training and gave them better weapons in order to defend themselves long enough to get more civilians to safety. And that was after Lebanon, the Muslims and the Christians, had made their disdain for Israel quite clear. They still helped.

Again look up Shabra and Shatilia Massacre.

Perhaps Islam is the most violent religion in the world. But how would you go about proving it you would first have to do a content analysis on the holy text and use the original language and then you could go to supplementary text and then take a sample of history and look at the current events that took place over the course of a century.

 

[paarsurrey]

But how would you go about proving it **you would first have to do a content analysis on the holy text **and use the original language and then you could go to supplementary text and then take a sample of history and look at the current events that took place over the course of a century.

Hi

You are right.

**“you would first have to do a content analysis on the holy text” **

Unelss one proves from Quran, that it gives the teachings of becoming violent, it would be illogical to say that Islam/Quran/Muhammad is violent.

Thanks

 

[cyberjacques]

Blaming the Media are we. Did you forget about talk radio, Fox News, and NewsMax Magazine? Can you not distinguish clear ideological differences between Fareed Zakaria and Morty Zucker? Whats with all the ads i see in magazines for the Christian Martyrs or the ISrael FLAME organization that seeks to place all the blame on Palestinians?

So, three relatively conservative news outlets out of the hundreds of liberal ones, and you think you’ve made a point? People always point to Fox News, but never mention MSNBC or CNN or any of the dozens of others, and that’s just in the U.S. And while I’ll admit that Fox News leans slightly to the right, that’s hardly unreasonable with the rest leaning so absurdly far to the left. For every conservative media outlet you show me, I’ll show you a hundred liberal ones, how about that?

Perhaps Islam is the most violent religion in the world. But how would you go about proving it you would first have to do a content analysis on the holy text and use the original language and then you could go to supplementary text and then take a sample of history and look at the current events that took place over the course of a century.

Someone has already done that. There’s a book called The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades. It examines all that and more, from the beginning of Islam up until now.

 

[swariffin]

Hi

You are right.

**“you would first have to do a content analysis on the holy text” **

Unelss one proves from Quran, that it gives the teachings of becoming violent, it would be illogical to say that Islam/Quran/Muhammad is violent.

Thanks

When it comes to bible, content analysis on the holy text is the thing you failed to do, brother.

 

[swariffin]

Your way?

No. God’s way. Submit to God. Obey God.

Submit to God? Yes. According to Islamic way? No. You people has strange way of submission.

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

So, three relatively conservative news outlets out of the hundreds of liberal ones, and you think you’ve made a point? People always point to Fox News, but never mention MSNBC or CNN or any of the dozens of others, and that’s just in the U.S. And while I’ll admit that Fox News leans slightly to the right, that’s hardly unreasonable with the rest leaning so absurdly far to the left. For every conservative media outlet you show me, I’ll show you a hundred liberal ones, how about that

Unless you can point to studies from Media critics and scholars that provide clear empirical evidence that the media is more left than right rather than speculation I’ll believe you.

You also have to understand that the media is multifaceted, Its not just TV, newspapers and magazines you also have to think of Movies, the internet and books as well. Some conservatives make it seem as if the left has a hegemony over the media and that all other voices are silient.

Your comments remind me of my professors comments in a way. He was commenting on the media basically saying that because the media was owned by big corporations and CEOS, in other words agents of capitalism, then its obvious they are conservative. I told him that just because they are large corporations and are economically conservative doesnt mean that everything they stand for is conservative. There are alot of corporations that are taking into consideration the effects of their ecological footprints when it comes to producing goods, they also realize the contributions gays have made to the economy.

YOu see its more complicated then you would like to believe my friend. (Disclaimer; no I am not a Muslim nor a John McCain Supporter).

Most the news I hear of Muslims is car bombing and terrorist attacks even when I read or hear about “Non-Violent” terrorist groups like CAIR its always in the context of how they are financing a terrorist organization. There are many Islamic Movements and thinkers who are liberal and dont get the spotlight not because the media is right or left, but because sensationalism sells.

I have to be honest though I have not been paying attention to the news in the last few months because of school so things might have changed.