Why are people mormon considering it is obvioulsy fabricated?

[PaulDupre]

Here’s the thing: Catholics wear, and treat with great reverence, crucifixes, rosaries and crosses. They have icons/statues in their homes, and small altars with candles in front of which they pray. Their clergy has specific clothing to wear, each item of which has a theological meaning, and symbolizes something special. I’m quite certain that you see nothing odd, silly or ludicrous about any of that, and you would be quite right. There isn’t. Whatever spiritual symbol you use should be treated with respect, not only by you, but by everybody else, too—because they ARE your religious symbols; they all help you in your faith, remind you of your beliefs, and build your sense of belonging and community. All those things are good things.

I agree. I have no problem with liturgical clothing (or underclothing). You are quite correct that it is similar to a Catholic scapular, meant to remind you of your beliefs and covenants.

Besides, they are extremely comfortable, cool in the summer (no chaffing) and warm in the winter–ensuring modest dress for men and women alike, and ensure that no LDS woman who wears them EVER needs to worry about panty lines–and ‘plumber’s crack’ isn’t something a Mormon ever has to worry about. That’s…just bonus.

Well, I remember the old one-piece cotton garments I had to wear on my mission to Taiwan (where it was about a billion degrees and 90+% humidity) under my black dress slacks, white shirt and tie. We were always soaking wet under our clothes. That was really miserable and all the missionaries had skin fungus problems. I’m glad for you that you have the newer one-piece garments made of more breatheable fabric.

Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

True, though unless someone does the LDS temple ordinances, whether in this life or the next, they won’t be exalted. And yes, Jesus Christ does minister to the Terrestrial Kingdom, and the Holy Ghost ministers to the Telestial Kingdom, however I have seen a few LDS say that it is a sort of “damnation” because their eternal progression to exaltation is cut off.

Brigham Young taught: “Salvation without exaltation is damnation”.

 

[RebeccaJ]

That depends entirely upon who is administering it and who is receiving it, don’t you think?

lost me

 

[kikkichan]

There’s another reason for not partaking in other faith’s communion. i.e., Even though I might be motivated by courtesy to the hosting church, by participating in communion I’d be implicitly stating that I accepted the validity of the other church’s sacrament, and that would be a claim contrary to the Catholic church’s teachings. And to a degree, that goes with “active participation” at another church’s service[1].

[1]The Faith Explained, L. Trese, p220

–kc

…
I think…perhaps I am putting this a bit strongly, but I do believe it…that for me to take communion in a Catholic service would be showing extreme disrespect to those with me, the service, Communion and the idea behind it. It’s saying to those with me that I thought so little of their faith that I could mock it with impunity. Communion to you is literally partaking of the body and blood of Christ. For me to take it would be very wrong.

By the same token, it would be equally wrong for you, a Catholic, to take the Sacrament in one of our meetings.
…

 

[Religio71]

So I found an old newspaper I saved from my undergrad school, Georgetown, which is a Catholic university. It had an interesting article about life as a Mormon at a Jesuit University. Here it is:

media.www.thegeorgetownindependent.com/media/storage/paper136/news/2007/03/28/News/The-Mormon.Minority-2808576.shtml

Note that Georgetown is just over 50% Catholic, unlike Notre Dame.

 

[wademann]

No she won’t. If she goes for counseling, she will be told that marriage is sacred. She chose to marry a non-Mormon, and divorcing him because he remains a non-Mormon is not good enough as a reason.

I am married to a non-mormon, when I told my bishop that paying my tithing was causing friction in my marriage, he said that it was OK to not pay.

 

[why_me]

I think what you might be missing in some of these posts, is the fact that why me claims to be Catholic and LDS, and his obvious anti-Catholic posts are no longer amusing. All one has to do is look at some of the threads he has started here, or at MADB, or some of his posts on various threads on both.

I am far from anti-mormon, but I am surely anti-why me.

Why me’s constant pot shots at the Catholic Church have worn thin with many posters, us included. He is as much anti-Catholic as he accuses many on here of being anti-Mormon.

Even though a thread has been started on this, let me ask you: In your opinion, can a person be both LDS and Catholic?

I do not wear temple garments. I haven’t worn temple garments in years. I have never started an anticatholic thread at MAD. My posts have always been supportive of the catholic church on that board. And even though you may find that hard to believe, it is the truth.

I have brought up on these threads that if a catholic blasts the lds church or any other church they will leave themselves open to attack too. I have said over and over again that no church is perfect since they are made up human beings who can be quite imperfect. Now can one be catholic and lds? Why not. I was born catholic and christened in the catholic church at birth. I made my communion and confirmation. I was baptised into the mormon faith at 18. That makes me both mormon and catholic. Am I right?

 

[why_me]

I am married to a non-mormon, when I told my bishop that paying my tithing was causing friction in my marriage, he said that it was OK to not pay.

I think that many catholics on this forum do not understand that the mormon bishop is a lay person with a full time job as a plumber, office worker, cale salesman etc. And many of his decisions may not conform to other bishop decisions. You had a good bishop. However, I would think that the bishop would tell you to pay your tithing but on the other hand, he may tell you not to pay in order to protect your marriage. Much depends on the bishop and what he thinks is best for you. The question: will you be allowed to have a temple recommend if you do not pay your tithing? I hope so.

 

[why_me]

The Devil created what appears
to be good. To illustrate my point, I refer you to the story of Eve being tempted in the Garden of Eden. If you are familiar with it, you will know that the serpent mixed truth in with lies. In doing so he made the trap all the more insideous and effective. He promised that they would not die (lie) and that they would be as gods, knowing good and evil (truth). Let’s examine your list.
1.Pray to heavenly father often. The LDS concept of God is incorrect. Rather than teaching of the trinity they teach of multiple gods when the Bible makes it clear that there is only one God.
2. Remain chaste That is truth, mixed in to help create confusion.
3. Obey the commandments Also truth.
4. Read the Scriptures. Correction. Read what the LDS view as scripture, which can include the Book Of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, the Pearl Of Great Price, and words spoken by Church Leaders. Of course the bible is included in the list, but with footnotes leading to a “Joseph Smith Translation” that adds verses and even whole passages. These notes also reordered other verses. All of this was done to back up LDS teachings which otherwise would appear to be incorrect.(i.e. "In my Father’s house there are many mansions was changed via footnote to say “there are many kingdoms,” undoubtedly to lend credibility to the teaching about different heavens.

I could go on and on, but That might not be kind to readers. However, I will encourage careful research ( I say careful because some who take issue with Mormonism have credibility problems themselves, like Ed Decker for instance). In a nutshell: The Devil only needs to add a little error in order to lead souls from the truth, which is Jesus Christ.

Has Mormonism been proven wrong beyond a doubt? No. Though a thorough examination does show it to be suspect.

My point is simple: Mormons by and large lead good christian lives. They show no signs of being under the influence of satan. In fact just the opposite. They are a god fearing people and by this I mean that they respect the word of god. You seem to forget that the catechism is full of thoughts instituted by past saints. And catholics do read what these early fathers have said. And I find that okay. But to claim that the devil is behind the lds church would be very disrespectful to mormons.

However, would you also say that the devil is behind the luthern church, the methodist church, the baptist church etc? If so, then at least you would be consistent.

 

[why_me]

in one thread on MADB, whyme saw no problem with one partaking in the Eucharist and holding a temple recommend. This is blasphemy in both the LDS Church and the Catholic Church. I’m guessing he doesn’t even believe in the Real Presence, since that is what the Eucharist is about/is. If you believe in the Real Presence, then you believe in the authority of the Catholic Church to cause it to occur. But then to hold a temple recommend, you affirm the restoration and the authority of the LDS prophet, apostles, and priesthood.



His logic is basically, if one can find beauty in both faiths, then why not break the rules of both?

I don’t hold a temple recommend. And I don’t think that I ever said such a thing because I don’t hold a recommend. You may have confused me with Tsuzuki who used to post here too and claim to be both catholic and mormon.

I break no rules so that is not my logic.

 

[why_me]

You can read all about the different Saints, but if none of it sinks in, it’s not doing you any good.

I think that it has sunk in. I have shown a lot of mercy on this forum when dealing with posters who attack the lds church. I also believe in social justice and Therese’s little way has led me to show kindness to those who hate the lds church. But I think that the question needs to be put to the catholic posters who attack the lds church and mock what others believe. That is not the little way and not showing mercy.

 

[why_me]

whyme actually created a thread on MADB all about how “nice” this website is, as in, how because Catholic Answers wants to proclaim the Truth of the Catholic Faith, and what we perceive as the falsehoods of another, it is anti-Mormon. He has a couple of these threads about how “not nice” we are over here. Newsflash: Catholicism believes that it is the Church of Jesus Christ. We believe that we are the Church founded by Christ, continuing the fullness of the Gospel. Therefore, we see all other faiths as being based in non-truth. That is especially true for the LDS Church, which says that Christianity apostasized, and therefore they are the restoration of true Christianity. We don’t believe that, and that is why we discuss what we see as the falsehoods of the LDS Church. While many may be nice people, being nice doesn’t mean salvation. So if you don’t like us saying that the LDS Church is based on falsehoods, which, if we are to actually *believe * Catholic doctrine, then you can always go back to MADB. The very statement that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ, with the fullness of the Gospel, means that the LDS Church is not God-given. Plain and simple.

You should always defend your Faith no matter what. Look at the martyrs of the Church. It’s not “oh, I don’t need to defend it here”. You defend Mormonism always, but never defend Catholicism. You say the Mormon truth claims are strong and powerful, and they feel the Holy Spirit. We haven’t seen you say that to the Mormons here in reference to Catholicism.

Oh well, what can we expect from someone whose avatar on MADB is Joseph Smith.

 

[why_me]

whyme actually created a thread on MADB all about how “nice” this website is, as in, how because Catholic Answers wants to proclaim the Truth of the Catholic Faith, and what we perceive as the falsehoods of another, it is anti-Mormon. He has a couple of these threads about how “not nice” we are over here. Newsflash:

Oh well, what can we expect from someone whose avatar on MADB is Joseph Smith.

That is true. I have made comments about how catholic posters attack the lds church. But you are rather new here. You should have been here two years ago when it was really bad. The mocking and hate was rampant toward the lds church. Now it has modified and the more hateful posters have disappeard or had a slight change of heart and show a little more kindness.

I like Joseph Smith. He was an American revolutionary who had a vision. He did great things and he also made mistakes. And I think that many religious scholars would consider him to be a great american religious thinker.

 

[Religio71]

That is true. I have made comments about how catholic posters attack the lds church. But you are rather new here. You should have been here two years ago when it was really bad. The mocking and hate was rampant toward the lds church. Now it has modified and the more hateful posters have disappeard or had a slight change of heart and show a little more kindness.

I like Joseph Smith. He was an American revolutionary who had a vision. He did great things and he also made mistakes. And I think that many religious scholars would consider him to be a great american religious thinker.

whyme, I may have registered this year, but I’ve been reading both the main site and the forum LONG before that. And I think you make a good point-“toward the lds church”. I’m sorry if this isn’t acceptable for you, but as Catholics, we see the LDS Church as a church based on a false premise that makes no sense, since we firmly believe that the Catholic Church is the Church of Christ, and has always been. Therefore while we like that generally LDS are Christians like protestants, in that they do worship Christ and generally accept that He died for us, all of the novel beliefs that come with that are patently false, including the apostasy, God with a body of flesh and bones, the Eucharist is symbolic, it having the only priesthood authority, God the Father having a wife the Heavenly Mother, baptism of the dead, temples, sealings, the Endowment, new scripture, new revelations, etc. Therefore, it is just really disturbing to Catholics, and I’m sure LDS, that you would claim to be Catholic, and apparently take Communion, which as Catholics, as I hope you know, we believe not only IS the body and blood of Christ, but symbolizes our unity in the one Faith, the Catholic Faith. As a “Catholic”, by being baptized into another religion, which claims that only it has the priesthood authority, and that traditional Christianity is apostasized, you do know that you incur excommunication latae sententiae? Or does that not matter to you, as it’s ok to break the rules of religions, as long as you feel nice about it.

And yes, Joseph Smith was a visionary. He had a vision that said all other churches, including the Catholic Church are "**all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” ** For those that don’t know, this is in LDS Scripture. Joseph Smith-History 1. I don’t know how one can belong to a church whose visionary said this, then go to one of those “corrupt” churches and claim to believe it is true. Unless one is picking and choosing what they believe to feel good about it.

 

[Religio71]

I do not wear temple garments. I haven’t worn temple garments in years. I have never started an anticatholic thread at MAD. My posts have always been supportive of the catholic church on that board. And even though you may find that hard to believe, it is the truth.

I have brought up on these threads that if a catholic blasts the lds church or any other church they will leave themselves open to attack too. I have said over and over again that no church is perfect since they are made up human beings who can be quite imperfect. Now can one be catholic and lds? Why not. I was born catholic and christened in the catholic church at birth. I made my communion and confirmation. I was baptised into the mormon faith at 18. That makes me both mormon and catholic. Am I right?

No it doesn’t. and here is why:

Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in ⇒ can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.

By being baptized into the LDS faith, or any other non-Catholic or Orthodox faith, you are now excommunicated latae sententiae. But of course, if you don’t believe in the totality of Catholicism, which is apparent that you don’t, this is ok with you. Because if you believe you’re a Catholic, or an apostle, or a prophet, that’s all that matters, not what the actual Truth that our faiths teach says.

 

[Religio71]

My point is simple: Mormons by and large lead good christian lives. They show no signs of being under the influence of satan. In fact just the opposite. They are a god fearing people and by this I mean that they respect the word of god. You seem to forget that the catechism is full of thoughts instituted by past saints. And catholics do read what these early fathers have said. And I find that okay. But to claim that the devil is behind the lds church would be very disrespectful to mormons.

However, would you also say that the devil is behind the luthern church, the methodist church, the baptist church etc? If so, then at least you would be consistent.

No one said that Mormons are “under the influence of satan”

Yes yes, Mormons are good people, nice, etc. They do respect the Bible, and believe in Christ. Our whole point is that, as we have said multiple times, as Catholics, we believe our Church is the only Church of Christ, with the fullness of Truth, and all other religions are based in falsehoods, though having various elements of the truth. Therefore, we do not agree with the innovations of other religions, including the LDS faith. The LDS Church especially creates an “either/or” situation, as either the LDS Church alone has priesthood authority, or it doesn’t. Rightly, as Catholics, we believe that it doesn’t, and all of it’s innovative beliefs are false. You have a problem with us pointing out this fact of our belief, since it should be okay to believe whatever you want, as long as we’re nice. Right? Jesus Christ would never say such a thing, if you remember the Great Commission.

Somehow, you are okay with believing simultaneously that the LDS Church has the priesthood authority and that an apostasy from the faith occurred, and that the Catholic Church has some kind of authority, if you believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist and that our priests and bishops can cause that to occur. But then, the LDS Church believes that it is symbolic, and they have the priesthood authority, so…

 

[SecretBeliever]

Well, from reading the rest of this thread I guess people think whyme is a fence-sitter, but his/her reply to my post about “recovering Mormons” had a website for “recovering Catholics”. Fair enough; I don’t guess this will have any impact on whyme, but for the rest of you, understand that there is a great difference between the two. Recovering Catholics may recount the horrors of being in the church and how they came to terms with their experiences (possibly to the detriment of their salvation!). Their experiences seem to uncover their unwillingness to obey the Church’s teachings, but the Church was founded in fact by Jesus Christ the Son of God and it cannot teach wrongly, whereas there are factual accounts of the con man background of Joseph Smith, his dabbling with Masonry, his laughable attempts to write holy books with oops! French words intermingled with supposed ancient texts, and the list goes on.

Again, for anyone who is seriously seeking, delve into these websites that I’d posted before and really understand who is conning whom. I urge you to at least be open to the possibility that you’re being scammed. Please, for the sake of your soul.

 

[Jerusha]

Whyme is not a good Mormon, and he is definitely not a Catholic. I prefer to just ignore him. The more attention you give him, the more whyme whines. :crying: It is just a new take on the Mormon persecution complex. I guarantee you, he is unique among LDS. Compare him to Parker and Diana, who are consistently anti-Catholic.

 

[twopekinguys]

I do not wear temple garments. I haven’t worn temple garments in years. I have never started an anticatholic thread at MAD. My posts have always been supportive of the catholic church on that board. And even though you may find that hard to believe, it is the truth.

I have brought up on these threads that if a catholic blasts the lds church or any other church they will leave themselves open to attack too. I have said over and over again that no church is perfect since they are made up human beings who can be quite imperfect. Now can one be catholic and lds? Why not. I was born catholic and christened in the catholic church at birth. I made my communion and confirmation. I was baptised into the mormon faith at 18. That makes me both mormon and catholic. Am I right?

No, you are not right. By being baptized into the mormon faith, you are now mormon., and cannot practice both faiths.

But you have been told that before, you just refuse to accept it. I think you have an issue with comprehension.

I also believe that by you trying to claim both faiths, you are doing a great disservice to both communities, and to your children. You are telling everyone, that the rules don’t apply to you, How pitiful.

How have i blasted the lds church? Your attack on us was totally unwarranted and uncalled for, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Unless you offer a sincere apology for that, I have nothing further to say to you whatsoever.

I have nothing further to say to you whatsoever.

 

[ParkerD]

Well, from reading the rest of this thread I guess people think whyme is a fence-sitter, but his/her reply to my post about “recovering Mormons” had a website for “recovering Catholics”. Fair enough; I don’t guess this will have any impact on whyme, but for the rest of you, understand that there is a great difference between the two. Recovering Catholics may recount the horrors of being in the church and how they came to terms with their experiences (possibly to the detriment of their salvation!). Their experiences seem to uncover their unwillingness to obey the Church’s teachings, but the Church was founded in fact by Jesus Christ the Son of God and it cannot teach wrongly, whereas there are factual accounts of the con man background of Joseph Smith, his dabbling with Masonry, his laughable attempts to write holy books with oops! French words intermingled with supposed ancient texts, and the list goes on.

Again, for anyone who is seriously seeking, delve into these websites that I’d posted before and really understand who is conning whom. I urge you to at least be open to the possibility that you’re being scammed. Please, for the sake of your soul.

This is the kind of post I had talked about early on in this thread, about a religious belief based on fear. The New Testament teaches of religion based on faith, not fear. Joseph Smith sought and received true religion based on faith, not fear. Truth is empowered by faith, not fear. As one receives the fruits of the Spirit and feels the power of change and sanctification working in their own life, they have a knowledge that can’t be influenced by the kind of fear-based “warning” that comes from those who have been brought up to fear God’s wrath rather than to rejoice in God’s love for all humankind, and His loving tenderness toward their progress in life and their attempts to live their lives with love in their hearts for everyone they meet. I love the phrase, “brethren, adieu.” I think it evokes love and tenderness and a fond farewell better than any other word that could have been used in that phrase.