Why are people so against life teen mass?

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I don’t knkow in the US is that is a “vast majority” that would imply well over 50% But I know that I would love to be in one of those parishes rather than the “lifeteen” music at my parish. Kinda like I would rather eat plain bread than doggie doo.
I won’t sit back and ignore this.

The wonderful, faith-filled, self-sacrificing teenagers in our parish who do the music for our excellent (and liturgically-correct) Life Teen Mass deserve better than to have their music called “doggie doo.” Of all the nerve. What a terrible thing to say about these great kids and their sponsors.

Several of our Life Teen mass musicians have discerned vocations.

Take it back, Matt33.

And the rest of you–please use your charitable voices when you talk about the teenagers and their sponsors in my parish. How dare you judge all Life Teen Masses by the bad ones that you have seen? That’s no better than claiming that all priests are perverts because a few are.
 
I won’t sit back and ignore this.

The wonderful, faith-filled, self-sacrificing teenagers in our parish who do the music for our excellent (and liturgically-correct) Life Teen Mass deserve better than to have their music called “doggie doo.” Of all the nerve. What a terrible thing to say about these great kids and their sponsors.

Several of our Life Teen mass musicians have discerned vocations.
That’s wonderful! Did they hinge their decisions on the inclusion of pop and rock music styles used in Mass?
 
That’s wonderful! Did they hinge their decisions on the inclusion of pop and rock music styles used in Mass?
I have no idea. The work of the Holy Spirit is not something that I can understand.
 
Cat, you and I have crossed over this before. Forty years ago my classmates at a Catholic boy’s high school tried to “push the envelope” to see just how far they could get after Vatican II. I do not question the Holy Spirit but if you can please tell me how the Holy Spirit led them to include playing Sounds of Silence and Bridge over Troubled Waters at my high school graduation Mass in May of 1969, I will forever be in your debt.

The actual, raw fact, is that Frank and Gary et al pushed their agenda against the tradiditional choir for whatever reasons. I rather doubt that the Holy Spirit was moving them in any way shape or form. If you knew Frank and Gary et al, they were as cynical as they came in 1969 and are as cynical as they come today. I’m looking forward to my class’s 40th anniversary in May to discuss this with my old friends. They are my friends and I have kept in touch with them over the years. The Holy Spirit moves as He will but caveat emptor.

I’d like to think the Holy Spirit had something to do with me singing in the cathedral choir since '83 and singing the chants I learned as a kid, the polyphony I picked up in glee club in high school and all of the wondrous sacred motets I’ve learned in Latin and from the English church since then. We traditional folks don’t get too much “playing time” - the Holy Spirit only seems to move at life teen masses.

I do not mean this to sound harsh, Cat but the Holy Spirit is free to move where He wants. LIfe teen is not the be all and end all of the Holy Spirit. He sings to me in the chant of my ancestors. His chants tell me of the sacrifice of my Irish ancestors. He sings to me in the obviously catholic polyphony of the English Renaissance knowing full well that the composers were subject to death. Yes, Cat, we sing English Renaissance motets written by hidden Catholic composers.

I LIKE the music of my ancestors. Frank and Gary started this stuff. Gary’s mom was school secretary. They got away with singing Simon and Garfunkle in 1969 and now everything goes.

I must respectfully disagree with you Cat. The Holy Spirit may have moved in Taize, but He was most assuredly not there in May of 1969 when we sang Simon and Garfunkle at my high school graduation. I wouldn’t be here 40 years later complaining.
 
I don’t knkow in the US is that is a “vast majority” that would imply well over 50% But I know that I would love to be in one of those parishes rather than the “lifeteen” music at my parish. Kinda like I would rather eat plain bread than doggie doo.
Totally agree as I can’t stand teen Masses, but I still think some of their more folksy tunes would indeed meet liturgical status. By vast majority, in this case, I’m referring to what must be over 95% of parishes.
 
I won’t sit back and ignore this.

The wonderful, faith-filled, self-sacrificing teenagers in our parish who do the music for our excellent (and liturgically-correct) Life Teen Mass deserve better than to have their music called “doggie doo.” Of all the nerve. What a terrible thing to say about these great kids and their sponsors.

Several of our Life Teen mass musicians have discerned vocations.

Take it back, Matt33.

And the rest of you–please use your charitable voices when you talk about the teenagers and their sponsors in my parish. How dare you judge all Life Teen Masses by the bad ones that you have seen? That’s no better than claiming that all priests are perverts because a few are.
Whoa ther nelley… I wasnt even talking about your parish I specificlly said mine, and no I wont take it back because you have no idea what my parish is like, it is awful. But it isnt just my parish come on up to Boise or Seattle sometime, I can show you some downright embarassing things. Also I didn’t call the music doggie doo, I used an analogy, and that is different. Perhaps you are very emotional about this but your reaction is off. Now please you take it back.
 
A nice To Jesus Christ, our Sovereign KIng would have been apropos. No, we had to sing And They’ll Know We are Christians by our Love.

youtube.com/watch?v=bPT0tyZ-NKI

What can I say? It all started back in 1969.

I couldn’t even find a youtoube for Sons of God…

The Holy Spirit has guided us through some 2,000 years of Catholic music and delivered us to Life Teen. My soul is severely troubled.
 
Totally agree as I can’t stand teen Masses, but I still think some of their more folksy tunes would indeed meet liturgical status. By vast majority, in this case, I’m referring to what must be over 95% of parishes.
Congrats, on where you live then because here, I would chalenge you to find one. Last sunday, they had a drumset, behind sound glass and a blaring electric guitar, people were dancing and high fiving across the isles, hand signal dances to songs that looked like a holy roller church. Lots of david crowder band and switchfoot.
To be clear, I am up on contemporary rock, I love it and some of it even has a place at say…group adoration. But in mass…
Also in full disclosure, I am a core member in our lifeteen program and always attend that mass. I am well aware of liturgical norms for music and even for mass that are trampled.
95 percent compliance… I doubt you would find that stat in any country for ANY issue.
 
Cat, you and I have crossed over this before. Forty years ago my classmates at a Catholic boy’s high school tried to “push the envelope” to see just how far they could get after Vatican II. I do not question the Holy Spirit but if you can please tell me how the Holy Spirit led them to include playing Sounds of Silence and Bridge over Troubled Waters at my high school graduation Mass in May of 1969, I will forever be in your debt.

The actual, raw fact, is that Frank and Gary et al pushed their agenda against the tradiditional choir for whatever reasons. I rather doubt that the Holy Spirit was moving them in any way shape or form. If you knew Frank and Gary et al, they were as cynical as they came in 1969 and are as cynical as they come today. I’m looking forward to my class’s 40th anniversary in May to discuss this with my old friends. They are my friends and I have kept in touch with them over the years. The Holy Spirit moves as He will but caveat emptor.

I’d like to think the Holy Spirit had something to do with me singing in the cathedral choir since '83 and singing the chants I learned as a kid, the polyphony I picked up in glee club in high school and all of the wondrous sacred motets I’ve learned in Latin and from the English church since then. We traditional folks don’t get too much “playing time” - the Holy Spirit only seems to move at life teen masses.

I do not mean this to sound harsh, Cat but the Holy Spirit is free to move where He wants. LIfe teen is not the be all and end all of the Holy Spirit. He sings to me in the chant of my ancestors. His chants tell me of the sacrifice of my Irish ancestors. He sings to me in the obviously catholic polyphony of the English Renaissance knowing full well that the composers were subject to death. Yes, Cat, we sing English Renaissance motets written by hidden Catholic composers.

I LIKE the music of my ancestors. Frank and Gary started this stuff. Gary’s mom was school secretary. They got away with singing Simon and Garfunkle in 1969 and now everything goes.

I must respectfully disagree with you Cat. The Holy Spirit may have moved in Taize, but He was most assuredly not there in May of 1969 when we sang Simon and Garfunkle at my high school graduation. I wouldn’t be here 40 years later complaining.
Back in my later days of catholic junior high graduation, I cannot recall what we played there, but we didn’t have any Masses made to please teens, but the school ones often went along the way you suggested with Simon and Garfunkel type stuff anyway. My last year there was in '74. I know we sang kumbaya :banghead: at those Masses at times, and as much as we sang Eres Tu in our music and spanish classes, I have to think it ended up in Mass too. Oh, that song still makes me sick. The bad thing about all of the songs we mentioned, only kumbaya even mentions that Lord. Bridge Over Troubled Water could be interpeted as meaning about the Lord, but it just doesn’t do that. That’s one thing I used to do a lot of in my youth, was take songs I heard on the radio and transform them in my mind into about the Lord, that is, if they were ambiguous enough to not sound very strongly as though they were talking about a human love interest. Unfortunately even Bridge didn’t stay ambiguous too long, as I recall a line about some “sail on silver girl”. I definitely did that to Bridge Over Troubled Water, but I sure wouldn’t want to hear it in Mass.
 
I won’t sit back and ignore this.

Several of our Life Teen mass musicians have discerned vocations.

Take it back, Matt33.

And the rest of you–please use your charitable voices when you talk about the teenagers and their sponsors in my parish. How dare you judge all Life Teen Masses by the bad ones that you have seen? That’s no better than claiming that all priests are perverts because a few are.
Cat, Everyone should discern a vocation… One cant help but wonder, Did these “several” participate in the music selection? Also one cant help but wonder if the 'several" would have been “many” without lifeteen. In this day and age, one probably shouldn’t point to a number of vocations to back up thier point… What was the rate of young vocations before lifteen? I’m just sayin…
 
One thing I must also say here. I hate lifeteen I think it is a bad idea whos time has past. BUT! I participate in it. Why? Because I care about our youth, I love our Church, I feel for the teens of our time. So instead of just sitting there with a sour puss look on my face. I am activley trying to be a Holy force in thier lives… It is just sad that I have to work within such mediocre parameters. Our youth deserve better than old foggies trying to be “hip and with it” and talk down to them. Using what we (mistakenly) believe to be thier music and thier terms. They need true Catholisism. If that is going on in your parishes great… But I have been to stubbinville, Youth confrences, and youth days and I am telling you it is not the norm. AND THESE KIDS ARE STARVING!

Honestly a bad drum set and bad music in thier eyes is eaten up by the eminem’s of the other 6 days a week. Do you all have any idea how many I pods I have confiscated at life nights? What they need is love, caring and for petes sake a little reverent quietness in an incredibly noisy life…
 
Congrats, on where you live then because here, I would chalenge you to find one. Last sunday, they had a drumset, behind sound glass and a blaring electric guitar, people were dancing and high fiving across the isles, hand signal dances to songs that looked like a holy roller church. Lots of david crowder band and switchfoot.
To be clear, I am up on contemporary rock, I love it and some of it even has a place at say…group adoration. But in mass…
Also in full disclosure, I am a core member in our lifeteen program and always attend that mass. I am well aware of liturgical norms for music and even for mass that are trampled.
95 percent compliance… I doubt you would find that stat in any country for ANY issue.
I think you got a bit mixed up here. Recall how the vast majority of parishes comment, which you now know to be 95%, was in reference to parishes not having choirs. So it’s kind of hard to argue for choirs instead of Life Teen, when there aren’t many choirs to go around in the first place. You certainly wouldn’t see them in a Life Teen Mass anyway, as they have their own band for a start. Yes, that’s band, not choir.
 
I think you got a bit mixed up here. Recall how the vast majority of parishes comment, which you now know to be 95%, was in reference to parishes not having choirs. So it’s kind of hard to argue for choirs instead of Life Teen, when there aren’t many choirs to go around in the first place. You certainly wouldn’t see them in a Life Teen Mass anyway, as they have their own band for a start. Yes, that’s band, not choir.
I was confused, the whole band choior thing… I would agree with the 95 percent… Sorry:o
 
A nice To Jesus Christ, our Sovereign KIng would have been apropos. No, we had to sing And They’ll Know We are Christians by our Love.

youtube.com/watch?v=bPT0tyZ-NKI

What can I say? It all started back in 1969.

I couldn’t even find a youtoube for Sons of God…

The Holy Spirit has guided us through some 2,000 years of Catholic music and delivered us to Life Teen. My soul is severely troubled.
Oh man, stop bringing those awful memories back :D. I used to think that junk was liturgical, such as And They’ll Know We are Christians by our Love that you mentioned. I just knew that was just too complimentary towards oursleves, almost more of a self-worship, that told me it didnt’ belong, but what did I know? I’m not sure they ever sang that song on the sunday Masses, btu they surely did for the Masses of the schoolkids. I have contemplated, during my time of unemployment, of going to the 8am Masses daily Masses since they don’t have daily evening Masses anymore, and now I’m glad I didn’t, as they may be singing that swill too. UGH!!!
 
Cat, Everyone should discern a vocation… One cant help but wonder, Did these “several” participate in the music selection? Also one cant help but wonder if the 'several" would have been “many” without lifeteen. In this day and age, one probably shouldn’t point to a number of vocations to back up thier point… What was the rate of young vocations before lifteen? I’m just sayin…
I hate to tell you Matt, bit I’m willing to bet that this breakdown in treating the Mass seriously, for kids, was a primary element in my turning away from the Church as long as I did. I couldn’t probably had told you back then what made me sick about it, but it did. I suppose a lot of kids turn away, because they think it bores them, and that’s certainly a factor, but I’m not sure I ever thought the Mass was boring until they started making it more like entertainment, and I’m speaking as a guy who actually can’t stand Latin Mass for example, as I see no purpose in hearing something I don’t understand, though I do wish we still kneeled when we received the Precious Body as we used to.

I guess I finally decided that staying on God’s track was more important than getting away from cutesy tunes. At my local Youth Mass, for when I had to go for 3 of the last 4 years, I was gnawing my teeth through a good deal of it.
 
Cat, you and I have crossed over this before. Forty years ago my classmates at a Catholic boy’s high school tried to “push the envelope” to see just how far they could get after Vatican II. I do not question the Holy Spirit but if you can please tell me how the Holy Spirit led them to include playing Sounds of Silence and Bridge over Troubled Waters at my high school graduation Mass in May of 1969, I will forever be in your debt.

The actual, raw fact, is that Frank and Gary et al pushed their agenda against the tradiditional choir for whatever reasons. I rather doubt that the Holy Spirit was moving them in any way shape or form. If you knew Frank and Gary et al, they were as cynical as they came in 1969 and are as cynical as they come today. I’m looking forward to my class’s 40th anniversary in May to discuss this with my old friends. They are my friends and I have kept in touch with them over the years. The Holy Spirit moves as He will but caveat emptor.

I’d like to think the Holy Spirit had something to do with me singing in the cathedral choir since '83 and singing the chants I learned as a kid, the polyphony I picked up in glee club in high school and all of the wondrous sacred motets I’ve learned in Latin and from the English church since then. We traditional folks don’t get too much “playing time” - the Holy Spirit only seems to move at life teen masses.

I do not mean this to sound harsh, Cat but the Holy Spirit is free to move where He wants. LIfe teen is not the be all and end all of the Holy Spirit. He sings to me in the chant of my ancestors. His chants tell me of the sacrifice of my Irish ancestors. He sings to me in the obviously catholic polyphony of the English Renaissance knowing full well that the composers were subject to death. Yes, Cat, we sing English Renaissance motets written by hidden Catholic composers.

I LIKE the music of my ancestors. Frank and Gary started this stuff. Gary’s mom was school secretary. They got away with singing Simon and Garfunkle in 1969 and now everything goes.

I must respectfully disagree with you Cat. The Holy Spirit may have moved in Taize, but He was most assuredly not there in May of 1969 when we sang Simon and Garfunkle at my high school graduation. I wouldn’t be here 40 years later complaining.
brotherholf, we’re not talking Simon and Garfunkel at our Life Teen Mass. Why are you assuming that I think that’s OK for Mass? Of course it isn’t. I agree with you.
 
Cat, Everyone should discern a vocation… One cant help but wonder, Did these “several” participate in the music selection? Also one cant help but wonder if the 'several" would have been “many” without lifeteen. In this day and age, one probably shouldn’t point to a number of vocations to back up thier point… What was the rate of young vocations before lifteen? I’m just sayin…
You’re making a lot of assumptions.

You might not want to hear this, but I don’t think many more people would fit in our very large nave during our Life Teen Mass. It’s completely packed, with standing room only, and many in the congregation are teenagers, several hundred of them. This is one of the largest youth groups in the city, even bigger than some of the evangelical Protestant youth groups. And it’s very active in the parish and in the community. This youth group actually attracts Protestant teenagers.

I don’t know if the teenagers help select the music or not. I’m pretty certain they they do, because of the way the Life Teen program is set up in our parish–there are three “levels” of involvment, and one of the levels is “Youth Leaders.” They perform the music themselves; it’s not done by professionals or by adults, with the exception of the youth minister (who is a young man in his 30s, and he’s married, BTW.). He sings lead. But all the other musicians are the teenagers.

I do know several of the teens personally, and yes, they like the music at Life Teen. They really really like it. They aren’t just pretending to like it. They aren’t just going along with their peers to fit in. They aren’t rebelling against their parents or against the Church. They are not pining for “traditional” music. If they did, they would be at one of the OTHER eight Masses at our parish, where traditional music is the norm, and some of the teenagers ARE involved in these Masses, either as members of the congregation or as cantors and instrumentalists. (I know the teenagers because I have played piano for them in various musical venues in the city.) They have a choice at our parish and in our city.

In our city we have a TLM every Sunday (actually 2 TLMs on Sunday), and a daily TLM within a few miles of our parish. The choir (Latin, chant, etc.) is open to everyone who is interested, including teenagers. This Mass and the choir are NOT packed with teenagers. In fact, the TLM and choir aren’t packed with grownups, either.

So in our city anyway, when given the CHOICE, the teenagers (and many grownups) choose the Life Teen Mass.

Our city has a population of around 150,000, and we are very close to Chicago, and have a very large Catholic population. In fact, I would say that Catholicism is probably the number one religion in our city in terms of numbers, followed by evangelical Protestantism. (Around 10,000 people a week attend the non-denominational megachurch in our city.) The mainlines are a distant third in terms of numbers.

Life Teen has been around in our city for at least 15 years, and it shows no signs of losing popularity. Quite the contrary.

TLM has been around in our city since the mid-1980s (and of course, before Vatican II). Still waiting for the crowds to show up.

And our diocese has a surplus of vocations and apparently has HAD a surplus for many years. There has not been a decrease in vocations since Life Teen Masses started, if that’s what you’re thinking. I’m not saying that Life Teen is the reason that there are young men who are entering the priesthood or young women are entering religious life. I have read some of the testimonies in our diocescan newspaper, and several of the young people do give the credit to Life Teen for keeping them interested in their faith and getting them involved with their parish. But others come out of more traditional parishes and never attend Life Teen Masses. I think it’s the Holy Spirit who calls young people into vocations, not music and not Life Teen Mass and not TLM.

I’m sorry that your experience with Life Teen Mass and the Life Teen program has been so negative. But you cannot assume from your experiences that ALL Life Teen Masses and programs are bad.
 
One thing I must also say here. I hate lifeteen I think it is a bad idea whos time has past. BUT! I participate in it. Why? Because I care about our youth, I love our Church, I feel for the teens of our time. So instead of just sitting there with a sour puss look on my face. I am activley trying to be a Holy force in thier lives… It is just sad that I have to work within such mediocre parameters. Our youth deserve better than old foggies trying to be “hip and with it” and talk down to them. Using what we (mistakenly) believe to be thier music and thier terms. They need true Catholisism. If that is going on in your parishes great… But I have been to stubbinville, Youth confrences, and youth days and I am telling you it is not the norm. AND THESE KIDS ARE STARVING!

Honestly a bad drum set and bad music in thier eyes is eaten up by the eminem’s of the other 6 days a week. Do you all have any idea how many I pods I have confiscated at life nights? What they need is love, caring and for petes sake a little reverent quietness in an incredibly noisy life…
More wrong assumptions.

I see kids from our Life Teen program at Adoration all the time. (We have a 24/7 Adoration Chapel.) In fact, I see as many teenagers as I see grownups. They get plenty of opportunity for reverent quietness, and they use that opportunity to adore Our Lord.

The youth minister at our parish does NOT try to be hip and with it and talk down to the teenagers. He and his wife are gifted by the Holy Spirit in working with youth. Their weekly column in our parish bulletin is filled with spiritual “meat.” They are well-organized and have an army of sponsors who help them with the youth ministry. And they LOVE and CARE for their youth group and sacrifice to spend a lot of personal time with the teens.

And our teenagers are not starving. Are you sure that your teenagers are starving? How do you know this? Are you sure you’re not just making more assumptions based on your own personal preferences for music and atmosphere?

And why do you say that the Life Teen music isn’t “their” music? Are you sure it doesn’t appeal to the kids? It certainly appeals to the kids in our parish. Are you SURE that you know your teenagers as well as you think you know them? Obviously Life Teen rock is hardly eminem. Definitely not. It’s actually quite ancient music (some songs are at least 40 years old). But as church music goes, it belongs to the youth, not the grownups.

Frankly, I think that if you hate Life Teen and Steubenville and youth music and culture and language so much, perhaps you are in the wrong ministry. I really don’t understand how someone who doesn’t appreciate and accept youth where they are right now can be a good youth worker. It’s like–why would you play in a symphony orchestra if you hate classical music (money? salary?!).

OTOH, I do think that if you are “real” and honest with the kids and don’t try to pretend to like their music and their culture and language, they will appreciate your time and effort and learn from you and love you. Perhaps that’s your strength with youth work–being honest with teenagers and letting them know that there are other alternatives in music, language, culture, and of course, parish life. Perhaps you provide a welcome balance in your parish.

But you just have to stop making assumptions based on your own experiences. Perhaps because of your location, your experiences with youth are vastly different than mine. In our city, we have some of the most storied Protestant youth ministers and programs in the world. Some of our Protestant youth ministers are in demand all over the world as speakers and workshop leaders. One of the youth groups in our city attracts over a thousand kids on Wednesday nights. And the megachurch draws in thousands of teenagers to a very professional “rock” worship service every Sunday. And we have an ampitheater in our city at one of the evangelical churches that books musicians like Michael W. Smith, etc…

So perhaps the reason our Catholic parish youth group is so strong is that it HAS to be strong to keep kids true to the Church and to the Lord. If our Life Teen program offered watered-down Catholicism and wimpy music and fluffy teaching, the kids would see right through it, say bye, and head down the road to one of the big Protestant youth groups (or ditch church altogether).
 
Whoa ther nelley… I wasnt even talking about your parish I specificlly said mine, and no I wont take it back because you have no idea what my parish is like, it is awful. But it isnt just my parish come on up to Boise or Seattle sometime, I can show you some downright embarassing things. Also I didn’t call the music doggie doo, I used an analogy, and that is different. Perhaps you are very emotional about this but your reaction is off. Now please you take it back.
OK, I will take it back because I’ve read your original post and yes, it appears that you were speaking of your own parish.

But I would say that’s even worse. You claim to be someone who cares for the youth in your church and that you participate and try to help out.

But you call their music “dog doo.”

Have you told them this to their faces? If not, you should, rather than speaking ill of them behind their backs.

When you DO tell them to their faces that the Life Teen music is “dog doo,” how will it help strengthen their faith and reinforce their commitment to the Church? Do you have a better alternative for the Life Teen music? Are you ready to implement that alternative (have trained musicians lined up who will select music and train the teens to sing it, have the copies of the music available, have the appropriate instruments ready and the musicians who can play them and the MONEY to pay them, etc.)?

Based on your experience with youth groups, do you truly believe that the “non-dog-doo” music of your preference would fill the Mass with teenagers and attract back teenagers who have fallen away from the Church? I’ve read the posts of some musicians on CAF who claim that this is exactly what happened; when they started up the schola or the classical choir or the chant training, the youth flocked in and the youth group actually grew. Good for them!-that’s wonderful! Do you think this would happen at your parish with the “right kind of Catholic music?” If so, then why aren’t you taking some action instead of just insulting and name-calling the work of others who are doing the best they can?

It’s easy to talk. It’s a lot harder to go down in the trenches and do the fighting. Maybe it’s trench-time in your parish.
 
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