Why are people so obsessed with rebels?

[BornInMarch]

People seem to have a soft spot for rebellious figures. Pancho Villa, Che Guevera, and Boudicca are just three examples of people who are viewed in positive light for “fighting the power”.

This is bad, because all three of those people were bloodthirsty.

Che Guevera slaughtered thousands of political prisoners by preforming summery executions. Like a leach, he took advantage of economic problems and incited violent and bloody rebellions in Latin America and in the Congo.

Pancho Villa once ordered his soldiers to hold up a train which was carrying U. S. civilians and supplies; his men slaughtered a hundred steel workers. And then he attacked a civilian town. Later on, when his rebellion was failing, he sold out and surrendered to the person he was rebelling against in exchange for money and land.

Boudicca massacred Canmulodunum (a Roman civilian town which also doubled as a veterans home) and Londunim (another Roman civilian town). If at happened today, she would be classified as a mass-murderer and would be made to stand before a warcrime tribunal.

Why do people like rebels? Why are they willing to let rebels get away with atrocities which would in any other situation be decried?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

George Washington and every man who signed the Declaration of Independence were “Rebels”

They should rightly be honored and revered.

 

[Estevao]

I really don’t know why people idolize brutal figures like Che or Nelson Mandela. I think it’s not just chicks that dig jerks.

 

[QuestLove]

I really don’t know why people idolize brutal figures like Che or Nelson Mandela. I think it’s not just chicks that dig jerks.

Really, Nelson Mandela a brutal figure? Care to elaborate. There must be some revisionist history I am missing.

 

[Estevao]

Really, Nelson Mandela a brutal figure? Care to elaborate. There must be some revisionist history I am missing.

thebackbencher.co.uk/3-things-you-didnt-want-to-know-about-nelson-mandela/

 

[QuestLove]

thebackbencher.co.uk/3-things-you-didnt-want-to-know-about-nelson-mandela/

Oh so I was correct. There was some revisionist history I was missing. It still amazes me to this day how the victims of apartheid have become the ones vilified and have lies manufactured about them. He has even been given supernatural abilities being able to plant bombs when he was sent to prison in 1964 and released in 1991 (Oh yea, 18 of those years were in isolation in Robben Island) Oh but that Mandiba, he was a sneaky one. You know what he did when he got out, he had the nerve to support a truth and reconciliation commission asking people to confess all the bad they had done and forgive those who had hurt them. Oh that sly Mandiba.

The thing is, the truth about Mandela is known except in the fringe elements. You know how I know this because I was alive. There is a reason why all over the world people view him as a man of peace. Thank God the restraint, love and forgiveness that he and Father Tutu have shown is recognized all over the world.
May his soul RIP.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Here’s a counter-question, why are the religious so obsessed with authoritarians? Didn’t Michael Voris advocate the ‘benevolent dictatorship’ of a Catholic monarchy? Surely Spain wasn’t the only colonizer who used religion to expand her glorious empire.

 

[Estevao]

Oh so I was correct. There was some revisionist history I was missing. It still amazes me to this day how the victims of apartheid have become the ones vilified and have lies manufactured about them. He has even been given supernatural abilities being able to plant bombs when he was sent to prison in 1964 and released in 1991 (Oh yea, 18 of those years were in isolation in Robben Island) Oh but that Mandiba, he was a sneaky one. You know what he did when he got out, he had the nerve to support a truth and reconciliation commission asking people to confess all the bad they had done and forgive those who had hurt them. Oh that sly Mandiba.

The thing is, the truth about Mandela is known except in the fringe elements. You know how I know this because I was alive. There is a reason why all over the world people view him as a man of peace. Thank God the restraint, love and forgiveness that he and Father Tutu have shown is recognized all over the world.
May his soul RIP.

MK, Mandela’s terrorist organization, was the one who planted these bombs. He approved of them. Of course one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

What makes me a little puzzled as you seem to be is how South Africa, once the center of world attention, is now little talked about despite what the Boer farmers have endured since 1994.

And apparently it was Nelson Mandela day a few days ago. I thought about celebrating by necklacing some folk or blowing up some cafés, but I realized that these are evil actions.

 

[CatholicMale123]

Wot

 

[laircy]

Here’s a counter-question, why are the religious so obsessed with authoritarians? Didn’t Michael Voris advocate the ‘benevolent dictatorship’ of a Catholic monarchy? Surely Spain wasn’t the only colonizer who used religion to expand her glorious empire.

For that matter, might as well overthrow the Kingdom of God and establish a democracy where everyone gets to decide for themselves what is good or evil… oh wait.

 

[QuestLove]

MK, Mandela’s terrorist organization, was the one who planted these bombs. He approved of them. Of course one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

What makes me a little puzzled as you seem to be is how South Africa, once the center of world attention, is now little talked about despite what the Boer farmers have endured since 1994.

And apparently it was Nelson Mandela day a few days ago. I thought about celebrating by necklacing some folk or blowing up some cafés, but I realized that these are evil actions.

Even though you are being glib, I do agree that one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. I am sure the fighters for america’s independence were thought of as terrorists too by the British. Can you even imagine trying to impose such an apartheid system in the US? Those minute-men would not be having any of it I’m sure.

You know what though imprisoning Mandela brought about one very important thing:
*It allowed Mandela to get rid of his anger towards the perpetrators of the apartheid system. *In fact neither he nor tutu supported attacks on the Boers. In fact that’s why SA did not descend into chaos like Mugabe’s Zimbabwe. Even to this day there are some in SA who feel Mandela was too weak and passive and he should have used the power of the government to seize the farms and return them. I am not one of those, because two wrongs don’t make a right.

We will never agree on this issue and that’s fine. Forgive me though for being so passionate on the issue. It hits really close to home.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

For that matter, might as well overthrow the Kingdom of God and establish a democracy where everyone gets to decide for themselves what is good or evil… oh wait.

So people deciding for themselves is a bad thing? Yeah. That’s the heart of Catholicism right there.

 

[BornInMarch]

Let me make something clear. I am not talking about when a revolutionary actually has good intentions AND follows basic human morality (for example, George Washington never summarily executed Royalist POWs).

I am talking about when rebels either have bad intentions, commit brutal atrocities, or both, and are still treated as heroes. How many people wearing those stupid Che shirts are aware that Che was less a romantic revolutionary and more a vicious murderer who shot political prisoners in the forehead? How many people are aware that Dick Turpin murdered two people in cold blood?
Remember that Pol Pot, a monster who’s killing fields exterminated a quarter of Cambodia’s population, was technically a rebel.

While it is true that some rebels can be good, they aren’t inherently heroic.

 

[Petaro]

Really, Nelson Mandela a brutal figure? Care to elaborate. There must be some revisionist history I am missing.

I think you are in for some hard education. It is us who revise history.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

While it is true that some rebels can be good, they aren’t inherently heroic.

Neither are authorities inherently saintly. Not a lot of kings counted among the saints (and you’re hearing this from someone who’s starting to consider that a good thing).

 

[BornInMarch]

Neither are authorities inherently saintly. Not a lot of kings counted among the saints (and you’re hearing this from someone who’s starting to consider that a good thing).

You seem to be missing the point. Society more often than not tends to paint rebels as heroes. There are millions of movies about the Generic Resistance trying to overthrow the Generic Empire, and every single one of these movies paint the resistance as heroic and the empire as evil.
Even if the Rebel Alliance is not shown as heroic, they are still ‘gritty hardcore’ protagonists in comparison to the generically evil empire.
I have never once seen a movie in which the hero is fighting for the loyalists, or where loyalists are shown to be less than evil.

This type of thinking becomes a problem if it leaks into real life, as anyone who commit mass murder are deserving only of scorn. Summery executions are not acceptable. Slaughtering civilian populations is not acceptable. And yet people who commit brutal atrocities are still praised just because they happen to also be “fighting the power”. Che being a rebel is the only reason he is so popular.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You seem to be missing the point. Society more often than not tends to paint rebels as heroes. There are millions of movies about the Generic Resistance trying to overthrow the Generic Empire, and every single one of these movies paint the resistance as heroic and the empire as evil.
Even if the Rebel Alliance is not shown as heroic, they are still ‘gritty hardcore’ protagonists in comparison to the generically evil empire.
I have never once seen a movie in which the hero is fighting for the loyalists, or where loyalists are shown to be less than evil.

I’m sorry are you equating Che to the likes of Luke Skywalker? You do realize that if it’s pro-authority fiction you’re after, you need look no further than Nazi Germany. The world already had it’s leader worship phase. Alexander the Great. Genghis Khan. Napoleon. Julius Caesar. You want to go back to that period? Be my guest.

However, if you want to know why people can’t stand that anymore, know that we’re in age where are people have grown sick of that kind of worship. Religion is mired because it’s an accomplice to the same crime. There are legitimate reasons for it all too (in both cases). Heck the early Christians themselves were rebels.

Though like I said, you want an example of pro-empire material, I’m sure there’s plenty of historical propaganda to satisfy you.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I’m sorry are you equating Che to the likes of Luke Skywalker? You do realize that if it’s pro-authority fiction you’re after, you need look no further than Nazi Germany. The world already had it’s leader worship phase. Alexander the Great. Genghis Khan. Napoleon. Julius Caesar. You want to go back to that period? Be my guest.

However, if you want to know why people can’t stand that anymore, know that we’re in age where are people have grown sick of that kind of worship. Religion is mired because it’s an accomplice to the same crime. There are legitimate reasons for it all too (in both cases). Heck the early Christians themselves were rebels.

Though like I said, you want an example of pro-empire material, I’m sure there’s plenty of historical propaganda to satisfy you.

I think you are still missing the OP’s point. There is no reason to assume that rebels are inherently good guys fighting evil power, yet many glorify rebels without assessing their cause and actions.

But you have made this into a good colonial empire vs evil local rebels thing, while it is not meant like that. I suspect there is a little chip on your shoulder, so maybe you take this topic personally

 

[BornInMarch]

I’m sorry are you equating Che to the likes of Luke Skywalker? You do realize that if it’s pro-authority fiction you’re after, you need look no further than Nazi Germany. The world already had it’s leader worship phase. Alexander the Great. Genghis Khan. Napoleon. Julius Caesar. You want to go back to that period? Be my guest.

However, if you want to know why people can’t stand that anymore, know that we’re in age where are people have grown sick of that kind of worship. Religion is mired because it’s an accomplice to the same crime. There are legitimate reasons for it all too (in both cases). Heck the early Christians themselves were rebels.

Though like I said, you want an example of pro-empire material, I’m sure there’s plenty of historical propaganda to satisfy you.

Please stop twisting my words. All I was saying is that Luke Skywalker would not have as much fan support if his faction was leading a civil war as apposed to a rebellion. Most rebellions are named after political goals (independence, democracy, etc), but they just call themselves Rebel Alliance. I’m not saying they are bad, I’m just saying that it is clear everyone goes into movies these days thinking rebel=good, more powerful side=evil.

But now that you mentioned the subject, his blowing up the Death Star did result in millions of people (most of whom lacking a choice in their side) dying very painful deaths (I know the Empire blew up a planet in the movie, but 2 wrongs don’t make a right).

I’m not saying that all loyalists are good, I am just saying that sometimes they are. For example, during the English Civil war the rebels who supported Cromwell proved to me much more brutal and genocidal than Charles I ever was (the Monarchy Restoration wasn’t because Charles II invades: he was invited back after Cromwell died).
Likewise, Robespierre is another example of how rebels can sometimes become unimaginably horrific.

I don’t like how you’re referring to religion itself as tyrannical.

If anything, the Catholic Church has multiple safeguards in place to be sure that power only goes to those who don’t seek it (both Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul said that being chosen as pope was more a cross to bear than a privilege to enjoy [and less you think being Pope is not hard, remember that John Paul was shot]).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Please stop twisting my words. All I was saying is that Luke Skywalker would not have as much fan support if his faction was leading a civil war as apposed to a rebellion. Most rebellions are named after political goals (independence, democracy, etc), but they just call themselves Rebel Alliance. I’m not saying they are bad, I’m just saying that it is clear everyone goes into movies these days thinking rebel=good, more powerful side=evil.

Because we’ve already had the reverse, in case you missed what I said. Authority was long worshiped since Ancient Greece. Emperor’s, pharaohs, and kings mandated glorification in their own art and media. This carried all the way to Hitler’s Germany. And ironically, it goes further with Stalin’s Russia, Mao’s China, and even North Korea today.

Simply put, everyone goes to the movies with the thinking you’ve described because we’ve previously subscribed to the complete opposite for centuries. As for my comment towards religion, it’s merely observation. Religion was used to subjugate my country and if you knew anything about it, you’d see why we raise our own anti-clerical revolutionaries despite our status as the only Catholic nation in Asia.

But you have made this into a good colonial empire vs evil local rebels thing, while it is not meant like that. I suspect there is a little chip on your shoulder, so maybe you take this topic personally

Being Filipino, suffering under the boot of three colonizers is almost a legacy in our history books. Like many, I was raised with that knowledge so sue me if I see the idea of rebellion as something that’s almost a virtue.