Why are people so tolerant of gays now?

[Laughing_Crow]

“Healthy people in healthy cultures have a natural revulsion to the thought of same-sex sexual acts, but that natural revulsion has been eroded by the fact that, for decades, our culture has made contracepted sex the norm.”

From a National Catholic Register article.

Im reminded of the saying ‘A civilization that finds itself without major issues will soon turn the smallest of problems into something big’ or something to that effect. My generation, the “ME” generation has grown up with no real troubles. No full deployment wars, no depression or economic collapse. We live in a world where you can get what you want at the click of a button. If we want validation all we need to do is enter a website and go there and find support for whatever we want be it being a homosexual, a transgender or whatever. The lack of any real problems means we eagerly get behind any movement to feel some sense of accomplishment, ignoring any repercussions that may come into being. Also social media hasnt helped as if you say something negative people then can link what you said to others who then link to others. Next thing you know your a bad guy, receiving hate mail for standing up against gay marriage.

Media hasnt helped by making gay people sympathetic in tv shows like Glee or Modern Family. Dont support gay marriage? Congratulations your now one of those d**khead jocks from glee. I have a gay friend who actually hates Modern Family as he finds the portrayal of the gay couple offensive and is against gay marriage. You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff people have said to him because of it including someone saying he should kill himself as he was a stain on the gay ‘nation’. This from someone who isnt even gay, just someone who supports gays. That said social media isnt all bad, t allows one to raise your voice against things in large groups. One of my favorite joke/sayings is from an image board where people joked being gay would become the new normal and gave birth to the “I bet you kiss girls f****t” saying

We have become eager to trumpet any cause that seems even slightly righteous. And by righteous I mean “oh someone is oppressed, LETS HELP THEM!”. It’s happening again by the way, transgender rights are now the new flag to raise and get behind. It would be nice if we had something legitimate to get behind again like a new space race to land the first man on Mars or to find new species beneath the sea but I wont hold my breath.

 

[Eleanor61]

Im reminded of the saying ‘A civilization that finds itself without major issues will soon turn the smallest of problems into something big’ or something to that effect. My generation, the “ME” generation has grown up with no real troubles. No full deployment wars, no depression or economic collapse. We live in a world where you can get what you want at the click of a button. If we want validation all we need to do is enter a website and go there and find support for whatever we want be it being a homosexual, a transgender or whatever. The lack of any real problems means we eagerly get behind any movement to feel some sense of accomplishment, ignoring any repercussions that may come into being. Also social media hasnt helped as if you say something negative people then can link what you said to others who then link to others. Next thing you know your a bad guy, receiving hate mail for standing up against gay marriage.

Media hasnt helped by making gay people sympathetic in tv shows like Glee or Modern Family. Dont support gay marriage? Congratulations your now one of those d**khead jocks from glee. I have a gay friend who actually hates Modern Family as he finds the portrayal of the gay couple offensive and is against gay marriage. You wouldn’t believe some of the stuff people have said to him because of it including someone saying he should kill himself as he was a stain on the gay ‘nation’. This from someone who isnt even gay, just someone who supports gays. That said social media isnt all bad, t allows one to raise your voice against things in large groups. One of my favorite joke/sayings is from an image board where people joked being gay would become the new normal and gave birth to the “I bet you kiss girls f****t” saying

We have become eager to trumpet any cause that seems even slightly righteous. And by righteous I mean “oh someone is oppressed, LETS HELP THEM!”. It’s happening again by the way, transgender rights are now the new flag to raise and get behind. It would be nice if we had something legitimate to get behind again like a new space race to land the first man on Mars or to find new species beneath the sea but I wont hold my breath.

I would agree with most of this except that for many people young people 30 and under, including those with college and graduate degrees, there is a depression. Record numbers of young adults are forced to live with their parents because of being un or under employed. For some reason the media ignores this very real social problem in favor of trivial issues.

 

[jmcrae]

I would agree with most of this except that for many people young people 30 and under, including those with college and graduate degrees, there is a depression. Record numbers of young adults are forced to live with their parents because of being un or under employed. For some reason the media ignores this very real social problem in favor of trivial issues.

This has been going on for decades, but young people feel stuck and alone, because no one is acknowledging the issue.

 

[EasterJoy]

There are a lot of good points in this thread, but how about the simple answer: Because people, including Christians, realize that sexuality is immutable, and that intolerance of LGBT people is hate?

I don’t think that the concern is tolerance in the sense of ending personal attacks or marginalization. The concern is the normalization of disordered behavior. It would be as if tolerance for alcoholics or drug users meant tolerance for the choice to get intoxicated for recreation. You know: “What is it to you if I go home and drink until I black out, if I come to work sober in the morning, and why isn’t that just the same as your addiction to watching re-runs of Star Trek?” Well, the fact that I may watch too much Star Trek for my family’s good or that I don’t actually witness you getting drunk or stoned does not mean that I’m a hateful person if I tell you that drunkenness or recreational use of intoxicants to the point of impairment is objectively wrong. Of course we don’t think you should have trouble finding housing or a job because you’re willing to say, “My name is Bill, and I’m an alcoholic”!

That’s the concern, that is, that habitual immoral behavior is being celebrated as not only moral, but as the *equivalent in terms of what society should encourage *of the behavior for which sex exists at all, not that legitimate persons are celebrated as persons equal in dignity or worth to anyone else.

 

[JimG]

I would agree with most of this except that for many people young people 30 and under, including those with college and graduate degrees, there is a depression. Record numbers of young adults are forced to live with their parents because of being un or under employed. For some reason the media ignores this very real social problem in favor of trivial issues.

I am inclined to agree with you. It seems to me that we are already in the midst of a major depression, but it is masked by the fact that there are no soup lines, just an explosion in the amount of food stamps and other benefits. There are kids in their 20’s and 30’s, some college graduates, who are living at home far longer than anyone would have expected, and in some cases depleting what might have been their inheritances. One major medical problem on the part of their parents would sink the family into desperation, and Medicare does not cover nursing home costs. The Fed floods the economy with new money which feeds the stock market but helps no one else. It is a strange situation. In the meantime, family structure continues to collapse (45% out of wedlock birth rate). Ultimately the whole thing may come crashing down.

 

[Eleanor61]

I don’t think that the concern is tolerance in the sense of ending personal attacks or marginalization. The concern is the normalization of disordered behavior. It would be as if tolerance for alcoholics or drug users meant tolerance for the choice to get intoxicated for recreation. You know: “What is it to you if I go home and drink until I black out, if I come to work sober in the morning, and why isn’t that just the same as your addiction to watching re-runs of Star Trek?” Well, the fact that I may watch too much Star Trek for my family’s good or that I don’t actually witness you getting drunk or stoned does not mean that I’m a hateful person if I tell you that drunkenness or recreational use of intoxicants to the point of impairment is objectively wrong. Of course we don’t think you should have trouble finding housing or a job because you’re willing to say, “My name is Bill, and I’m an alcoholic”!

That’s the concern, that is, that habitual immoral behavior is being celebrated as not only moral, but as the *equivalent in terms of what society should encourage *of the behavior for which sex exists at all, not that legitimate persons are celebrated as persons equal in dignity or worth to anyone else.

This entire thread really underscores the fact that most people have trouble distinguishing between common decency and respect for all persons and normalizing and celebrating disordered acts.

 

[CaliLobo]

"EasterJoy:

I don’t think that the concern is tolerance in the sense of ending personal attacks or marginalization. The concern is the normalization of disordered behavior…

This entire thread really underscores the fact that most people have trouble distinguishing between common decency and respect for all persons and normalizing and celebrating disordered acts.

Disordered to who? The Catholic Magisterium? But not everyone is Catholic. When we take religion out of the equation, we know it is scientific fact that homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism are normal, immutable characteristics. (The closure of Exodus International helps prove that.)

And even if you disagree with science, you can’t disagree that the world is changing and in turn, norms will change. That’s a fact of life.

Eleanor61:

I would agree with most of this except that for many people young people 30 and under, including those with college and graduate degrees, there is a depression. Record numbers of young adults are forced to live with their parents because of being un or under employed. For some reason the media ignores this very real social problem in favor of trivial issues.

I believe this is evidence that capitalism is starting to fail. Businesses are so efficient they can produce products more cheaply, with less workers, and without having to hire people my age and younger. Yet products continue to become more and more expensive, and the cost of sacred things like marriage and children becomes unaffordable. That’s when you know that capitalism is reaching its breaking point, and we need new economic structures.

 

[bben15]

No one ever said that homosexuals have to be persecuted. We should welcome them with open arms, while keeping to the laws of Christ.

God bless you.

 

[mikekle]

I believe the mainstream media is to blame for all the homosexual openness all over the country now, most Liberal media outlets are very Pro-gay, and will openly discuss it, which they are really not supposed to do, being a media outlet, their purpose is to report the news, thats it, we dont care what their personal beliefs are, just want to hear the news, not bias opinions of the days stories! LOL, but apparently they have all forgotten they are supposed to be non-biased about the stories they report…not sure how this changed though, but its pretty obvious to me, it is someone trying to further their agenda and gain more followers.

In my opinion, being gay is 100% WRONG, nothing right about it and Im sure these people will be judged for this when they die. I do not believe God intends for us to be nice or love these gay people though, in fact if you look at the old testament, it doesnt really mention gays, but there are many verses where God instructs people to literally kill others if they blaspheme the Lord. There is one verse, cant think of the actual number, it states that if just one person in a town is rebelling against God or blasphemes God, the ENTIRE town must be put to death, another verse states if a man cheats on his wife with another woman, BOTH of them should be put to death immediately!!! These are pretty strong, and Id imagine God feels the same (if not worse) about gays.

I still cannot understand why God has not destroyed any American cities, as he did with Sodom and Gomorrah, he destroyed this town for the sexual sins, but if you look at modern cities like San Francisco, sexual sin is really bad and rampant, so not sure why God is holding back from destroying cities like this? He didnt wait too long to destroy Sodom/Gomarrah.

Then again, attitudes change over time, so while being gay is for the most part accepted in the world today, that may change within another 20-30 yrs. You just never know how things will change down the road.

 

[mikekle]

No one ever said that homosexuals have to be persecuted. We should welcome them with open arms, while keeping to the laws of Christ.

God bless you.

I think to do this, would be an abomination to God, I doubt he would look kindly on this kind of activity. Look at what he did to Sodom/Gomarrah, maybe we will be judged for NOT persecuting gays in modern times?

 

[bben15]

I think to do this, would be an abomination to God, I doubt he would look kindly on this kind of activity. Look at what he did to Sodom/Gomarrah, maybe we will be judged for NOT persecuting gays in modern times?

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

 

[PTL]

Why are people so tolerant of gays now? Everybody becomes really hateful when you don’t support gay rights, it never used to be like this. What has happened to people, they’ve been brain washed.

Why and how did it just happen out of the blue and it feels like it happened from nowhere.

Has this tolerance for sin seeped into catholics too ?
Catholics who are also subject to social conformity are scared to speak out about the issue on moral grounds.

This permissiveness will all lead to moral degradation.

You are right. People are brain washed by this administration and by the liberals.
The crowds are blind. When a lie is told one thousand times it becomes the truth. That is what is happening in front of our eyes. Most people can not think independently, they agree with what others say. Majority rules, mob controls. The America I used to know no longer exists. How sad!

 

[EasterJoy]

Disordered to who? The Catholic Magisterium? But not everyone is Catholic. When we take religion out of the equation, we know it is scientific fact that homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism are normal, immutable characteristics. (The closure of Exodus International helps prove that.)

And even if you disagree with science, you can’t disagree that the world is changing and in turn, norms will change. That’s a fact of life.

I believe this is evidence that capitalism is starting to fail. Businesses are so efficient they can produce products more cheaply, with less workers, and without having to hire people my age and younger. Yet products continue to become more and more expensive, and the cost of sacred things like marriage and children becomes unaffordable. That’s when you know that capitalism is reaching its breaking point, and we need new economic structures.

Transgenderism is normal? Why do the psychiatrists call it gender dysphoria…a disorder? Ah, because if it is normal, then the insurance company does not have to pay to have it surgically treated, that is why!

That something has some known prevalence in nature does not make it normal. You might say that some certain percentage of people persistently have homosexual inclinations or engage in homosexual behavior, and that makes it normal. Well, that would make incest normal, wouldn’t it? Domestic violence, too, not to mention sexual promiscuity. That definition makes cancer normal, too. As for being immutable, there are a lot of disorders, both physical and psychological, for which there are no known cures. It would be convenient for the death statistics if incurable diseases could be considered deaths by “natural causes”, but it doesn’t work that way. The Church does say, however, that it is totally possible to be inclined to homosexual behaviors through no fault of your own. Some people are physically inclined that way, and did not ask for their inclination.

You could say that societal acceptance makes something normal, but is a circular argument, since societal acceptance is fluid (especially now!). Some Romans thought infanticide was normal; some Greeks thought that ephebophilia was normal. So that doesn’t work. At any rate, science cannot dictate social norms…those aren’t “discovered” by experiment or observation, like acceleration due to gravity or the typical length of gestation. Even in secular societies, society decides what is socially obligatory and what is taboo. In spite of what some irreligious people would like, Catholics have as much right to contribute to the discussion of what is and is not going to considered acceptable as anyone else. The separation of church and state does not imply that society may feel free to marginalize the religious.

More to the point, I think we can agree that sometimes when society decides what is acceptable, society can be wrong. You and I may disagree about where the objective boundaries of right and wrong are, but we both agree that these boundaries do exist. Natural law is a believable concept…even if one is not a theist.

PS You think capitalism is starting to fail? To be replaced by…what? I fail to see something else on the horizon. It is the replacements to capitalism that have all failed, only to have that ubiquitous weed, Capitalism, grow in their place. As a scientist, as nearly as I can see capitalism is about as likely to die out as the cockroaches and the rats. One may want to deny it a place in the world’s economic ecosystem, but I see no evidence at all that it is just going to up and die. I’m not even 100% sure that it could be artificially suppressed. The best I think can be hoped for is that it be ethically civilized. That is attainable, I think.

As for the cost of marriage, it is the cost of no-fault divorce that is really killing people and families, especially the poor.

 

[Kamaduck]

I think to do this, would be an abomination to God, I doubt he would look kindly on this kind of activity. Look at what he did to Sodom/Gomarrah, maybe we will be judged for NOT persecuting gays in modern times?

I don’t think God is going to punish us for “not persecuting” people. He might punish us for encouraging sin, but that’s completely different.

 

[Eliza10]

Why are people so tolerant of gays now?

Actually, the Church, in Her sacred and all-true teaching, has been always been tolerant of gays, and is only just now trying to redirect the focus of Catholics to where it should be, with the help of our Holy Father Pope Francis: to remember that gays are, first and foremost, Beloved of God.

Everybody becomes really hateful when you don’t support gay rights, it never used to be like this. What has happened to people, they’ve been brain washed.

Its true, and its a problem. Perhaps we can accept the unfair and unjust strife aimed at us in this current situation as penance on behalf of all the Christians before us who were unfair and unjust to gays of the past: by not showing them the love of Christ, which is and always has been their due from us.

Why and how did it just happen out of the blue and it feels like it happened from nowhere.

Not out of nowhere. The gay lobby has been huge and steady for a long time and they have strategized to be well-placed for social change - Hollywood, the media, politics, and church leadership - notably Catholic and Episcopal.

Hitlers famous and “useful” statement that if you tell a lie often enough people believe its the truth comes to play here. But I believe in the truth of the words of another man: “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.” That was Abe Lincoln.

I think as a result of the gay lobby’s concerted and intelligent efforts, what we have now is one of those “sometimes” when *all *of the people are fooled. But all of the people don’t believe lies all of the time. This won’t go on forever.

Has this tolerance for sin seeped into Catholics too ?

Well, yes, that’s why we need the New Evangelism. That why we all need to live lives of grace in the Sacraments.

Catholics who are also subject to social conformity are scared to speak out about the issue on moral grounds.

True. We need to live lives of grace so our fellow Catholics can be strengthened.

This permissiveness will all lead to moral degradation.

Yes, the work of the evil one is very powerful, but the work of God is much greater! Lets focus on this when we begin to get discouraged. That is what God wants us to do.
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[EasterJoy]

I think to do this, would be an abomination to God, I doubt he would look kindly on this kind of activity. Look at what he did to Sodom/Gomarrah, maybe we will be judged for NOT persecuting gays in modern times?

The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was not failure to persecute gays. The inhabitants were gang-raping strangers. Of all the sexual sins, there are none that are as morally repugnant as rape–none. If persecution of gays is condoned in the least, be sure that someone will sexually assault them, too. That is only one of a hundred reasons why a Christian can never remotely condone the persecution of gays. BTW, I don’t see any reason to believe that the rapists of Sodom themselves were necessarily gay. There is every reason to believe that the problem with Sodom and Gomorrah is that the cities had the morals of a high security prison with no guards. The last thing a man wants to be in a place like that is homosexual.

 

[edwest2]

Why are people so tolerant of gays now? Everybody becomes really hateful when you don’t support gay rights, it never used to be like this. What has happened to people, they’ve been brain washed.

Why and how did it just happen out of the blue and it feels like it happened from nowhere.

Has this tolerance for sin seeped into catholics too ?
Catholics who are also subject to social conformity are scared to speak out about the issue on moral grounds.

This permissiveness will all lead to moral degradation.

Only careful research can answer your questions. Try not to paint with a broad brush.

This is Propaganda 101. Classic Psychological Warfare. You do not win hearts and minds quickly. A multi-pronged approach over time is required.

1968 The Sex without love Revolution tells everyone (A) Ignore mom, dad, priests, nuns, LISTEN TO US. Have sex with anyone you want. (B) Smoke dope. (C) Don’t trust anyone over 30!

1973 Due to a non-scientific vote under pressure from radical gay activists and closeted gays in the American Psychiatric Association, Homosexuality is removed from their Diagnostic and Statical Manual. Years of research and studies are thrown out the window.

amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370

Porn bookstores, topless bars and strip clubs turn the West away from the Godly to the flesh. Some of that graphic porn was gay.

Sodomy laws are repealed

The media gradually becomes a little immoral, then a little more then a little more. So by the time you get to the 1990s and the internet - into the abyss.

Read up:

amazon.com/Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption-Disguised/dp/1581824599/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375494502&sr=1-1&keywords=marketing+of+evil+by+david+kupelian

Peace,
Ed

 

[jmcrae]

Disordered to who?

An entire world of people not yet born.

Who never will be born, if the gay agenda gets its way, and wipes out the entire human race in an orgy of sterile hedonism.

 

[Eliza10]

The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was not failure to persecute gays. The inhabitants were gang-raping strangers. Of all the sexual sins, there are none that are as morally repugnant as rape–none. …

That’s a helpful distinction. Thank you for making it.

 

[PTL]

The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is homosexuality in action. The gang rape intention just emphasized how evil their lusts were. The majority of the people were gay was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. In other words, homosexuality in action was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Our Holy Father Francis said the same thing. The attraction of same sex is not a sin but give into action is. There is no question about it.