Why are people still not bowing?

[SeekNFind]

I notice that too, people don’t bow and some barely want to genuflect or bow before the host in the communion line (and I realize that some people have arthritis or joint problems, etc).

 

[Cat]

The instruction is given on our pew cards, but the print is so incredibly tiny that I’m guessing many elderly people, or people with many children who are distracted and can’t really keep a grip on the pew cards, simply cannot SEE the teeny tiny little print that tells them to bow.

OR they see the instruction, but only AFTER it’s too late. This is kind of the way it is in our pew card, too–by the time you read the instruction to bow, you’re already saying the words, and all you can do is a quick bob forward, which doesn’t really look like a bow.

I agree with JillianRose–give people a break. Many people have known these liturgical responses since infanthood, even if they were Protestant. My husband and I were both Protestant in non-liturgical churches, but we still learned the Creeds and some of the various responses because we both occasionally attended mainline Protestant churchs (primarily due to music gigs). It’s really hard to break long-standing habits.

And the tiny print doesn’t help!

It also doesn’t help when the priests allow people to switch back and forth between singing various Mass settings (without announcing the page number where the music can be found in the hymnal) and reciting with no music. This is confusing. Far be it from me to criticize a priest of the Lord Jesus, but honestly–the way to help people learn something is to repeat and repeat and repeat endlessly, not pull the rug out and leave them falling. In our parish, the Gloria just isn’t there yet, and I and my husband get very frustrated that we and almost everyone else (except the children) are stumbling on it.

My personal feeling is that the priest should actually pause in the Mass before starting the Gloria and say slowly and clearly, “The Gloria may be found on the pew card (or give the page number in the hymnal) . If you have not yet memorized the new setting, please find it now. We are all working towards learning this new setting, and we appreciate your efforts.” And THEN go on and recite the Gloria.

The priest could do the same thing for the Creed each week, and remind the people of the place where they are supposed to bow.

Again, I apologize for my obvious frustration, but it is disconcerting to stumble along. I’m not a stupid person, but I do have a difficult time memorizing things, and I think many others are the same way.

 

[CatherineOH]

The palms-up thing makes me uncomfortable. Seems like an Evangelical Protestant thing.

you got a snork from me…
I’ve never been in any non denominational churches, but the Lutheran ones who do not like it and says it makes them uncomfortable complain that it is too Catholic.

 

[Student09]

T

I agree with JillianRose–give people a break. Many people have known these liturgical responses since infanthood, even if they were Protestant. My husband and I were both Protestant in non-liturgical churches, but we still learned the Creeds and some of the various responses because we both occasionally attended mainline Protestant churchs (primarily due to music gigs). It’s really hard to break long-standing habits.
.

I’m not trying to attack anyone, just trying to understand. Thank you for helping me to understand. Since I see people in my parish bow/genuflect/strike their chest at other times it does seem more like a habitual thing than a refusal to make acts of reverence.

 

[japhy]

I see your point, but my friends who are Catholic are all either knowledgeable and devout or lapsed, so I’d basically have to ask a stranger.

Oh dear, you go to a parish full of strangers? That must be remedied.

 

[japhy]

The palms-up thing makes me uncomfortable. Seems like an Evangelical Protestant thing.

Several centuries before “evangelical protestant” was a term, ancient Christians adopted the orans posture for prayer. It might not have been their posture for prayer during the Divine Liturgy, but it was used. Some of the oldest Christian artwork shows people – women, no less! – praying in the orans posture.

 

[ProVobis]

I feel your pain. I have the opposite problem. I can bow without a problem. I can’t genuflect. I try, but if I go lower than a short curtsy I’d end up on the floor in pain.

I’ve noticed many priests don’t fully genuflect in the EF when rubrics call for it. But the effort counts IMO.

As far as bowing goes, Catholics used to be scolded for not bowing at the name of Jesus. Nowadays you can’t tell if people are bowing or just looking down at the ground or their missals. It’s also tough to show a bow when you’re already reading a card. What are you supposed to do, look up and then look down at the card and then up again? Just saying.

 

[Student09]

It’s also tough to show a bow when you’re already reading a card. What are you supposed to do, look up and then look down at the card and then up again? Just saying.

The rubrics call for a profound bow which is from the waist.

 

[R_C]

The rubrics call for a profound bow which is from the waist.

Then of course there are exceptions if a person cannot take postures such as bowing and kneeling. After all we are trying to be respectful to the Lord and obedient to the Church, two things that do not require us to hurt ourselves so long as the intention is in our heart.

I believe sitting was the suggested behavior when one could not kneel, and bowing at least the head, if possible, may suffice, but I don’t recall the exact guidelines.

 

[ProVobis]

The rubrics call for a profound bow which is from the waist.

One can still “cheat” with that instruction. Just saying.

 

[ProVobis]

The rubrics call for a profound bow which is from the waist.

One can still cheat on that, especially since he or she has to hold that position for 15-20 seconds, which is what I timed it singing Credo III in Latin.

 

[Joe_5859]

I don’t think it’s willful disobedience or anything. People aren’t used to doing it. Even if they do see the print on the pew card (which they may or may not see…sometimes we gloss over the red print that we know we don’t actually say because we believe we already know what we’re doing), many people aren’t going to start doing it of their own volition when the priest hasn’t mentioned it and no one else around them is doing it. If they even give it any conscious thought at all, they may simply figure it applies somewhere else, but obviously not here because no one else is doing it.

 

[CatherineOH]

Very true, and my copy is a B&W without red highlights and only noticed it in May.

 

[mfrances]

I learned the proper gestures just on my own when I was studying the words for the start new mass translation last year. I’ve looked around and no one else bows.

Our priests have not given any instruction on this, nor made an announcement, nor put it in the church bulletin.

Our pew cards don’t say to bow during the Creed or strike the breast during the Confiteor. Everyone is using the pew cards to read off the “people’s parts”.

I think a lot of people just don’t know about it, just like a lot of people do not know they are supposed to bow before recieving Holy Communion.

 

[grasscutter]

My priest instructed us in this last December and still, very few people actually bow (actually, I can’t say that for a fact since I usually sit near the front - I only know the people near me don’t). I wonder if it’s just that they feel awkward and self-conscious. I know I do at times, so I would appreciate people around me joining in!

 

[YoungTradCath]

The action of bowing is less effective in this case than genuflecting.

 

[PrincepsAuguste]

My guess would be that it is mob pyschology/poor leadership. People like to make sure that whatever they are doing doesn’t rock the boat (especially in church), so even if they are given clear instruction they are very cautious. If enough people are like this everyone simply reaches the conclusion that they shouldn’t do it.

I feel the same way about kneeling during communion. I stop kneeling after the host has been deposited in the tabernacle, while just about everyone else stops when the priest sits down. I am fairly certain that I am right, considering that we are not kneeling to the priest but to the real presence of christ in the room. However, I often find myself kneeling until the priest takes his seat simply because that is what everyone else does.

 

[jmcrae]

I truly honestly thought that the reason people didn’t bow for that part of the creed (from “and by the Holy Spirit” to “became man”) was because they didn’t know they were supposed to. I thought, therefore, that when people had to read the creed off a card that said * in bright red lettering* “all bow for the following lines until ‘became man’”, they would start bowing.

So why am I still the ONLY person in the congregation who bows for those words?
(I could say the same about striking the chest at the mea culpa.)

I try not to pay attention to what other people do, which is why I am posting this now instead of last December. I just genuinely would like to understand. Do they think it’s demeaning to bow to God? Do they not believe in God? Are they afraid of standing out? Are they mad at the Church and purposefully disobeying? Are they unable to read red letters? Why?

I suspect that some may be confused about what “bowing” is - I have caught some people nodding their heads at that point, but you’re right - almost no one actually bows from the waist.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve noticed many priests don’t fully genuflect in the EF when rubrics call for it. But the effort counts IMO.

As far as bowing goes, Catholics used to be scolded for not bowing at the name of Jesus. Nowadays you can’t tell if people are bowing or just looking down at the ground or their missals. It’s also tough to show a bow when you’re already reading a card. What are you supposed to do, look up and then look down at the card and then up again? Just saying.

If you’re doing it properly while reading along, your book or card will be touching the floor - we aren’t talking about a mini-head-bob, here, but a profound (deep, waist folded over as completely as possible) bow.

 

[SgtSchultz]

I notice that too, people don’t bow and some barely want to genuflect or bow before the host in the communion line (and I realize that some people have arthritis or joint problems, etc).

Maybe if they built churches with altar rails then everyone would still kneel. This is partly the fault of modernist architects.

It also doesn’t help when the priests allow people to switch back and forth between singing various Mass settings (without announcing the page number where the music can be found in the hymnal) and reciting with no music. This is confusing. Far be it from me to criticize a priest of the Lord Jesus, but honestly–the way to help people learn something is to repeat and repeat and repeat endlessly, not pull the rug out and leave them falling.

…]

My personal feeling is that the priest should actually pause in the Mass before starting the Gloria and say slowly and clearly, “The Gloria may be found on the pew card (or give the page number in the hymnal) . If you have not yet memorized the new setting, please find it now. We are all working towards learning this new setting, and we appreciate your efforts.” And THEN go on and recite the Gloria.

I agree with all of this. It’s difficult that different masses at the same parish switch all the time, and more difficult still that different churches in the same parish, or different parishes in the same diocese, have different ways of doing mass. None of them are ever the same, and it’s so confusing! It’s even harder for someone who wasn’t raised Catholic!