Why are Protestant Ministers who are well educated in the faith Joining the Catholic Church?

[Chancellare]

I do not think you understand.

I’m not a protestant but I defend them like I defend Catholics.

Yes they abandoned a large part but they filled it with new doctrines and concepts that fit there understandings that they believe to be historical. Some of it is done well. If you have a belief, you can make the bible support it. Many of them even refer to the church fathers. So when you change from catholic to protestant you are exchanging because a whole new understanding is there along with a tradition.
Also I think you have to review the reasons for the Reformation. It was not just because they did not like a Pope. It had a lot of reasons both religious and political.

Also I think you should read more. Im not a Protestant, I’m a Catholic that’s converting to Orthodox. I heard the voice of Jesus and he told me the Catholic church is a good start but the full truth is over there.

By the way, have you studied how the Schism with Orthodox church happened and how politically similar it was with that of Protestantism?

 

[JonNC]

=Chancellare;4472581]
For starters, Luther removed seven books from the Old Testament: 1 and 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, and Judith, and parts of two others, Daniel and Esther.

Just a note: Luther’s original translation contained all of these books. Luther maintained, and he was not the first, that while these were good for study and reading, they were not of the same level as the canon. The Lutheran Confessions reference the DC books on a number of occasions.

Not to mention Holy Tradition that are all reflected from the Bible and that were painstakingly developed by Early Fathers but tossed out by Reformers simply because they did not like the Pope then.

A reference please to confirm that Sacred Tradition was “tossed out” simply because they didn’t like the Pope then.

Jon

 

[elvisman]

I think I will just pray for you and for healing in your family. I always feel sorry for a broken family. It makes me think how I have been blessed.

**Thanks! **
I pray for them every day as well - for their return to the fullness of truth.

I will also pray for your return - once you have left of course.

 

[Chancellare]

Just a note: Luther’s original translation contained all of these books. Luther maintained, and he was not the first, that while these were good for study and reading, they were not of the same level as the canon. The Lutheran Confessions reference the DC books on a number of occasions.

Changing the canon of inspired books. That’s what he did. And by whose authority? Clue: every protestant is a pope unto himself.

A reference please to confirm that Sacred Tradition was “tossed out” simply because they didn’t like the Pope then.

The statement is not verbatim reference. Come on, do you need a reference to tell you that Luther’s
Sola Scriptura rejects Catholic Traditions? But you can use the Tracts Apostolic Traditions in this site.

 

[elvisman]

I do not think you understand.

I’m not a protestant but I defend them like I defend Catholics.

Yes they abandoned a large part but they filled it with new doctrines and concepts that fit there understandings that they believe to be historical. Some of it is done well. If you have a belief, you can make the bible support it. Many of them even refer to the church fathers. So when you change from catholic to protestant you are exchanging because a whole new understanding is there along with a tradition.
Also I think you have to review the reasons for the Reformation. It was not just because they did not like a Pope. It had a lot of reasons both religious and political.

Also I think you should read more. Im not a Protestant, I’m a Catholic that’s converting to Orthodox. I heard the voice of Jesus and he told me the Catholic church is a good start but the full truth is over there.

Polaris -
After reading many of your posts, I must say that you sound very confused - and ill-catechized. There is no defense for that because it’s just plain wrong.

What you are defending here is called relativism. Your truth vs. my truth. Truth is truth - you can’t invent new truth.

**The Apostles were Catholic. **
**The Early Fathers were Catholic. **
Catholic was what the Church was referred to since the beginning and it is documented in the 1st century.
St. Irenaeus traced all of the popes in the Catholic Church from the 2nd century all the way back to St. Peter.

**Cardinal John Henry Newman **said that *“To be steeped in history is to cease being protestant.” ***That’s why people are coming to the Church from Protestantism.
**That’s thetruth . . .
**

 

[Chancellare]

Yes they abandoned a large part but they filled it with new doctrines and concepts that fit there understandings that they believe to be historical.

Also I think you should read more. Im not a Protestant, I’m a Catholic that’s converting to Orthodox.

So they tossed out Catholic Doctrines and they filled it with their own. Just like “a pope unto each protestant”.

Don’t you know you cannot do that in Orthodox, that is heavily steeped in Early Fathers and Tradition?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Dear Protestants,

Nearly all of the Protestant ministers now converting to Catholicism were raised in an anti-Catholic atmosphere.

They were very well educated in their own religious beliefs. So it wasn’t as if they didn’t truly know what their particular church believed.

Protestants there are so many, many well educated in faith Protestant Minister Converting to the Catholic Church. Don’t have to believe me google it for yourself! FIND THE TRUTH! and perhaps you protestant will convert as well, thats if the Lord gives you the Grace to do so.

(Q.) Why are Protestant Ministers who are well educated in the faith Joining the Catholic Church? (A.) Jesus Christ is calling them home to the Catholic Church.

Again, google it for yourselves.

God Bless YOU on your Journey HOME!

Ufamtobie

**Gabriel of 12:
Many are of the opinion that the early church fathers confirmed Catholicism to be the True church Jesus built his church upon Peter, to which I can agree.

I am also of the opinion that these wonderful (learned and educated) Protestants converted to the Catholic church, because they learned from history and Truth of what the Catholic church was not, what they had been taught about her teachings and doctrine. I think this is the needle that broke the camels back for them.

I would recommend all other non catholic christians who truly Love God, and want to serve the living Jesus, to search Jesus out in his Church he built upon “Rock” Peter the true teachings of Jesus and the apostles in the Cathoilc church, without bias interpretations. You have nothing to lose but eternal life to gain.

Peace be with you**

 

[ChristianKnight]

Maybe cause they want too? Just cause my minister joins the Catholic faith doesn’t mean I would. If a kid at school jumped off a canyon, why would I?

 

[Chancellare]

Maybe cause they want too? Just cause my minister joins the Catholic faith doesn’t mean I would. If a kid at school jumped off a canyon, why would I?

Kids who don’t know what they’re doing? Sounds like a good analogy for those who don’t follow teaching authority.

 

[allischalmers]

They went out from us. but they were not of us, for if they they had beenof us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out that they might br made manifest that they were not all of us 1John 2;19

 

[ralphinal]

They went out from us. but they were not of us, for if they they had beenof us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out that they might br made manifest that they were not all of us 1John 2;19

Right back atcha, baby

 

[JonNC]

=Chancellare;4473516]Changing the canon of inspired books. That’s what he did. And by whose authority? Clue: every protestant is a pope unto himself.

Who changed it? Is your Bible different now than before? Has Luther’s opinion of the DC books changed what the Catholic Church teaches or believes? Luther couldn’t “change” the Bible for Rome anymore than I could. And anyway, why does the Catholic canon “delete” some of the books in the Orthodox canon?
IOW, the dispute over the canonicity of certain books was going on long before Luther. So when I hear, “Luther changed the Bible”, I think not in the Douay-Rheims, he didn’t.

The statement is not verbatim reference. Come on, do you need a reference to tell you that Luther’s
Sola Scriptura rejects Catholic Traditions? But you can use the Tracts Apostolic Traditions in this site.

No, but that’s not what you said. You said that the reformers tossed out Sacred Tradition simply because they didn’t like the pope. I don’t think their fondness or lack thereof had anything to do with it. By saying so, you make it sound like a schoolyard scrum (though it could be said that both Luther and Leo at times acted like schoolyard brats), when there were deep theological issues involved.

And no, Sola Scriptura does not simply reject Tradition.

Augburg Confession

Article XV: Of Ecclesiastical Usages.

1] Of Usages in the Church they teach that those ought to be observed which may be observed without sin, and which are profitable unto tranquillity and good order in the Church, as particular holy days, festivals, and the like.

2] Nevertheless, concerning such things men are admonished that consciences are not to be burdened, as though such observance was necessary to salvation.

3] They are admonished also that human traditions instituted to propitiate God, to merit grace, and to make satisfaction for sins, are opposed to the Gospel and the doctrine of faith. Wherefore vows and traditions concerning meats and 4] days, etc., instituted to merit grace and to make satisfaction for sins, are useless and contrary to the Gospel.

When Sacred Tradition and traditions are not in conflict with scripture, there is nothing wrong with them.
Jon

 

[Chancellare]

Who changed it? Is your Bible different now than before? Has Luther’s opinion of the DC books changed what the Catholic Church teaches or believes? Luther couldn’t “change” the Bible for Rome anymore than I could. And anyway, why does the Catholic canon “delete” some of the books in the Orthodox canon?

You don’t understand or are simply ignorant on Protestant dispute on Canon of Inspired Books.

No, but that’s not what you said. You said that the reformers tossed out Sacred Tradition simply because they didn’t like the pope. I don’t think their fondness or lack thereof had anything to do with it. By saying so, you make it sound like a schoolyard scrum (though it could be said that both Luther and Leo at times acted like schoolyard brats), when there were deep theological issues involved.

You don’t understand or are simply ignorant of the reason why Protestant reformers stuck to Sola Scriptura.

And no, Sola Scriptura does not simply reject Tradition.

Wrong!

Augburg Confession

When Sacred Tradition and traditions are not in conflict with scripture, there is nothing wrong with them.
Jon

That’s not what Protestants are saying and doing concerning Apostolic Traditions, Church Magisterium and many more.

 

[JonNC]

Originally Posted by JonNC
Who changed it? Is your Bible different now than before? Has Luther’s opinion of the DC books changed what the Catholic Church teaches or believes? Luther couldn’t “change” the Bible for Rome anymore than I could. And anyway, why does the Catholic canon “delete” some of the books in the Orthodox canon?

=Chancellare;4477551]You don’t understand or are simply ignorant on Protestant dispute on Canon of Inspired Books.

No, I’m quite aware, and thanks for the charitable discussion style. What I said was it has had no effect on the Catholic Church, unless I missed something.

Originally Posted by JonNC
No, but that’s not what you said. You said that the reformers tossed out Sacred Tradition simply because they didn’t like the pope. I don’t think their fondness or lack thereof had anything to do with it. By saying so, you make it sound like a schoolyard scrum (though it could be said that both Luther and Leo at times acted like schoolyard brats), when there were deep theological issues involved.

You don’t understand or are simply ignorant of the reason why Protestant reformers stuck to Sola Scriptura.

A non-response.

And no, Sola Scriptura does not simply reject Tradition.

Wrong!

helsinki.fi/~risaarin/lutortjointtext.html#scri

1. Regarding the relation of scripture and Tradition, for centuries there seemed to have been a deep difference between Orthodox and Lutheran teaching. Orthodox hear with satisfaction the affirmation of the Lutheran theologians that the formula “sola scriptura” was always intended to point to God’s revelation, God’s saving act through Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit, and therefore to the holy Tradition of the church, as expressed in this paper, against human traditions that darken the authentic teaching in the church.

For Lutherans, sola scriptura does not simply reject tradition. It requires that tradition not conflict with scripture.

That’s not what Protestants are saying and doing concerning Apostolic Traditions, Church Magisterium and many more

I’ve already quoted the Augsburg Confession here. What other protestants do is up to them.

Jon

 

[Chancellare]

For Lutherans, sola scriptura does not simply reject tradition. It requires that tradition not conflict with scripture.

I’ve already quoted the Augsburg Confession here. What other protestants do is up to them.

Jon

I apologize if I used uncharitable style.

However there are 2 things that you may consider:

1. Sola Scriptura is a doctrine introduced for the purpose of attacking the Teaching Office of the Church. Either you follow it or not. If you do, you must accept all its consequences, including the ones you disavow about not in conflict with Scripture. If not, you can’t be a Protestant any more than a black swan.
2. The Augsburg Confession addressed the abuses of bishops and accused the Pope of complicity in the execution of ecclesiastical authority. But in the process used its own interpretation of Scriptures to attack the entire Church without distinction between Human Traditions and Holy/Apostolic Traditions which were painstakingly discerned by Early Fathers from Scriptures. Almost all of the substantive reformation issues raised were clarified at Trent 33 years later.

 

[ufamtobie]

They went out from us. but they were not of us, for if they they had beenof us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out that they might br made manifest that they were not all of us 1John 2;19

Hi there Allischalmers,

FYI the Baptist church did not exist when the bible verse (1 John 2:19) above was written.

Ufamtobie

 

[avenger]

Mirror,

Truth= Jesus! Now with that being said, Jesus Christ bless you on your Journey Home to Truth!

Ufamtobie

Correct, Truth=Jesus, not Truth=Institution

 

[LilyM]

Correct, Truth=Jesus, not Truth=Institution

Aah, but Jesus certainly = institution. Firstly the church (not churches and not undiferentiated believers) is His body, scripture tells us so.

Secondly He said to the Apostles ‘who hears you hears me’ - how do we hear the Apostles today? Not all of what they taught was written, for sure, but we must hear and accept it all.

The way we hear them (and Him) today is through their successors by laying on of hands. We know that Matthias was appointed and laid hands on to succeed to Judas’ apostolic office - and with it he took on this apostolic charism of speaking in Christ’s name.

He and the other apostles in their turn appointed others to succeed to their Apostolic office. And so on in unbroken and traceable line down to our own Catholic bishops.

 

[redeemedbyJesus]

I don’t think people leaving one church to go to a different church proves that church to be the “right church” at all.

I know protestants go to catholicism and vice versa… but truth is not weighed by how many leave and how many arrive on our doorsteps. Isn’t Islam the biggest religion currently? Going by your standard, we should all assume the muslims have the truth and convert immediately.

 

[CWBetts]

I don’t think people leaving one church to go to a different church proves that church to be the “right church” at all.

I know protestants go to catholicism and vice versa… but truth is not weighed by how many leave and how many arrive on our doorsteps. Isn’t Islam the biggest religion currently? Going by your standard, we should all assume the muslims have the truth and convert immediately.

Christianity is the biggest.The only way Isla, can be considered the biggest is if you take all sects of islam together, while splitting Christianity into sects.