Why are protestants afraid of the word "saint"?

[ThereseMarie]

ThereseMarie;2750197:

Amen Sister

Orthodoxy expresses it so succinctly and is one of the most beautiful concepts I have ever come across.

I went to a Byzantine Mass last month on the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos. I cried through the entire liturgy.

 

[brosam]

*

Agree with everything you have said.

But God the Son is present in God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. God is a co-equal Trinity. So by definition the Mother of God the Son Incarnate is also God the Son Infinite and by definition the rest of the Trinity.

God the Father has no humanity. But He is manifested in the Incarnate Humanity of His Son Jesus said ‘to see me is to see the Father’ in other words: the Father is manifested in the Son.As we say in that great Epiphany hymn: ‘God in man made manifest’

Incredible and awesome though it is, but the uncreated eternal unfathomable awesome omnipresent God paradoxically also has a creature He can call ‘Mother’!

That is one of the reasons why we pay such great honour to Mary, not just for the flesh she bore, as if that were not enough but also His relationship to the rest of the Holy Trinity: MARY THE MOTHER OF GOD

That also elevates Mary beyond the mother of mere Incarnate Flesh. Now that really is awesome *

A polytheist modalist.

Hmmm…

 

[brosam]

Because you cannot use the Scriptures against the Church whose Scriptures they are.

I disagree. As a member of the one true church that Christ founded, I use God’s word to defend sound doctrine, thus defending the church.

Jesus Himself said of Issac Moses and Abraham: ‘God is God of the living not of the dead!’

May I ask, then, why the Bible says that Jesus Christ is the Lord of the living and the dead?

In addition, who are the people the Bible calls “the dead in Christ”?

and ‘everyone is infact alive to God’

And dead to us.

 

[Harpazo]

Sixtus;2750076:

A polytheist modalist.

Hmmm…

You clearly cannot come up with anything against proof Catholics give you, so you poor out more drivel and insist on your narrow-minded view of Catholicism. Why is this so?

I’ve seen you do this throughout your stay here. Whenever you can’t answer a question you either ignore it, or come up with a common misconception and label it as Catholic dogma. I just don’t get it.

Pace e Bene
Andrew

 

[brosam]

My friend, why do you talk to us as if we aren’t even people? Constantly I’ve seen you refer to us as “the Roman Catholic.” Why such animosity in your posts?

Calling Roman Catholics “Roman Catholics” is animosity?

What should I call you? The hot dog vendors?

It’s rather quite simple, and for you to deny one aspect of it, means you deny the Divinity of Christ, Our Lord.

And for you to believe it means that you believe polytheism.

Mary bore Jesus in her womb
Jesus is God
Mary is the Mother of God

Is God the Father not also God?

God the Holy Spirit?

Is Mary also their mother?

 

[Sabda]

Did Mary actually give birth to God? I think that the logical answer is no based on the Bible saying that God always was and always will be. John 1:1 says that in the beginning was the Word and it goes on to say that the Word was God. Jesus became incarnate from the virgin Mary as the creed says but why do so many still call her the mother of God?

Just so this doesn’t get lost, since it doesn’t appear anyone has addressed it.

Luke 1:

41
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,
42
cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
43
And how does this happen to me, **that the mother of my Lord **14 should come to me?

Footnote:
14 [43] Even before his birth, Jesus is identified in Luke as the Lord.

Interestingly enough here is how the Interlinear Bible translates it.

Luke 1:43 it says

“Mother of the Master of me toward me”.

The Holy Spirit gave Mary this title, we did not. We are humbly acknowledging the fact that the Holy Spirit did give her this title. Who are we to argue with God?

 

[andzy]

If the Roman Catholic is going to claim that Mary is the “mother of God”, then they must either claim that Mary is also the mother of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, or they’re preaching polytheism.

Here is a quote from a Bible-alone Protestant in some earlier discussion:

Hmm… okay, let’s do the math. Most Catholics and Protestants I know believe Jesus was the Son of God, the Word of God, God in the flesh. If they are truly Christian they believe He was conceived of Mary and the Holy Spirit, thus had two natures (the God man). If then both of these are believed true Jesus is both the son of Mary and the son of God, so there is no issue with saying Mary bore the Son of God. Am I missing something.

And as also Luke 1:43 shows us, it is completely Scriptural teaching. Who am I to reject this teaching given to us by God?

 

[ThereseMarie]

*QUOTE=brosam;2750506]

A polytheist modalist.

Hmmm…

To believe in the Trinity is not polytheism. It is a mystery difficult for mere mortals to understand.

My husband had a great point last night after reading some of the arguments about calling Mary the Mother of God. He said, “If you spent as much time praying to the Blessed Mother as you are spending arguing on that web site, you’d probably get alot further… Seems like the early Christians settled a lot of stuff for us already.” Hmmm… He’s right. The early Christians were AWESOME. Brother Sam, have you read any of the early Fathers’ of the Church writings? AWE-inspiring to say the least!

So I am signing off the Theotokos debate, and am off to Adoration this morning for some one on one time with my Lord. While there, I will ask His Most Pure Mother for her intercession and help.

 

[Zooey]

Brosam: Your knowledge of Scripture as witnessed in your contributions to these threads is, to put it charitably, inadequate.

I would have said Brosam’s knowledge is “abysmally lacking”, but you’re a much nicer person than I am.

If the Roman Catholic is going to claim that Mary is the “mother of God”, then they must either claim that Mary is also the mother of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, or they’re preaching polytheism.

Now, Brewmax, they’re going to accuse me of Arianism and I’ll get to refute that, too.

[SIGN1]
Nah, that would be the wrong heresy; the name you’re looking for is:
Nestorius!! Nestorius!!
http://bestsmileys.com/halloween1/13.gif
[/SIGN1]

 

[mercygate]

Sixtus;2750076:

I understand all of what you said here except for the fact that God was not created. How could human flesh give birth to God? Jesus always was, because he is God. John 1 says this clearly. Mary was chosen for Jesus to become incarnate from.

Why not take this long-settled 4th century heresy over to a thread where it would be on topic?

For Catholics and the Orthodox, the matter is a done deal. We can repose in the peace that Christ has spoken by the guidance of the Holy Spirit in His Church.

 

[lak611]

Calling Roman Catholics “Roman Catholics” is animosity?

What should I call you? The hot dog vendors?

We are Catholics, not “Roman Catholics”. We are members of the Latin Rite, the Byzantine Rite, the Maronite Rite, the Melkite Rite, etc. All of these Western and Eastern Rites make up the Catholic Church. There is no part of the Catholic Church that is called “Roman Catholic”(the proper term is Latin Rite), and to exclude the Eastern Catholics is wrong because they are fully part of the Catholic Church.

 

[lak611]

BrewMax;2750217:

Why not take this long-settled 4th century heresy over to a thread where it would be on topic?

For Catholics and the Orthodox, the matter is a done deal. We can repose in the peace that Christ has spoken by the guidance of the Holy Spirit in His

Church.

I gave a link to brosam in one of my earlier posts. There is a thread discussing the Nestorian heresy. I have not checked to see if he has posted in that thread.

 

[BrewMax]

We are Catholics, not “Roman Catholics”. We are members of the Latin Rite, the Byzantine Rite, the Maronite Rite, the Melkite Rite, etc. All of these Western and Eastern Rites make up the Catholic Church. There is no part of the Catholic Church that is called “Roman Catholic”(the proper term is Latin Rite), and to exclude the Eastern Catholics is wrong because they are fully part of the Catholic Church.

I always understood it to be “Roman Catholic” because this is the seat of Pontifus Maximus and the word catholic refers to more denominations than just Roman Catholic. Just my understanding of it.

 

[lak611]

Why not take this long-settled 4th century heresy over to a thread where it would be on topic?

For Catholics and the Orthodox, the matter is a done deal. We can repose in the peace that Christ has spoken by the guidance of the Holy Spirit in His Church.

Once again, for brosam, here is the thread to discuss the Nestorian heresy.

 

[ThereseMarie]

I always understood it to be “Roman Catholic” because this is the seat of Pontifus Maximus and the word catholic refers to more denominations than just Roman Catholic. Just my understanding of it.

Mine, too. (If I am wrong, forgive my ignorance.) I like saying “Roman Catholic” too since my husband and children are Italian American - kind of a play on words.

 

[mercygate]

Mine, too. (If I am wrong, forgive my ignorance.) I like saying “Roman Catholic” too since my husband and children are Italian American - kind of a play on words.

Cute! but watch out for that “Pontifus”!

 

[ThereseMarie]

Cute! but watch out for that “Pontifus”!

Perhaps Summus Pontifex Ecclesiae Universalis would be more correct (???)

 

[mercygate]

Perhaps Summus Pontifex Ecclesiae Universalis would be more correct (???)

:yup: I think so.

 

[SyCarl]

We are Catholics, not “Roman Catholics”. We are members of the Latin Rite, the Byzantine Rite, the Maronite Rite, the Melkite Rite, etc. All of these Western and Eastern Rites make up the Catholic Church. There is no part of the Catholic Church that is called “Roman Catholic”(the proper term is Latin Rite), and to exclude the Eastern Catholics is wrong because they are fully part of the Catholic Church.

It is difficult to understand at times though when you drive by churches that clearly call themselves Roman Catholic. Not all Catholic churches do this but I have seen quite a few.

 

[mercygate]

It is difficult to understand at times though when you drive by churches that clearly call themselves Roman Catholic. Not all Catholic churches do this but I have seen quite a few.

Yes, you are correct – as I mentioned earlier, even my Archdiocese calls itself “Roman” Catholic. It’s a little like the word “cop.” Started out derogatory but morphed into standard use.

When I was Anglican, I used “Roman” to drive home the point that the “Romans” weren’t the ONLY Catholics. Now that I’m on this side of the Tiber, the sun has swung around the flagpole, and I no longer say “Roman” when identifying myself; nobody gets confused.

This came up here only because brosam was so snide, making a distinction between “Roman Catholics” and “Christians.” Ugh! – just one breath away from using the term “Romanism” or “The Roman Catholic Cult” or “the Romish heresy” or “Papists” or “Popery.” Come to think of it, he missed some fine opportunities there! I think I’ll get me one o’ them t-shirts that says "Papist – and PROUD of it!

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.