Why are Protestants confused by Gays?

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I’m curious here, and maybe the various Prots can answer: how does your church re-read the Bible or re-interpret the anti-homosexual activity passages in the Bible?

To me, it’s pretty clear, in black and white, that this kind of stuff isn’t much favored.
 
Grace & Peace!
I’m curious here, and maybe the various Prots can answer: how does your church re-read the Bible or re-interpret the anti-homosexual activity passages in the Bible?

To me, it’s pretty clear, in black and white, that this kind of stuff isn’t much favored.
Hi Maxply. Some folks, right off the bat, would object to your assumption that the passages in question are specifically “anti-homosexual activity.” The reason is three-fold.

1–The human authors of scripture did not have the 19th century understanding of sexuality which gave rise to the term “homosexual”, nor did they have in mind our 20th and 21st century notions of what that term means. They could not be addressing homosexuality as we understand it.

2–Context. Mentions of homosexually-oriented activity almost exclusively take place in contexts which discuss either a) gentile culture; or b) gentile religious practice. Which suggests to many scholars that context is key–homosexual activity is wrong because it takes place in the context of gentile worship (which included cult prostitution) or is a feature of gentile culture–which culture as a whole is considered unsavory. This accords with Paul’s references in Romans which serve a rhetorical point–this is what gentiles do because of misguided religion, but you Jewish people, what is your excuse? In other words, the unsavory context makes the activity unsavory.

3–Translations. Many words translated in some Bibles as “homosexual” could not possibly carry that meaning to the ancient writers (given point 1 above) and are so translated given a particular present cultural bias. A word like “malakoi” which has been variously translated “effeminate” or “sexual pervert” or “male prostitute” means soft, and in other Greek writings refers to a quality of softness (such as cloth, or freshly tilled soil); a person of loose morals, or one who has no self-control; or a weak possibly effeminate person. Literally, it could mean “soft people”. Given the context in Paul’s epistles, libertinism is the implication.

Some, though, would translate malakoi as “male receptive partner” based on a reading of arsenokoites as “male active partner”. That seems to suggest that “arsenokoites” would be a technical term that Greek audiences would be familiar with. It’s not. The first real attested use of arsenokoites is Paul, as (some have suggested) it looks like he’s attempting to use it to encapsulate in one word the verse in Leviticus which refers to “men lying with men as with women” (though literally the Hebrew refers to “men lying the lyings of women”). Literally, arsenokoites means “men who lie down”. It’s possible he’s referring to prostitutes. It’s possible he’s referring to the active male partner. It’s possible he’s referring to any number of things.

Some refer malakoi to pederasty, and arsenokoites to male prostitution. There’s no clear scholarly consensus, however.

What’s clear is this: male prostitution, either as a prostitute or as a client, is wrong; as is pederasty. Temple prostitution, likewise, is wrong.

Stretching it a bit (that is, ignoring context), the most that can be said is either that treating your male partner as a woman is wrong, or anal sex is wrong.

Based on these verses, however, we cannot say that loving homosexual relationships are wrong in themselves.

I hope this helps.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!
 
The same reason Protestants are “confused” about divorce, sex outside of marriage, abortion, contraception, and euthanasia. They simply toss out biblical teaching when it is inconvenient.
 
… we cannot say that loving homosexual relationships are wrong in themselves.
Sorry, I have to disagree. Jewish and Christian teaching has always been that homosexual relationships are immoral and sinful.

(Isa 5:20) Woe to you that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The truth does not change!
 
The same reason Protestants are “confused” about divorce, sex outside of marriage, abortion, contraception, and euthanasia. They simply toss out biblical teaching when it is inconvenient.
That’s a bit of a generalization. Most of the Protestants I know are pretty close to the Catholic Church’s teachings on moral issues. (except for contraception)
 
Generalization, not really. Most Protestant denominations don’t even blink about divorce or contraception. More and more, protestants are turning their head on abortion and homosexuality. Euthanasia is also making strong gains in Protestantism.

The Catholic Church seems to stand alone against the tide of popular moral whimsy.
 
Deo Volente makes a great post there and gives a good exegesis of the relevant Bible passages, 100% correct.

Within Catholic theology there is also a position that stresses the unitive nature of sexuality over the procreative nature, although it’s not dominant currently.
 
Deo Volente makes a great post there and gives a good exegesis of the relevant Bible passages, 100% correct.

Within Catholic theology there is also a position that stresses the unitive nature of sexuality over the procreative nature, although it’s not dominant currently.
There is nothing “unitive” about homosexual activity - unity is physically impossible between persons of the same sex. Sodomy between males is the nearest possible approximation of unity between homosexuals, but Deo Volente has shown us in his post above that even the most liberal interpretation of the Scriptures shows clearly that sodomy is forbidden by God.

Procreation is also physically impossible between partners of the same sex - I am stating the obvious, because it seems to me that what may be obvious to me isn’t necessarily obvious to others.
 
Catholic theology holds that sexual intercourse must be unitive and procreative. Start stressing one over the other and see where it goes. Try not to be too one sided.
 
Catholic theology holds that sexual intercourse must be unitive and procreative. Start stressing one over the other and see where it goes. Try not to be too one sided.
It doesn’t even matter, since in the case of homosexuals, neither is even physically possible.
 
Homosexuality goes against Natural Law. The Catholic Church has not wavered on seeing homosexuality as immoral and sinful.

Please do not try to insert your own teaching in place of what the Church teaches. To do so causes scandal.

For true, orthodox teaching, look to the Church.

Look at Pope Pauls encyclical Humanae Vitae

Union and Procreation
  1. This particular doctrine, often expounded by the magisterium of the Church, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act.
The reason is that the fundamental nature of the marriage act, while uniting husband and wife in the closest intimacy, also renders them capable of generating new life—and this as a result of laws written into the actual nature of man and of woman. And if each of these essential qualities, the unitive and the procreative, is preserved, the use of marriage fully retains its sense of true mutual love and its ordination to the supreme responsibility of parenthood to which man is called. We believe that our contemporaries are particularly capable of seeing that this teaching is in harmony with human reason.
 
Catholic theology holds that sexual intercourse must be unitive and procreative. Start stressing one over the other and see where it goes. Try not to be too one sided.
Your not saying that married people should stop having sexual intercourse after they have past their child bearing years.
 
Your not saying that married people should stop having sexual intercourse after they have past their child bearing years.
No. Remember Sarah, Hannah, and Elizabeth. Obviously they were having sexual relations with their husbands even though they thought they were past their child-bearing years and/or barren.
 
I’m curious here, and maybe the various Prots can answer: how does your church re-read the Bible or re-interpret the anti-homosexual activity passages in the Bible?

To me, it’s pretty clear, in black and white, that this kind of stuff isn’t much favored.
If a person is to follow the traditional interpretation of las against homosexual acts of sex in the bible, then they also must be as strongly against pre-marital sex and adultery. They are all sins of equal magnitude.

I know many people who are very much against homosexal sex… but either engage in pre-marital and/or extramarital sex themselves and/or easily exuse it in others.

It’s all the same sin… sex outside of marriage.
 
I’m curious here, and maybe the various Prots can answer: how does your church re-read the Bible or re-interpret the anti-homosexual activity passages in the Bible?

To me, it’s pretty clear, in black and white, that this kind of stuff isn’t much favored.
Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

You are right it is clear. Those who want to support gay sin, simpy try to redefine terms, for example, a word I can’t remember right now is redefined to be a temple hooker, thus making it the false worship that is wrong. Others will quote a verse about S&G being unfriendly to visitors, but Genesis speaks of sins in plural, not just one type. So, that verse does not rule the gay thing being sin.
 
If a person is to follow the traditional interpretation of las against homosexual acts of sex in the bible, then they also must be as strongly against pre-marital sex and adultery. They are all sins of equal magnitude.
Yes, they are.
I know many people who are very much against homosexal sex… but either engage in pre-marital and/or extramarital sex themselves and/or easily exuse it in others.

It’s all the same sin… sex outside of marriage.
Exactly. 👍
 
Generalization, not really. Most Protestant denominations don’t even blink about divorce or contraception. More and more, protestants are turning their head on abortion and homosexuality. Euthanasia is also making strong gains in Protestantism.

The Catholic Church seems to stand alone against the tide of popular moral whimsy.
Wow, you don’t dislike protestants at all do you… :rolleyes:

This is a MAJOR generalization and I don’t appreciate this. Everyone has the right to their own opinions but let me set you straight on one thing… I have never stepped into a protestant church that taught or gave you the feeling that it was right to divorce, use abortion, or that homosexuality is ok.

Gotta say, I don’t see the love of God nor the understanding that He brings shining through you…
 
I’m curious here, and maybe the various Prots can answer: how does your church re-read the Bible or re-interpret the anti-homosexual activity passages in the Bible?

To me, it’s pretty clear, in black and white, that this kind of stuff isn’t much favored.
I refer you also to my post above… statements like these really don’t do much but push me farther from the catholic church if this is the consensus with catholocism…
 
I refer you also to my post above… statements like these really don’t do much but push me farther from the catholic church if this is the consensus with catholocism…
When I was a child we were at times the only Catholics living in protestant communities.
The protestants generally would not allow their children to play with us. I as a child was told by the parents of these children that I was a devil worshiper, that Catholics are evil and so on. It was really awful. As an adult I lived in Amarillo for a few years… the Christian book stores removed all Catholic books from their book shelves and replaced them with anti-Catholic literature. Again it was hateful and awful.

You also might want to take a look at all the very hateful, untruthful anti-Catholic literature that comes from the Protestant community that we Catholics have to somehow deal with.

I don’t hold the vast majority of Protestants responsible for the actions of these few who were obviously not very good people. In the same light, you should not hold all Catholics responsible when one catholic makes a statement that offends you.
 
I don’t hold the vast majority of Protestants responsible for the actions of these few who were obviously not very good people. In the same light, you should not hold all Catholics responsible when one catholic makes a statement that offends you.
Why not? When a lot of catholics hold me accountable just because I am what they refer to as a protestant? If I say I am not catholic I am automatically a heretic protesting against Christ Himself and in some cases have been told that I hate Christ. Even on here. Why not? When even as a baptized christian I would be denied certain rights within the catholic church just because I have never gone through a class… Why not? Because even though I do not find the catholic church evil I have been told that because I am what you would call protestant, my belief system is led by Satan.

You guys aren’t the only ones who get tired of the other half not understanding and just making generalizations. I just don’t want to be associated with any church that breeds this kind of dislike for brothers and sisters in Christ. I would leave any ‘protestant’ church if it spoke out against catholics too…
 
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